This is a continuation of my previous thread, "MLC Hubby wants to move out". Well, he's moved out, so it's a new chapter and time for a new thread.
Rumspringa is an Amish term for the time that teenagers take away from their colony to decide if they want to stay with their way of life or to join modern society.
This is what H is going through - trying to decide if he wants to stay with our marriage and life of 25 years or if he wants something else.
How nice for him.
His moving out was a bit of a surprise. Last weekend on Saturday he bought a car and on Sunday he went to the apartment and signed the lease. He never told me his plans, so when I got home from my GAL on Sunday he was gone and didn't return until late. I went to sleep at 11 pm, but first I texted him and accused him of cheating and told him to get out ASAP.
An hour and a half later he's home in bed and tapping me on the shoulder saying he's not cheating, he was at his new apartment because he's "miserable living here." I said "I'm sorry you're so miserable" and rolled over and went back to sleep.
The next day he got up, did a little work and then went to his new apartment and that was that. I was expecting him to say, "I'm moving out on X day." But that would have been too much to ask. He's signed a 6 month lease. I'm not sure 6 months will be long enough, but we'll see.
I'm doing ok. I feel like I need a break too, to tell you the truth. No tears. Maybe I'm just a little numb. But the marriage was at its breaking point, and now it's snapped. Time will tell if we can put it back together. Or not. I'm working on accepting the possibility of "not". "Not" may be the right choice.
I have been GAL'ing like crazy! Really good GAL. He left on a Monday. On Tuesday I went to a concert and sat in the front row. On Wednesday I met up with some old and dear work friends. On Thursday (today) I did a volunteer project and there was a gorgeous happy hour afterwards. I am sharing my story with my friends and getting a range of responses. Some want to know the details and talk about it. Some completely get it. Others don't know what to say. It's all fine. Everyone is supportive.
I made H agree to come here for dinner while S18 and S20 are still home. I am taking S20 back to college this weekend and I told H he had to stay here while I was gone so S18 didn't have to be by himself. I created a detailed "separation agreement" and now H has to sign it. H is not pushing back.
However... H was here this afternoon and left the house with the front door unlocked and back door wide open (behind a locked gate, but still.) This is the kind of behavior that would drive anyone crazy. He's so checked out he can't remember to lock the door. Not the first time either. I've come home to the door actually wide open. Things have been stolen from our car because H forgets to lock it. Etc. This may never change. But right now, there's nothing to compensate for it.
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he's "miserable living here."
This really irks me, but it brings to mind something I've been coming back to over and over again - the idea of me as a surrogate mother. It explains a lot - his hesitancy towards me, his sexual repression, his need for my approval, and now, his rebellion and wanting to leave the house. For anyone new to my sitch, his mom left the family when he was 12ish so he's stuck at age 12. Has not dealt with the trauma, hence the current running away behavior.
Hi Y'all, Just a quick check in and a few updates.
First - I am doing great! Still making a lot of progress clearing out junk. Not having H around makes me feel "unburdened". It is nice not to have to worry about him, what he is doing, what he thinks, what he's going to think, what he's going to do, what he's going to say. So freeing.
I never realized how much his negativity was affecting me. I was trying to push it off to one side, but it was still there. I feel like I'm winning here.
Second - H has come around for the past 2 weeks to get his mail. I wasn't home either time, but he contacted me before coming. Both times he brought the trash barrels to the street before leaving which I thought was considerate. I think he must miss being here and he misses our dogs too.
He texted me a book he has been reading called "Wired for Love: How Understanding your Partner's Brain and Attachment Style Can Help You Defuse Conflict and Build a Secure Relationship." (I'm not recommending the book - i'm just telling you). This is significant because I have never known H to read ANY books about relationships - EVER. The books he reads are philosophy books which aren't helpful at all. This one is written by an actual psychologist!
I also know he has been going to therapy because he sent me the bills. Ha ha.
Also, the fact that H texted me either meant he wanted me to know he was reading it and/or he wants me to read it - he said "This is a good read."
It's a step in the right direction. One step of many, but you have to start somewhere.
Hi Everyone, It's been a couple of weeks already! Time flies when you're GAL'ing!
Thank you all for your kind and supportive words. It's very helpful. Yes, it's one day at a time and no decisions need to be made, but I'm a planner and I like to have a map of where things might go. I've got to reflect on what has happened in the last month, year, 5, 10 years and really re-evaluate it.
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Any reconciliation will be creating a new relationship, not saving the old marriage. In that respect, divorced or not matters little.
I love this. It's totally true. And I'm not sure I would choose H all over again. At least, not H in his current state.
Last week we dropped off S18 at college so I am an officially an empty nester! It's just me and the dogs now! Aside from figuring out how to to cook for one, I'm enjoying the peace and quiet and freedom. I can breathe! I've been spending time clearing out junk and organizing and it's been great (yes, this is what I consider "great").
College dropoff went smoothly. H came with but had his own hotel room and drove his own car. Except for one moment when he told me not to yell my son's name to get his attention (which I find ridiculous), we got along. We ate meals together, we went to Target together to get supplies and gave each other a hug when it was time to say goodbye.
On my drive home H called me and said THANK YOU for handling S18's move - he appreciated all the hard work and planning that went into it. Well knock me over with a feather! I just told him I appreciated him saying that and yes, it's a lot of work.
Other than that it's been quiet from H side. I'm piling up his mail. He ordered something and it arrived here and I assume he'll figure that out at some point. I had to communicate with him re: my dogs and we are still on group chat with the boys but I am laying low regarding my plans, whereabouts etc. and he is doing same.
The other thing that happened is that when I was talking to S20 today he said, "Dad says hi." I asked him for clarification - your father said tell Mom hi? S20 said yes. That is classic H. Do everything except communicate directly. I just said "Ok" - not "say hi back" or anything like that .
It reminded me of the time when I was on a work trip and my phone wasn't receiving texts, so instead of CALLING ME or CALLING THE HOTEL he went on Facebook and tried to reach out to my friends who were on the trip with me - it was so weird.
I've been GAL'ing plenty - I had 2 amazing GAL activities today and more lined up over the next few weeks - even turned down a GAL! Not feeling sad or sorry for myself. My friends are a little envious of my "no H house", LOL!
Thank you Grok. This is hard. You've been there. You know how devastating this is.
Only thing to do now is work on me, work on letting go. Plan an H-less future. Try to come to terms with the fact that H isn't a good guy, or at the very least, he's not a good H.
I'm beginning to see this separation as a tremendous gift. It has allowed me to discover what I needed to discover in order to move on, and has given me the blessing of space and time to process and plan in total solitude. It has allowed me to truly understand the reality of what has been happening vs. my skewed/wishful thinking that H would somehow take his leave, come back, and be ready to start fresh. I have come to realize that he took this break not to think about things and work on our marriage, but to see if things will work out with OW/AP. He has been cake eating all this time. I have no idea how I would be doing this if H were still here.
I still have feelings for H, as is quite common among us LBS. I have made an embarrassingly long list of all the things he did that hurt me in our marriage, along with how that made me feel. Reading it, I'm ashamed that I stayed, and I'm incredibly thankful that I finally have the guts to D. I wish it had not come to betrayal, but that is what it took for me to finally wake up. I look at the list when I need a reminder of why I need to D and it helps. I haven't yet internalized it. I'm still clinging to what was, or what I hoped for.
Despite his devious and malignant behavior, I still see him as a broken little boy looking for mommy (which doesn't make for a great spouse), and I feel bad for him. I was with him for half of my life, and I've known him for more than 2/3 of it. I will know him for the rest of it, since we share two children. Having read those journals, I got an insight into some of his pain. This is not an excuse but he sought validation/self acceptance from OW/AP and it's sad that he was broken enough to do that. This is why I sent him that book.
I was tested for all STDs and thankfully all negative. Low risk since it's been over a year w H but I know he was with her prior to that.
On boundaries - they are the only thing that we can control in an otherwise uncontrollable situation. I had really lost sight of mine and was letting him walk all over me in some futile hope that he would/could love me.
Figuring out who I am has been the hardest part for me. I so much enjoy(ed) being mom and wife that I didn't care to be me. I have no idea who I am either. If you figure out how to identify yourself, please share the secret sauce. lol
Hopeful that your holiday celebrations are going well. Cheers to wisdom & patience in 2025.
I was just starting to feel better and back to normal, when today I found out more.
I realized that I have access to H's calendar so of course I looked at it.
Oh yes, that snooping. And when you find what you are not being told. A real gut punch. I ... was not myself for a couple of months.
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
The only way I would even consider taking him back is if he had a complete come to Jesus moment and was able to truly work on himself and be 100% truthful with me. So far, I see no evidence that that will happen, aside from some regret in his voice when we talk. I would like to think that H feels some sort of shame for treating me this way, but maybe he doesn't.
And when you compare Sandi's list of what it requires to reconcile, you realize just how far away from current reality ... that dream is.
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
After work, I got in my car, screamed 4 times, cried, and then I talked to my sister on my drive home. Then I got one of his surfboards, wrote 'CHEATING LYING [Censored] [Censored] [Censored]' all over it and then hacked at it with a pickaxe. I feel better now.
Do it some more. And let it out. You have to, in bits. My sister told me she used to go for walks in the forest and "whack every tree with a big stick... my hands hurt after but I felt better for a while."
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
I know none of this is in the spirit of DB, but what I take from the book and from this group is the idea that I do have some control. That I can be intentional about my actions. That by being intentional, I can benefit. That I am not helpless in an otherwise horrible situation.
No, I'd say it is in the spirit of DB. You have defined conditions/boundary under which a R can work for YOU. Making your changes and maybe they will want to come along for the journey. It is not about waiting around forever.
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
I'm really scared about how this is going to work out financially
Fear. Yes, I have had it. Less now. Though financially this will set me back 10+ years. Half of our combined assets. One more year of 25% of my income to alimony (I'm looking at it as paying for my kids private teacher...thanks my sister for that frame!).
Litany Against Fear - Dune by Frank Herbert
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past, I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain."
Face the fear. Let it flow through and go. YOU remain.
It is not what you (I) wanted or ever imagined ... but your future is calling!
Faith
Future's Calling - Apollo LTD
Is anyone out there? Is anyone listening? Is there any path to understand Or is it just a mystery? ... Hello human Hello suffering It's hard to reconcile what is And the way it was meant to be But something's about to givе Standing on the brink ... I know you're lonely And you're broken-hearted Always fighting to find your way You're barely holding on, holding on, holding on All you need is just a little faith The future's calling your name
H took the boys on a short camping trip. They got back today and I asked S21, "Was Dad nice?" S21's response was "Yes and he's not moving back in."
Ok... not what I asked...
So I asked S21 for more details - a little more context - S21 immediately shut down. Then I asked S18 to explain that comment. I was really just trying to see if H meant not moving back in after 6 month separation or ever. Well, I guess H talked to them a bit about this and said that he didn't want to live with someone who didn't make him happy. I don't want to put the boys between us but when they offer up that kind of information unsolicited it makes that very hard. H should not have said that to the boys without saying that to me first.
I certainly can understand your frustration with H’s talking about details with the kids. However, control and expectations. You cannot, and do not, control H nor your kids. You only control you. Also, you cannot expect H to tell you stuff first, or not to tell the kids, or friends, or whomever.
Yes, it would be nice if H would speak to you first. Of course, if he would/did he wouldn’t be where he is.
Expectations are tricky and sneaky. We place them upon more than we realize. It takes a weird calm mindset to kind of go along with the flow, yet still control and direct what you can control. Embracing limbo. Embracing uncertainty.
H has the right to speak to anyone. So do you. So do the kids. You are all adults.
You cannot prevent H from speaking his narrative. Most crisis folks use friends, family, the legal system, work, etc. to their own ends. This is especially troublesome when it turns to weaponizing the kids. Luckily, it sounds like H is not purposefully going that far. He is just sharing his feelings with them.
The best you can do - lead by example. Be the strong stable parent.
When S21 and S18 brought up the unsolicited information about how Dad doesn’t want to live with some who doesn’t make him happy, would be a good time to have put forth the knowledge that happiness doesn’t come for others, or external sources, happiness comes from within.
I’m sure another opportunity will present itself and you can expound upon the source of happiness, while not blaming their Dad. Just explaining that Dad’s unhappiness (or joy), like anyone’s, comes from within him.
Yes, you don’t want to place the boys in the middle of this. However, it is perfectly fine to discuss topics they wish to discuss. And IMHO, they wouldn’t have blurted out that info if they hadn’t wanted you to know or hadn’t wanted to discuss or say something further. (Raised four teenagers. They are really good at not telling stuff they don’t want you to know. ) Be open for them to lead the conversation where they want/need it to go.
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
One of the other things that H said to the boys was that he was disappointed that I didn't say to him "Let's work on our relationship" or "I want to make this work". Was he expecting ME to do that? I mean, what?? After he cheated on me, rejected me for months and then walked out on me? And then signed up for dating services the second he was gone? The first rule of DB is DO NOT SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT. So I was pretty surprised (and confused) to hear that. I thought he wanted space and was trying to give it to him. And honestly, hearing that from me wouldn't have changed anything. He would have just known he had me on a string.
That is typical narrative and justification creation. H is crafting “reasons” for why he is doing what he is doing. Don’t fall for it.
You are absolutely correct: No R talks!
H will use whatever you say, or don’t say, against you. After all, he just did.
I mean seriously, H is disappointed with you? For stuff you didn’t do?
R, that is pure projection. H cannot be wrong. His ego, his emotions, his mind, is too frail; he is too steeped in denial; he is too much running to be able to blame himself. Therefore, he blames you. Projection.
Any fighting against his narrative and he will fight and gaslight you.
Just let him be.
Fighting begets fighting.
You focus on you and the kids. You come at things sideways. That weird calm mindset. That embracing limbo.
Give H to God.
Leave the door open a crack.
Be the lighthouse.
AND, live and love your life! Without H! (Like he is not coming back.)
You don’t have to divorce. Or date. Or anything like that. Definitely not. lol. Embrace being single. Do fun things. Do what brings you joy. Dust off old hobbies and interests from years ago. Stuff you put away with marriage and kids and husband.
Remember, happiness, joy, comes from within. That’s for you too!
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
Why is having a conversation clingy? Maybe I'm just not seeing that, maybe it's a blind spot for me. But, I find it very hard, after 23 years of marriage, to walk away without having ANY conversation. I would like some communication here and I owe that to myself. I have zero expectations as to the outcome. I think a big part of me wants to force him to face me. He has been such a coward, telling the boys he is not coming back but not saying anything to me.
Control.
You cannot force H to face you. The more you try, the more he will run.
Let go the rope, or be dragged.
Time and space. Give him lots! Let him choke on it.
H needs to feel the loss, feel pain, before he will alter his course. He needs to hit rock bottom.
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
Maybe this didn't come across correctly. I don't intend to wait until he "gets better." Not at all. But as I'm writing this out, I can see that there is not really a way to hold space for someone and move on at the same time. I intend to move on. Not to wait. I guess I am having a hard time shutting the door. It's so obvious that he needs a lot of help, but it's up to me to get over that urge to fix.
H had a semi-traumatic upbringing with his unstable Mom; an unfortunate career/financial outcome; suffered from depression; etc. Lots of stuff to heal from.
You didn’t break him. Therefore, you cannot fix him.
Let the man upstairs have a go with him.
You don’t have to completely shut the door. By the way, the door; house:; etc; are metaphors for the relationship. So you can keep the door ajar. But H just can’t come waltzing in whenever he feels like it. Knock. Announce yourself. Wipe your feet. Take off your shoes. Like a real house, with a real door!
To further the illustrative metaphor. You don’t sit pining away. You go out. You go to movies. Restaurants. Vacations. See friends. See kids. And so on. Sometimes when H comes by, he’ll find you with music cranked up and blaring away with you dancing around. (Metaphorical and otherwise.) Times like that. “Busy H. Talk to you another day.”
Weird calm mindset.
You create your limbo. Which isn’t really all that bad. Once you figure it out. It is kind of counterintuitive.
Hope you and the boys have a wonderful New Year and all the best for 2025.
) Be open for them to lead the conversation where they want/need it to go.