Hey y'all, lurking for a few months, first time poster. 😉
Soooo.... xh/x and I have been dancing for 27 years. I apologize for the length of the R timeline, but because it's a complicated situation, I feel it's necessary in order to get the advice and 2x4s I need. Plus it might give some insight to how a WAW, and a standing LBS think....
R Timeline
Sept 1998 - Met in college Me 18, him 20: he was suddenly in my friend group and paying a little more attention to me than anyone else, and he caught my eye. I pursued.
April 1999 - Engaged, he moved with me across the country.
2001 - Married (I never really had a burning desire to be married... huge believer in commitment, just not the institution)
2002 - Moved back to be near family when we start ours.
2005 - First son (S1) born, complicated birth followed by (presumably) minor post-partum depression. Working. Starting to feel H was more attentive to work and S... had flirty EA with his friend, boosted my ego but no actual attachment. H was keen on having kids close together, I was not ready but agreed to it (yes, am a major people pleaser!)
Sept 2006 - Miscarriage 1
May 2007 - Miscarriage 2
Nov 2007 - S2 born, HELLP pregnancy. Basically your liver starts shutting down, and you keep going until the absolute last minute.
2008? - Thought I'd be a hero and be a stay at home mom. PPD, big time!
2009- Started gambling when kids were gone for the weekend, as H was working 80+ hour work-weeks: my justification was hoping to win big so that we could afford for him to be home. Obviously, made the situation a million times worse, and H was rarely affectionate, and withdrew.
2009 - Started business he had dreamed about, same reasoning as gambling, but way more control with outcome. We had seen a therapist, and learned about each other's love languages... what a perfect way to mesh our interests. Playground for H, but I ended up running the show. ADHD super focus, so was only partly aware our financial situation wasn't great. H supplied finances, but we never sat down and discussed the matter. Once again, H working all the time, and barely paid attention to me.
2009- New employee, flirty but attraction. As promised, told H was starting to feel something for this guy. He sat by for months as I would cry and say the feelings were getting stronger. Only EA, no PA. Not fighting for me, and my last cry for something from him was our anniversary... we went out for dinner, but he insisted the kids come with us.
End of 2009 - Won award for business, left home next day. Moved in with OM, H finally fought for me. Torn, because still loved H with all my heart, but wouldn't be fair to live with him while carrying on with OM.
2010 - D: Gave him house, van, primary custody of kids (initially he wanted sole, and I would have given him that and the universe out of sheer guilt and shame for what I'd done... OM knocked some sense into me and explained the difference between sole and primary, thankfully!)
2010 - Jan 2017: Excitement of new R wore off quick... quick engagement & agreeing to try for kids because his Dad was dying and would love to see it.... I woke up one day in the next few months, gave my head a good shake, and called off everything...WTF, I was repeating the same pattern that made me someone I didn't recognize the first time! Started slowly detaching from what I at that point had learned was a R with a severe alcoholic. Main reason for not GTFOT sooner... my Dad had said "You've made your bed, now lay in it" Gee, I wonder what one of my childhood traumas were?!?
2009 -end of 2016 - XH stuck around business and watched it all go down... he'd rather stay connected to me as a friend than lose me. Learned later from a mutual friend that in our time apart he went through a very dark time. Was a block away from kids, so went to house every morning to see them, and called every night to say goodnight (in fact, our goodnight ritual STILL goes on to this day, even with them both living under my roof!)
XH and I start sleeping together when I finally had the guts to completely break from OM (he was emotionally abusive, blackmailing me, and manipulative... there was nothing R between us for years at this point)...
2016 - 2024: XH/X and I continue sex, while we live our enmeshed lives... I had my own apartment down the street from the house, and we were together as a family most of that time. XH/H was exactly what I wanted in our marriage, but I was too ashamed to ask if we could try again... and he kept mentioning women he wanted to ask out, and ask my advice, which out of shame I would give. He always mentioned, but never acted. To me, we were together, just in a weird way... everything was there, and better than before, but we were both not all in for our individual reasons (guilt for me, depression for him... he admitted that to me only recently)
2017ish - XH/X moves with kids out to family farm 40 min drive away. I would go there all the time, kids would be with me on weekends.
2019 - His mom and my Dad pass away within months of each other.
2022 - My mom, whom XH/X was much closer to, passes away a month after I move to a place a 16 hour drive away. We see each other every couple of months for school vacations, or me visiting the farm.
2023 - I finally break a nasty habit of mine after watching The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel with him and just spill my guts... I told him how I really felt about him. He was inspired by the show too, but for a different reason (see June 2025), as I found out the next year. Had quit my job at the start of the year after nervous breakdown, so he was helping me out financially... you can see the pattern emerging here... financial anxiety trigger...
Around this time, he found out he had the genetic defect that caused all of his mother and her siblings deaths (Trauma 1 or T1)... looking back, probably when MLC started. We were now closer than we had been since the boys were born... but could see hesitation in calling it a relationship.
Here comes the boom... June & Aug 2024 - Both times we had sex, it was incredibly painful, but I didn't want to say no as it was our only chance to have sex and I didn't want to deprive him. June's attempt was lackluster, and ended with him FIRMLY declaring we weren't together... he laid there as I cried, because I hadn't said anything of the sort in awhile and didn't know where that had come from. Aug was scary... pain was worse, and it was like he was possessed and he was more (respectfully) aggressive and tried things he'd never tried before... and I could see he was frustrated that I wasn't into it... pain and being freaked out about the change in him were certainly a factor. Very cold and distant this time when he told me we were not together... I was full out bawling my eyes out this time... no concern from him again.
S1 moved in with me permanently at this time.
Oct 2024 - XH/X - "Ya, I'm not attracted to you anymore".
Nov 2024 - March 2025 - End up in hospital in Nov because fibroid the size of a grapefruit had started detaching, as well as an internal yeast infection... hence the pain while having sex. As all LBS reason at first, start with GAL and maybe MLCer will want me again. At Xmas we sat on the couch together, stayed up watching movie. No movement towards or away from each other, although I was REALLY hoping so! Afraid I would just jump him, soooo....
March 2025 - A mutual friend of ours (closer to me than XH/X) was thinking about moving out my way, so I suggested he come up with XH/X and visit. Spent a lot of time together, with and without kids...XH/X declined going on outings. Friend and I had started out our friendship just after OM had passed, way way back.... was attracted to him at first, but no interest in anything on his part. We had EA for a few years back then, nothing serious, as my heart was starting to beat again in earnest for XH/X, and the same for me on his side.... however, a friend pointed out that she thought there might of been something between the friend and I at some point,. If she saw that, XH/X would have too. He was moody and outright angrily replied "Ex-husband!" when someone thought he was my husband.
I ended up staying at the farm for a few weeks immediately after that trip to attend my god-daughter's wedding, and I was miserable the whole time because I knew something was rotten in the state of Denmark. He would not hug me. He was driving me to my hotel, and I made a comment that he should play hooky from work and have some fun. He replied "Oh, I do, and I have fun!"... He was an emotional mess when I asked who she was. Turns out he had been having a PA with a 27 year old co-worker... he's 47 at this point. I am under the impression he had been having an EA for a few years with her, due to a quick mention about two girls at his work who were constantly hitting on him....one who hit on everybody, and one who was a bit young for him (back then). I get upset because the only expectation we ever had with each other was to talk if we had feelings for someone else. I get a man has needs, but the age difference and his exclamation "You were never supposed to know about it, because I didn't want to hurt you" ... punch in the gut. Meanwhile, since Xmas he had been veering back to being attentive and closer to pre-MLC him... boy did that revelation feel like a thousand cuts!
April - June 2025 - Lots of angry phone calls both ways, lots of begging and pleading, lots of all the DBing things you are NOT supposed to do... in May I looked into MLC, and he checked all the boxes. He just wants me to be his friend... I gave it a few days and replied that the friendship he wants with me is what I wanted in our marriage, and that is what true lasting love turns into after the big rush of passion evens itself out...and that until he can see that, we can't be friends Reading these forums gave me SO much insight into what was going on in his head... and fantastic tips on how to deal with it. I stand (for now) because during that first GAL period I realized I could live without him, I just didn't want to. He claimed he was going to end it with her (it was super casual, and he was not interested in anything more with her because he had already had the great love of his life, and apparently OW wanted different things).
June 2025 - At farm for S2's high school grad... S2 moving in with me as well. Was worried because his mother had a major nervous breakdown when he (the youngest AND a momma's boy) moved out, so concerned about his mental state with youngest leaving his nest. Things had been going amazingly well between us the last few months, and XH/X smiling and moving towards making reconnections with friends, the boys, and old interests. On the long drive back to my house, the chemistry, intimacy, and connection that make a marriage great were all there! We sang together, had deep conversations, in general you could have lit an entire country with the energy we created... it was as if the boys weren't in the car with us. I hadn't seen him this happy and energized in a very long time! He admitted to me that he thought he was depressed, and dthat his head felt like a vacuum.. did I find talking to a therapist helpful? His stay was full of flirting, a family outing, doing chores around the house (which he hadn't done in a long time!)... topped it off with going down to the marina to watch the sunset with S1, I stayed down at the beach, and I suspect he had taken candid pictures of me, and even more certain when he took pictures of me being goofy. We stayed up late looking at houses, and watching a TV show we had watched together way back when S1 was born.
He changed his plans and left early the next day. He smiled when I glared at him for not giving me a hug, got out of the car and allowed for a longer, tighter hug than he had in the last year... called me several times on the drive home, very sentimental.
July 2025 - With son out, and news that another uncle had passed from the genetic heart valve defect... he's deep in depression. He doesn't remember anything about his time here in June and insists that I'm gaslighting him. He even called the boys to tell them to watch out for me because he's seriously worried about my mental health. Called back after that heated call, where I started taking deep breaths before responding... he still claimed I was gaslighting him, but if he were to give me the benefit of the doubt, what would I suggest he do? I strongly suggested he get help for his depression. He then said that I should do the same, because he was worried about me. I told him I was. Found out he is still occasionally seeing OW, and insists that I give up on telling him anything about how much I love him and am here to support him if seeks help. He told me he's been depressed most his life (first time he's ever said that!), and that he knows how to get through this. Just leave him alone and let him live his life... he wants to live what he's got left sowing his wild oats and working... nothing about us, his family, in that plan!
Aug 2025 - Started the month off by deciding it was time to detach... halfway through the month and I've only called him once... wanted to know if he had fallen in love with and or cheated on me when we were married. No hesitation, no emotion...no, he hadn't. Started the conversation off with referring to an earlier conversation we had where he said he didn't owe me anything... he didn't remember saying that... but his memory where emotional conversations are concerned has been noticeable since 2023, and downright concerning as time goes by.
Since I stopped calling, he's been calling me every few days... twice in a shorter period because I missed the first call, and when I answered the second time, it was about a joke he didn't have anyone else to share it with. It sounded like he choked up at the end of the call right before he quickly said bye and hung up before I could say anything. Being the big softy that I am, I then foolishly sent him a text resinstating my support, and to reach out whenever. He immediately called after reading it to see if I was OK. It occurred to me then that maybe he wasn't gaslighting when emotions weren't involved, but using his concern for me as a coping tool. He called me yesterday to talk about things he could clearly look up himself. He's looking for any reason to call, but even though it's killing me, I'm sticking with detachment. It's been tough, but getting out from under his cloud made me realize how much of his depression I've been sponging for years!
We are even still so bonded, that (and not the first time in the last while) someone had made a joke about reading someone's mind and I was halfway through saying I get that with XH/X... and guess who called at that moment!
See, I told you it was complicated... 😉
So... now some questions...
Can someone really forget that a chunk of two days happened?
That reconnection before June felt an awful lot like a proper reconnection attempt, and not a touch & go.... was it possibly, but then thrown in the trash by the two trauma triggers?
My biggest concern... because I triggered the 180 when (from my point of view... who the heck knows what was going on in his head!) I rejected him when I couldn't perform... a call back to a major trauma in his life, is detaching by going dark on my side a good idea? This is a certain case where I am in fact responsible for one of his trauma triggers.... unable to find anyone on the forums in similar situation, and would appreciate any feedback!
Un, I saw that you requested my input. While most of my pre-BD confidence has returned, I'm still not sure about giving direction in MLC situations. I can tell you what I hear from your narrative if you find that helpful.
First, I can hear your pain and interest in restoring your marriage. That I (all on this site) can relate to. You seem to have a strong connection over many years with H. This is wonderful. Seems like many years of your R has been your crisis, the divorce, and now your H's crisis. That's a lot of years in turmoil. Still, there must have been many good moments/years, as you are here.
I enjoyed my H for 30+ years and have memories no one can take from me. Regardless of where our R ends up, my memories are mine. I say the same to you. You have many memories that will always remain yours regardless of where your R ends up.
My immediate second thought brings a series of questions that you don't need to respond to here. If you are comfortable sharing, it may help us help you.
If I read your update correctly, you went through a midlife storm. That gives you insight, strength and compassion that many people may not have. Ask yourself these questions and see what you can put together. Perhaps you have more answers than I do....as my MLC H is still not home nor is he knocking the door down.
When you reflect on your MLC (if I can call it that), What did it feel like? What was your narrative? What did you 'get' from the OM? What did he provide? Why did you feel that you could/should have a different relationship from your M?
Then, I ask you what you learned through your MLC? The years before your H's MLC were not wasted years. What have the years refined? What have you learned about yourself? What remains a mystery?
H needs space and time. That offers you space and time. Use it wisely. Self-reflection may give you more answers than anyone/anything. While you can't fix H or anyone else, you can be steady, kind and honest while he does the work of facing himself. In that time, you've been through transformation that H allowed for. You know the discomfort and the growth that it brought forward in you.
Should you go dark? meh. Dim, yes. Wait for his outreach. Then wait to respond. Think through what your response is, if one is needed.
I may not like that H and I don't talk EVER since I've been no contact for the better part of 14 months. Business transactions are the extent of our convos and I can see H is hurting. Rescuing him is not recommended so I wait. Patience is a learned virtue over here. Time will tell if/when H has endured enough and turns inward.
There are many similarities in the LBS and in the MLC script. For this reason, I asked you questions that I imagine would help you better understand what H is possibly enduring.
It sounds to me like your experience was rooted in years of exhaustion, unmet needs and feeling unseen. As you thought through the questions/answers, did they give you reason to pause? Did you consider that H may respond to the questions in the same way? similar way?
One thing that I've learned about midlife crisis is that it often looks like chaos and contradictions. H can pull close, push away, seem lost, and make choices that don't make sense. Choices that are exactly the opposite of who H was. It's not about you - it's about his inner turmoil. His inner battle. Change. Oddly something my H has always resisted is change and now he's changed so much that he is unrecognizable to me.
You seem to be wrestling with wanting to detach, believing that detaching is the right step forward, and seeing hope in detaching. It makes sense, as I was once in your shoes. At first, detaching is counterintuitive and certainly the opposite of how you've likely been through the years. Trust that the cost of holding on and not detaching is very high. Your nervous system will exhaust and you'll find yourself riding his rollercoaster of emotions.
Originally Posted by Un
The second was finding out he had the defective heart valve. Two years ago, he figured he had 15-20 years, now he's stuck in his head like it's going to happen tomorrow. I mean, he's convinced that he wants to die alone on the farm. With his skewed sense of time, maybe he thinks it's closer than it is? He hadn't seen the specialist last time we had talked about it, so there's no proof that it's going to happen soon.
Figuring him out is not possible while he's in crisis. Yet, normal to want to. I will tell you that answers don't come for a long time. It would be more helpful to you if you focus on why you feel however you feel. Work through your feelings.
He doesn't know what is going on. He doesn't know why things are changing. And, if he hasn't figured it out, how could you or someone else? You can't do his work for him. He needs to work through things that only he can face. Sometimes the most loving thing you can do is to give someone what they ask for. His words and actions are asking for space. Luckily for you, holding space doesn't mean waiting around or pausing your life. And, we're back to detaching.
And chasing or pushing him to face things at a pace he's not ready for will only make him run faster and further. Learned this the hard way on many occasions through H's crisis.
Originally Posted by Un
It is so hard for me to detach, because XH/X had said that after I left, he felt like I treated him like someone that he used to know.
I'm not convinced that you are having a hard time detaching because H said something.
Holding space and detaching doesn't mean losing yourself. You take care of yourself. Live your life to its fullest. Take care of your emotions by detaching. Keep - perhaps it's more like establish than keep - your boundaries strong. Enjoy the things that bring you peace.
It's a long and confusing road so I love that you're getting help for yourself. Find a good therapist. Gain your strength back while he's off in lala land.
And lastly, I'd like you to give thought to the last of the questions you answered.
Originally Posted by Un
Then, I ask you what you learned through your MLC? The years before your H's MLC were not wasted years. What have the years refined? What have you learned about yourself? What remains a mystery?
Through the years I learned that I had SO much to learn! The man I knew now was not the same from before... we were growing back together, then his MLC started. I have not bolted, despite my natural reaction to want to. Comparing things he's said to things OM said to me, I am certain OM was going through MLC when we got together. I was 30, he was 45....
Your response has a bit of focus on "The man I knew". What about Un and what you knew about Un?
