I've been lurking for several months, but this is the first time I'm sitting down to write out my experience. To tell you the truth, it's a little daunting but I'm hoping for some support or at the minimum a listening ear from those who can relate.
My Husband and I have been together for 13 years, married for going on 6 years. Throughout our relationship H has always battled depression off and on. He refuses to seek any type of individual counseling and has never been one to really take care of himself as far as regular doctor visits, dentist visits, etc. He has also struggled with addiction off and on. I believe him to be an alcoholic, he claims he's not. I grew up with alcoholic parents so I'm not new to addiction. Because of his excessive alcohol use and marijuana use I was hesitant to start trying for a family. He will go out with friends or coworkers and not come home when he says he's going to & then be out til 2 or 3 in the morning. & I had told him that I was scared that he would maintain the same behaviors even if we had a baby. I did not mean for that to be offensive to him, but I know that me telling him that really bothered him. His behavior would change for maybe a week, and then he would be back to the same old song and dance.
His mother passed away about 18 months ago, and this behavior escalated to the point where he would no longer even come home right after work. He would go straight to the bars to hang out and drink. In April I became so agitated that he was never home. I was taking care of all the household chores on my own and felt like he wasn't contributing at all. We shared locations on our phones with each other at the time and it all came to a head when I saw he was over at a friends' house when he told me he was just going to make a quick run to the grocery store. I immediately called him out and asked why he didn't tell me he was going to go hang out with his friend. He said we "needed to talk" when he got home. He did not come home until 1:00 in the morning, woke me up, and then proceeded to tell me that he's not happy and we need to separate and start looking at divorce. He was drunk, so admittedly I didn't believe anything he was saying, it's not like he hasn't said mean things before when he's been drinking.
Come to find out, he did mean it. He went to stay at his parent's house for the rest of that week, and then at the end of the week he came back home and stayed. When we talked, H said he didn't feel loved or supported by me. That I devoted too much time to my career and things I wanted to accomplish in life. Which is a fair statement. I think I had felt so neglected by him that I began pouring myself into other things to keep myself busy. He's upset that we don't have any children yet. We had a sexless marriage for the last several years 1) due to some past trauma I'm working through myself but 2) it's also difficult to want sex when you feel like you're constantly "mom"-ing your spouse. Sex has never been super important to me, but no matter the situation, I wish I would have realized sooner how much that hurt him and loved him in the ways he needed/wanted and not how I thought I should love him.
I've been DBing since April. He's been staying at home since April, with a few mentions from time to time about how he needs to/wants to move out. I know it's controversial about whether you should or shouldn't sleep with your partner during this time, but our sex life has blossomed over the past several months. Quite literally never been better. He's made several mentions about how much he sees I've changed over the past several months and how amazing it's been. He tells me everyday how much he loves me, how much he will always love me. He texts me throughout the day everyday. Yet, he still seems very much confused about what he wants. He told me again at the beginning of this week that he's planning on moving out at the end of the week. I'm devastated, and to be totally honest kind of panicking. I feel like DBing works so much better if they are around to see the changes. I know I have to let him go to try to figure things out on his own. But I also know the few friends and coworkers he's talked to about our situation he probably hasn't painted our relationship in the most truthful light, so even if he does miss me they are all going to be in his ear convincing him to not reach out. It just [censored]. We've had our ups and downs, but I truly love this man and want to be able to work all this out. I know he's in a fog right now though and I can't change his mind. Only he can. I'm just not sure where to go now once he moves out.
Journaling: As much as I miss him and want things to work out, I'm angry today. He hasn't once taken accountability for his role in all of this.
Be aware that’s unlikely to ever happen.
I’m six years post bomb-drop with a WAW who has since moved house 7 times, had several new men, and spent every waking minute trying to defame me on social media - despite her initiating an affair and then cleaning out the house and kids.
And not once has there been a shred of remorse or self realisation.
People who decide to rip their family apart want it to be someone else’s fault, and they’ll play all sorts of mental gymnastics to convince themselves and others it was your fault.
My advice - you need to get yourself to a position where you don’t need him to take accountability. Accept it’s likely never going to happen, and then you won’t waste time thinking about it.
So sorry that you have to join us here! The big thing to remember is to have patience with yourself. It takes time to master your emotions and the techniques that work for you. And those techniques will only work at certain times, when the wind is blowing just right! You may have days where the connection is strong, only to be followed up by being accused of gaslighting.... like DnJ firmly states, keep your expectations at 0. Enjoy those moments as they come, but expect nothing to come out of it. You seem to be on the ball with that!
As for going dark, you'll know when the time is right. Hopefully it doesn't get to that, but you will know.... you'll do it for your own sanity. Do not feel bad about it, it is part of self care. Just like he needs his time and space, there will be times when you need yours too.
To me, I liken the spiraling to riding a malfunctioning carousel, until one day you get thrown off.... and that's just the you part.... this carousel was in a car on your S' rollercoaster! You'll begin to see things clearer, and be able to stand on solid ground again. Like S' journey, it'll take as long as it takes.
In some ways I do feel like its a positive baby step in that he's seemed to be softening over the past week. Reaching out to me more, hanging around for a little bit when he dropped the dog off after I got back from my work trip, an ongoing text conversation that has spanned the last few days. We take our time to respond back and forth to each other, but the fact that he hasn't just ignored it like he has in the past is a small win. Today I choose to be grateful for that.
Chances are this is more cake-eating more than anything. He wants to have his life and yet still have access to you.
That is not to say that he doesn't have feelings or isn't confused... but you enabling the behavior isn't good either. 1st - it's painful for you... but also 2nd - if he was to have a "wake-up" call - you are extending that time line for that realization indefinitely if you keep things the status quo.
Having 0 expectations only happens when you detach. From the spouse, from the outcome... and that is going to take time.
One of the hardest things to grasp about ourselves is that we see every little good thing that happens as "hope". At the same time - we fear that in any little way that we choose ourselves - we push away our spouse.
And those two things muddy the water so much to see things clearly. Denial is very strong.
And I won't sugar coat it - working towards understanding and fighting it... and "allowing" the spouse to live his life... hurts like h3ll!.
That's why being busy and GALing is a good thing. Not just for your mental health - but it helps create the boundary for YOU to stop enabling behavior that although feels good short term - long term does nothing good for you, him, or the marriage.
Be so busy before your trip so that there is NO time for him. That way when you say you can't - you literally cannot.
Whatever adjustments you make follow it with "I heard you when you said you wanted your own life. I am supporting that decision by acting accordingly".
There is no way that doesn't create push back or conflict for him. We usually say to be prepared to for them to "spit venom".
I know it's hard to understand but you can't worry about if he leaves your or marriage... he already has.
Now is the time to start asking yourself how to better take care of you.
I found out there is at least an EA going on, possibly a PA. He has at least admitted to an EA, but denies a PA. My trust is obliterated so I don't believe anything at this point. I don't even know what to do. Everything feels hopeless at this point.
I'm sorry to hear this JJ. I wish it wasn't the case but so often it is.
So what to do is to take extremely good care of yourself in this time. It can be a rather difficult concept to grasp as there are pretty intense emotions flying everywhere.
Some thing to understand now is that all of H's positive messages... aren't really about loving you... at least not in the way you are hoping. Perhaps there is still some love or perhaps there is some confusion... there can also be guilt and shame and "showing up" helps alleviate that.
Regardless of the reason - please try to remember that trying to understand why... is a cheeseless tunnel for you. You won't get the answers your seek... no matter how hard you look.
Seeing that you have alot of emotions going on - a recommendation I have is for YOU to give some space to H and the situation... as a form of self care. I will tell you that the part of you that fears losing the relationship will make this seem impossible. Especially if your H then uses it as "evidence" that he made the right choice.
The control that your H says you have over his decision AND the control you think you have to save this relationship by responding from a fearful place - this is an illusion. Don't take the bait on either. This is a practice rather than a one time deal. You will have to make this decision over and over. Managing the anxiety that comes with letting go takes time.
Please remember:
You didn't cause this. You can't change it. You can't control it.
Pull way back. Allow your H to feel the consequences of his decisions. Be honest with yourself that he may be okay with those consequences. His growth and journey are not your responsibility.
For now... breathe... cry.... yell... allow those emotions to flow with whom you feel safe (probably not H). They are very hard emotions to handle and you deserve nothing but compassion and kindness when they come.
Welcome to the boards. I am glad you made the daunting step of sharing your story and experience. I am going to copy the welcomed post at the end of this. Lots of useful links and information in there.
Just to confirm, married six years, together 13, with no kids. What are your ages? Rent, mortgage, own? House? Yard? Or apartment?
It appears you’ve read Divorce Remedy. And have been implementing DB since April. And a caution for you, do not share DR, DBing techniques, this site, and such with H. He will likely see it as you attempting to manipulate him, and he will pull back, or even run in the opposite direction.
Originally Posted by Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
During your relationship you’ve seen H going in and out of depression. By the sounds of it, a more or less constant shadow hanging over him. I’m hesitant to use “battling depression” as H’s behaviour and looking after himself suggests more just ignore and denial. No IC, no doctor, no dentist, is unfortunately rather common. People do not seem to reach out until they’ve hit bottom.
H’s alcohol and marijuana use you describe as excessive. From what you’ve shared it does sound like an addiction and/or alcoholism. As you well know, given your upbringing, that is a tough disease.
Originally Posted by jaejae
His mother passed away about 18 months ago, and this behaviour escalated to the point where he would no longer even come home right after work. He would go straight to the bars to hang out and drink.
The death of his Mom would escalate his denial and hiding of his pain. Escaping by sitting at barstool will not work. However, H will not see that right now. In fact, he’ll likely fight against such an epiphany.
Originally Posted by jaejae
I've been DBing since April. He's been staying at home since April, with a few mentions from time to time about how he needs to/wants to move out.
H moved back after his one week living with a friend. It’s pretty normal H mentioning still wanting to move out. He is confused and not facing things.
Give H lots of time and space. Lots!
Keep pressure to a minimum. And minimize R-talks.
Originally Posted by jaejae
I know it's controversial about whether you should or shouldn't sleep with your partner during this time, but our sex life has blossomed over the past several months. Quite literally never been better.
Good. Do more of what works and less of what doesn’t.
My advice/suggest is: no cake eating. Which means, if H is having an affair, then no sex.
At the moment, it sounds like H is not embroiled in an affair. So enjoy.
Originally Posted by jaejae
He's made several mentions about how much he sees I've changed over the past several months and how amazing it's been.
Do make those positive changes - for you. That way they’ll become permanent.
Originally Posted by jaejae
He tells me everyday how much he loves me, how much he will always love me. He texts me throughout the day everyday. Yet, he still seems very much confused about what he wants. He told me again at the beginning of this week that he's planning on moving out at the end of the week.
H’s confusion is ever present.
Originally Posted by jaejse
I'm devastated, and to be totally honest kind of panicking. I feel like DBing works so much better if they are around to see the changes. I know I have to let him go to try to figure things out on his own.
Breathe.
Give H time and space.
You can only control you. Your thoughts, actions, and reactions.
H is confused. And you wisely realize H needs to figure out his mess. Remember, you didn’t break him, therefore you cannot fix him.
I know it’s difficult. Dial your expectations down to zero. H stated he wants to move out this week.
When you expect something unwanted, you will unknowingly obsess and give off vibes, small behaviours and mannerisms, that fertilize the very thing you do not want to occur. As difficult as it is, dial that to zero.
Having no expectations, is like most of the advice here, for you and your mental/emotional health. No expectations also gives you your best chance, by you not subconsciously pushing H more towards the door.
Time and space. Focus on you. Let H do what he is going to do. Hopefully, he remains at home.
Originally Posted by jaejae
I know he's in a fog right now though and I can't change his mind. Only he can. I'm just not sure where to go now once he moves out.
Absolutely. H is in a fog. Be kind and cordial. You don’t place boulders on his path, yet don’t pave it in gold either.
H hasn’t moved out. He might not. Or he might. You cannot control H’s choice. However, you can do for you. Speak with a lawyer.
See a L. Have a consult. This is only for information. You need not act on anything right now. However, if things go really sideways, you will be prepared. Knowledge is power. And like DB, do not tell or share that you’ve seen a L, nor what you learned, with H.
Learn your rights and responsibilities in all this. Discover the best case, worst case, and likely case if things go off the rails.
That probably sounds anti-DB. It’s not.
You are on two paths. One is emotional and healing. The other is business. Keep them separate. And when dealing with business, be business-like.
The business stuff is pretty straightforward, it’s the emotional/healing journey we will spend the bulk of our time with.
I look forward to conversing with you.
DnJ
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Welcome to the board.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:
Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.
When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.
Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.
Post on other people’s thread to give support.
Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL).
DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
Absolutely will try to make myself less available moving forward. I think the reason I really struggle with this is that sometimes it seems like "more of the same" from me. Before the BD I was very focused on my work and hobbies and did tend to ignore him when he was home. So I do wonder if being around could be a 180 on my part?
I do understand your idea and worry of displaying ‘more of the same’. My two cents is not to jump at every opportunity and time H wants to interact. Letting his calls go to voice mail and responding on your time; meeting up maybe every third time he proposes (being busy otherwise), though not making a pattern either; are some examples.
The 180 would be, as you said, not ignoring him. So, for those time you do reach back or reach out, be engaged. Which from what you’ve shared it sounds like you are. Listing and validating where appropriate, while giving time and space is a bit of tight rope to learn to walk.
Originally Posted by jaejae
But the last two days I've really been hung up on the comment he made about having to have tough conversations soon. I didn't take the bait while he was here, but I've been down and upset thinking about what that means. My mind is telling me it's over. He's done, he does not see any way to mend this marriage. Which leads me to feel frantic, desperate, clingy.
Good on you not reacting/reaching out to H due to your emotions. Frantic, desperate, clingy, wouldn’t come cross very well. Likely would propel him away. Strong and stable has a better chance at fostering interest within H and his addled mind and heart.
I know how defeating it is to hear things like the ‘tough conversations soon’. Envision a big red stop sign! Stop your runaway thoughts.
You realize H talking about reconciling would be a tough conversation for him as well. We do tend to be drawn to the worst case scenarios when facing things like that statement. Point is, you don’t know and catastrophizing - although normal - just leads to you reenforcing those dreadful feelings.
Now, yes, H is likely referring to the logistics of separating. Doesn’t change anything. Let him. Leave the heavy-lifting to him. You don’t place boulders in his path, yet you don’t need to pave it either.
Separating is work. It takes effort. Most of these folks are seeking an easy way out. Leaving the ball in H’s court will likely buy more time. And time is your ally in this. More time for H to feel loss, to burn through his anger and such, more time for him to start feeling emotions more beneficial to your cause - shame, regret, remorse for example. Giving time and space is a big thing.
Also, I figure H’s friend’s offer for him to live there will start getting stale. Pretty sure friend isn’t wanting a long term roommate. And Christmas is coming up. More time and more pressure will be pushing upon H. This is good, when it doesn’t come from you. Remain clear and don’t take any bait. H will try to keep you as the bad guy in his narrative, don’t fall for it. Let him feel the bed he chose to lay in. Remember, rock bottom usually needs to be hit before sincere life changes happen.
Time and space also promotes your healing too. Giving you opportunities to find clarity and you again. It’s quite a journey.
