Divorcebusting.com Forums Thread Like Summary - MLC Hubby wants to move out

Hi friends,
Glad this site is still around and thriving. It was so helpful to me 10-12 years ago when I first started DB'ing. (YES, it works, and we survived!)

I can't say the last 10 years have been easy... many bumps in the road but reading my old posts, it's a GD miracle that we didn't D back then. Things were really brutal at times, but with time, we've mellowed... old hurts have healed, we have come back together, and drifted apart again...

Yesterday we celebrated our 23rd wedding anniversary, and it was actually lovely and we had some good conversations about "us", but H is dead set on this idea of moving out and being a "bachelor".
We are approaching an empty nest with S18 leaving for college in Sept and H is just convinced that he needs some time on his own. The problem is, we have no money for this.

I'll try to keep this story short but H had a semi-traumatic upbringing with a very unstable mother who was in and out of the house. She also had psychiatric problems. She was loving, but extremely unreliable. (I am the opposite: extremely reliable, not super lovey-dovey).

Last summer, H's grandma died and H's mom, who was already in poor health, ended up in a psychiatric hospital. Now H's mom has her psychiatric issues under control, but has lost nearly all of her motor function and will probably be in a nursing home from here on out. Understandably, this has taken a toll on H.

H worked for a company that had an unsuccessful IPO and we went from being fabulously wealthy (on paper) to having a little extra money for a nice vacation in reality. This also really set him back emotionally. He was also laid off from this company in their scramble to resurrect their stock price, which couldn't have been too great for him either.

H suffers from depression generally and has been taking meds for a while now. H has never really resolved his mother issues and they have filtered through into our M. He has always been somewhat reserved and never truly vulnerable. H is now able to hear this and accept that he needs to work on his mother issues to get over this R hump.

One day, in November 2023, I was looking at my Kindle and I noticed some new books in there (we had a family account). MLC's take all different forms, but my hubby's MLC apparently is all about kinky sex; the books were about BDSM and polyamory. All fine, not really my bag though. It came as a shock but sort of opened up some lines of conversation. (The lines of conversation started with "WHAT THE F, H?!!!")

I had surgery back in October 2023 and H has cut off sex since then. H could have gone to sleep in S20's bedroom (he was at college but is home now) but he did not.

Fast forward to now, H has decided he needs to live alone to figure out his [censored]. The good news is that we're talking more, communicating better, through all of this. He has also mentioned that he might want to see other women but he didn't want to open the marriage. Then he said he wanted to talk to our sons about this and I said ABSOLUTELY NOT... Not until he has a plan... which he doesn't. H has said he doesn't want a D, he just wants some space... is that having his cake and eating it too? I don't know.

This fool is probably thinking about liquidating his 401K so he can fulfill his MLC fantasies. That's reason enough for a D! We have a guest house in our backyard but that's not enough separation for him. I told him (and he listened) that he was being EXTREMELY selfish and he actually agreed. Ironically - he's been nicer, kinder, more open, listening more... and maybe it's because I have just backed off...

The first thing I did when he started the "I want to move out" conversation and I could tell he wasn't just blowing smoke this time - i bought another copy of DR. I had given mine away to a friend whose H walked out on her. I feel like a DB pro at this point... these techniques feel like second nature after practicing them for so long, but they work.

Other books I have been reading:
The Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands by Dr. Laura Schlesinger - I don't subscribe to a lot of Dr. Laura's theories about feminism and whatnot, but she makes some good points about not being a bitch and treating H like a man and not a child.

The Shut-Out Wife: Breaking Through Your Husband's Midlife Crisis by Debra Macleod, BA, JD. - I'm about halfway through this one - pretty similar to DB/DR but really focused on MLC and all it's fun flavors.

Anyway - glad to be back after such a long time and looking forward to hearing from y'all.

@Job - thank you. Sadly, I have gotten really good at detachment over the years. The walls went up a long time ago and now I can just put them back up pretty easily. It's a pretty effective defense mechanism and some say it's a healthy practice (maybe not in a marriage but with regards to other bulls***t in life).

I actually am doing ok. H is broken and hasn't been the kind of H I have wanted for a long time, so rational me wonders why I would want to be with someone like that and it makes it easier to detach. I look at the wedding ring sitting there and I feel sad but I also feel like that if he wants to self destruct, that's on him. Like I said, this has been going on for years.

H went on a short overnight business trip and I do not plan to call/text. H can get the message that I am not that interested in whatever he is doing.

I guess not having the ring on makes him feel somewhat empowered but I'll be damned if he ever uses the word "we" when he has to explain this to our families/friends/whatever. This is 100% him and I will make sure everyone knows that.

DnJ:

.

I'm getting more of a guilt read here. He knows it was my birthday, he gave me a card! And purposely avoided me all day. He just didn't want to face me and all his shame about what he has done.


Yep, what *I* am trying to do. In this R, there isn't much "we." H has no part in the finances and that's fine. Everyone is bad at something and he's horrible at managing money. I said "I" because I am managing the process. He's on board for the most part, and I think he sees that $100K as not counting because it's from his retirement account. More punting. "Who knows what's going to happen with the stock market. It could go to zero. I might not make it to retirement" etc. Excuses!!! And lame ones to boot. It's an idiotic decision which in and of itself has increased the likelihood that I will want to initiate D.


Well - a couple things here. First of all, money has always been an issue. I am a saver, he is a spender, and - shocker - he's kind of immature sometimes and wants what he wants. He's not much for compromise. H had to take a 20% salary cut recently which was significant and it was THEN that I had to put my foot down and start managing things way more closely.

Secondly - my plan is to divert a certain amount from our household operating budget back to him -anything that's a "unit cost" like food, gas, clothing, haircuts etc - anything we would be paying for anyway. His "get laid" money will cover anything incremental like extra rent and utilities and all that. He is even talking about getting another car. I told him if he does that, the insurance is on him too. I would also ask that he relinquish our joint credit cards and would not be able to return to the household without a zero credit card balance. I will also put this in writing and have him sign it.

Thirdly - if he were the kind of person who discussed these things ahead of time, we wouldn't be in this situation, would we?


It sure does. H knows this, and H also knows he doesn't have it in him to commit to any of it right now. Well, I guess that's good for him, but sooooo crappy for the rest of us. And let's be clear: I may not be perfect, but I have my life together. There is no reason (like substance abuse, mental health, financial irresponsibility or anger issues) for him to leave. He is going to find out soon that he misses having his dinner cooked and his laundry washed and folded.

My sister asked me what I get from him besides money and I said he can reach up high and lift heavy things. It's certainly not things like support or companionship, or even really helping out around the house much. That's on him. He has been pushing me away for a long time, and I honestly just didn't want to face that reality. My confidence that he will come back as the man I need him to be is very low - especially if he continues to make decisions in a vacuum.

The stages of MLC are a guide, not set in stone. Each person is unique, therefore, their crisis will be unique. Some display similar traits, but because their childhoods are very different, they will act out differently. Keep in mind that depression is the main element of his crisis and he will be emotional as well.

About the stages, they are out there to give you an idea of what they do. The traits and the lengths of time will vary. Some go through the crisis quickly and others will be slow, i.e., like turtles. They tend to bounce back and fourth in the first 4 stages and some even bounce around until the very final stage which is actually acceptance. When he has finally completed his journey, he will reconnect with all in the exact opposite of how he entered his crisis.

From what I am reading, I would say he is going to be going out with the man who is going through a divorce. They tend to hang out with people who are separating/divorcing or already divorced. They like to hang out with single people as well. Right now, he is going back in time to the teen and/or early 20's years.

As for your finances, you may want to consider setting up a separate account just for your use. Invest in some gift cards just in case he decides that he is going to go on a spending spree. You will need to have a nest egg in case that happens.

Make a list of questions for a lawyer, but do not share the info with your H. Also, do not share anything that you read about MLC, especially the stages and this site. All of this information is for you, the lbs. You will not be able to convince him that he is in crisis. Yes, he has an inkling something is wrong, but it is going to take him a long time to figure it out. He will hit that brick wall many times over and until one day, he will tire and finally sit down and contemplate his life. Some never do this.

Do be sure to visit the other threads on the forum. They will help you along the way.

I am so sorry that you have had to return. However, we are still here and others will come along and chime in when they have time.

It sounds like your h did not fully resolve all of his issues years ago and now, MLC has come back around and is raising its ugly head once again.

You know the drill...listen, don't offer advice unless asked, set up separate accounts for yourself, watch the joint accounts and just be a friend. As you already know, you didn't break him, therefore you can't fix him. However, you can prepare yourself for him possibly taking a flight on the Mother Ship.

I am so very sorry that you are here once again. Please take care of yourself. As always, keep the focus on you and what you need to do to protect yourself.

Good Morning R


Good. Keep an eye on the accounts.

Some ideas for you. If any resonate with you and/or if your situation warrants them (in no particular order):

- Pay off joint credit cards. Cancel joint credit. Get your own credit card(s).

- Have your own bank account. Invest monies into it. (However, in most locales all monies are marital assets to be split if things go that road. A L can confirm your locale’s guidelines and laws.)

- job’s suggestion of purchasing gift cards is a good strategy for socking away some funds too.

- Ensure you are an authorized owner on all household bills and therefore allowed to alter or cancel any/all services. Lots of stories of folks being held hostage on an internet provider or cell phone bill by their angry spouse who won’t make/allow/do any changes.

- Speaking of cell phones. Split up the bill. Let H completely pay and look after his own phone. Along with his own credit card(s). You look after your stuff. Keep your credit score in your hands.

- Cars. Are you joint owners? Are you registered as such? Make sure you are listed.

- Same for other big ticket items. Motorhome, camper, cabin, whatever.

- Look into investment accounts too. Ensure you have full access to anything joint or your’s.

- Ensure you have access/authorization to whatever health insurance you currently have.

- Limit, no, remove H’s access to stuff that is your’s. Period. No discussion with him.

- Transfer half of joint assets to your personal account/control. (Again, a L can assure the legality of such action.)

- Document, document, document. Keep track of everything you do.


When I went through my situation, it was amazing how many providers, businesses, institutions, and such we/I dealt with. Lots of accounts and business relationships to notify/organize. Even down to the kids’ school/university accounts for tuition and music lessons. Post office box. Shares in the local co-op. There is a lot of things acquired in decades of joint living.

On another, yet related note. My Dad is in a care home, which leaves my Mom living on her own in “their” house. She was not listed on many of the bills and providers and services. We found out many problems during one of Dad’s grim episodes. He was unresponsive and quite disoriented for some time. Found out that none of the businesses would even speak with Mom as she was not an authorized person on the account. (At the time, she was having phone and satellite TV problems and we could not get anywhere with them.)

When Dad came back to living and lucid, a few things got “fixed”. Mom, and I, were listed on all bills and household/life items. I was included, for what happens if Mom gets sick or incapacitated. Which brought up, power of attorney. Mom for Dad, and me for both of them.

As I said, lots of things to organize. When it’s all going well, we have no idea. When things go awry, it’s a mess. Getting/having things organized before, is so much better and less stressful.


MY XW was/is a high energy vanisher. She burns the candle on both ends. Heck, she’d burn it from the middle if she could. And she’s a vanisher. Poof. She left me, the kids, friends, family, pets, etc. Dropped the bomb during Thanksgiving supper and ran off with OM. All the way to his house 1/2 mile away. He’s my neighbour. And ex egg man. LOL! (Contrasted to Pattnee’s H who ran to the opposite of the globe.)


You are on two paths or journeys.

One is the emotional/healing path. Detaching; finding indifference; letting go of fear, ego, H (let go or be dragged); discovering your convictions; finding understanding, compassion, acceptance, and forgiveness. Becoming the best version of you.

The other path is the business side of the situation. The bills and kids stuff. With both sons being over 18, custody is not an issue (just major financial expenses like tuition and such). That leaves the finical stuff. Joint expenses and splitting of assets, anywhere from current status to fully financially separate. There is a lot of room along that scale.

While traversing either path, stick to that path. Do not mix business with your healing. Do not mix emotions into your business direction and decisions. Yes, the two paths do/can complement each other, and there will be some overlap. Do effort to keep the delimitation between the two paths as least nebulous as you can.

While on the business side, remain business-like. Facts, logic, reason. Look to those when making plans or decisions. You don’t have a million dollar hidden somewhere (I didn’t either. Nuts!), yet you have something. Do you own your house? No mortgage? Or do you rent? Know your assets. Etc. Speaking with a L will show you your best case and worse case scenarios, and your likely case, if H pushes things all the way to divorce. Information is power! Then, now, you can make forward business-like plans.

Yes, financial protection and security is very important. Especially at our ages, or older. I’m 56. My work life, and opportunities to earn are mostly behind me. Security and protection are much needed/important than when I was in my twenties.

As I mentioned, lots of room along the financial scale. Lots of room to negotiate. The big thing from my experience, you have a much better chance at agreement or the MLCer following through if they feel/think the idea is their’s. Let H lead the way. Takes some finesse sometimes, and in no small part biting one’s tongue. (An example of overlap there. Good for business and your healing. )

I’m a big proponent of leaving the heavy lifting to the spouse who is wanting out. However, ensure you have financial protection and security. If you need it, if it’s lacking - get it!


MLC is horrible! Absolutely horrible!

There is plenty of damage. And lots of collateral damage. The term Bomb Drop is most apt. However, the damages do not cease after BD. Depending on the MLCer, their running behaviours, their past unrealized unreconciled traumas, pains, and torments there will be more waves of destruction.

So, no. There is always serious damage, both directed and collateral. The big question and focus of the LBS - has anyone healed from such damages?

Unequivocally, yes! People can and do heal.

First and foremost is the LBS. That emotional/healing path. You and the kids and friends and family. All can heal. All can come through this, better than before. Most LBS would not, even if they could, give up their hard-eared gains to not have their situation happen. The journey we were forced upon is that profound. It’s a golden opportunity. Do the inner work. Grow and heal.

Does the MLCer heal? Maybe. Some do. Some run for the rest of their days. Their path, the damages they inflict upon us, is more about them than us. In fact, their destruction of self, that drive and need to relive their youth, to relive all they feel they missed out on, damages them far more than the collateral pain to us from the shrapnel flying around.


A link to a nice summary/guideline of MLC stages:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484752

Remember, it’s a guideline. Everyone is different and individual, therefore their crisis is different and individual. Yet, there are similarities, an almost script they more often than not do follow.

Running/replay is by far the longest of the stages. Their running behaviours and activities are bewildering and quite irrational. Realize the MLCer is driven emotionally. They are simultaneously trying to numb their pain and darkness while trying to feel something. They are consumed by their depression and unrelenting unreleased past and demons.

They become the opposite of who they were. Desperately trying to find happiness and end their pain. And desperate people do desperate things.

The LBS usually gets blamed for the MLCer’s pain. The MLCer doesn’t realize, cannot accept or look towards themselves or their past (yet) as cause. Their hurt/broken mind simply cannot for they would shatter. As such, they blame their spouse, or kids, or dogs - whatever, whomever is close by. The LBS getting the lion’s share of that.

MLCers display a lack of empathy; their empathy chip is broken. A result of their own emotions being cranked to eleven. They have no bandwidth for anyone else’s.

Plenty of less than stellar decisions, behaviours, and life choices occur when one is so consumed. So desperate. So depressed. Emotional decisions lead to regret. So, on top of everything else, the MLCer behaviours and such, deepen their turmoil.

The LBS has stages as well. Basically, following the steps of processing their grief. Denial, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Our situations are multifaceted, and we exist in and experience many stages at the same time. As we heal, as we release our anger and accept, more things are revealed to us. New items starting their own grief process, while others are complete or nearing acceptance.

When starting, detachment is the single best thing one can do. Becoming no longer uncontrollably dragged around by our spouse’s words and/or behaviour. It’s the first major milestone along our journey. A journey made up of many small steps. For me, some were just getting out of bed, or speaking with a lawyer. More and more steps. Slowly they accumulate. And before you realize you are somewhere else.

To that end, it’s good to figure out one’s headings. Those deeply held values, convictions, and beliefs. Strengthen those which serve, craft those which you aspire to, and discard those which no longer serve. Feelings are fleeting, and thoughts flit just as easy, yet beliefs are slow to change. It’s that quality that makes one’s values excellent headings. The shortest way through this quagmire is a straight line. The less one slogs around in circles the better it is.

Anyhow, just some thoughts for you during this raining day here. I had plans to paint some windows. Ha, the rain put a stop to those.

Hope you have a great day.

D

Enjoy your trip. I hope that everything goes smoothly while you are away. I am glad to read that your h is going back on his antidepressants. That's a start.

I identify here! and in my case...until I muted anything showing up from W....memes she would give a heart or thumbs up to with "TruLuv4Evar" and "I will never need anything but you" poems. They were NOT about me.

I've been limiting myself to occasional postings of my own with my kids for family and friends. I stopped looking at generated feeds. It wasn't good for me.

g

A better week this week! I am feeling much better physically, mentally, and emotionally.

Yes. Yes, I'm totally good with me and have never been all that invested in what anyone else thinks. This has gotten me in trouble a few times - you have to make a good impression!


^^This is what I've been focusing on this week.^^

A friend invited us to her house for the 4th - H was invited as well but I told her he probably wouldn't come. I let him know that I was going to attend and he was welcome to join, but I pretty much knew he wouldn't. Yesterday, I let him know what time I was leaving and was expecting him to say he wasn't coming and I was right, he didn't come. Knowing that he was probably not going to attend, I wondered to myself if I would have a better time with or without him - did I really WANT him to attend?

I realized that it's not that I wanted him to attend - it's that everyone else's H was attending and I didn't want to be the only one without an H there. That was my issue. My friend who hosted knows we're having trouble, so I just told everyone else he was golfing and that was that. I had a great time and I did not miss H one bit. Many times I have a worse time with him than I do without him.

H spent the day cleaning out the tool shed (which might be routine for a lot of guys but NOT my H... he never does stuff like that). Acts of service are definitely a love language for me. I don't think he did it in service but he did mention it. H also didn't eat too well but I got to have hamburgers and yummy picnic food.

H did come with me to watch fireworks but didn't even get out of the car. We could see the fireworks from the car, but I got out to talk to someone I knew and he didn't even get out to say hello. Nor did I ask him to - I just let him be. If he wants to be that way it's his problem.

I would venture to say that H has been slightly nicer and more communicative.

• He went to the neighbor's house and texted me to let me know.
• He went out tonight with his friend and said goodbye before he left.
• Earlier today I was in the bedroom folding laundry and he came in there and lay down on the bed while I was doing my thing. He didn't have to be in there with me. He chose to.
• I gave him a subscription to NY Times games for Father's Day and now we can actually talk about that together. It's a point of engagement.
• I texted him tonight something to do with S18's college while he is out on his man date and he actually texted back.
• I have an important meeting on Monday and I asked him if i could use his home office and he said "of course". (I work from home on Mondays and my desk is in the kitchen, which is not easy with 2 boys constantly in and out of the refrigerator. One time, I was on a call and H came in and started running the blender!!!!!)

On the other hand, on Wednesday I asked him a simple question and he didn't respond and when I asked him if he had heard me, his response was "I don't feel like talking to you right now." I let him know that that is no longer going to fly with me.

Next Friday is my birthday and I have plans to go to the beach and then to go out and see some comedy with a friend. I haven't mentioned any of this to H and he hasn't said anything about my birthday. I figured I'd get ahead of the game instead of setting myself up for disappointment. I went ahead and quietly bought myself the gift that I would have asked him for. (I might buy myself another one too!)

And I'm working on setting up GAL all over the place... lots of people looking for friendship and things to do, as it turns out. I got asked to participate in a craft fair at the end of the month. I even got inspired to send my headshots to a modeling agency specifically for 50+ women with grey hair. (Yes, I fit that bill). One of the women at the party yesterday is a grey hair model now and she loves it. I checked out the website and these are just ordinary women - some beautiful, some not. Some skinny, some not. Some tall, some not. WHY NOT?

So coming around full circle, it matters not what H thinks/feels. My therapist and I are working on building my life back up around ME. It feels really empowering!

Happy birthday! I'm so happy that you handled and planned your day as you did - even with the gifts! My big 50 is later this year and you've inspired me. TY

Timing is never good for the kiddos. My H bomb dropped for the second time in Sept of last year. This was the first the kids learned - BD1 was kept from them quite easily as H was not monstering nor running. Anyway, I can tell you that I agree with DnJ on timing. It may be best to allow them to process, grieve, release emotions before going to school. In my sitch, S had just graduated from the university and had a really hard time the first 4 months of employment, making it difficult for a positive first impression - he's mostly recovered and doing well. D was beginning a semester at the university and couldn't concentrate, breath, eat. She missed assignments, classes, sleep, etc. Some of it is D's personality but I guess I'm saying we just don't know how they'll respond to such information/news. D enrolled in therapy and is still medicating for her anxiety despite it being nearly a year.

It'll be hard on them either way - we know this. {{{Hugs}}} I recommend that you and H give them the comfort of home (rather than a dorm and roommate) to express themselves in private and with you, as they wish.

And as for the withdrawal - ugh. L talks aren't fun but good to be informed and aware.

Thank you D for your encouragement. My anger will get the best of me. You are right about the STFU smoothies. My friend told me to get a word document and vomit my anger right into it. Of course, I have the right to be angry but given our particular dynamic, my anger will shut him right down. It's a tough position to be in. I need him to hear me and understand me and somehow have to figure out how to make that happen sans anger. If I do decide that I want to make this M work, it will be up to me to put aside that anger.

Anyway, those conversations won't be happening any time soon. For now, I'm just starting to tell people what is happening and feeling very supported by my friends and family. They are all telling me how sorry they are and I'm thinking that I'm actually winning here. H is taking all his negative energy and leaving and I'm starting to see that as more of a gift.

Not much more to say at this point. H is gonna do what he is gonna do, that much is clear. I feel bad for him. He's clearly hurting and confused and depressed... like you say. D, you definitely have a good handle on what an MLC is.

I don't plan on interacting with him much during this time. When I told my dad what was happening, he said, "Make sure you stay in contact and go on dates." NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. Even though he and my mom have been divorced for almost 50 years, I don't think he understands what's really happening here.

And I'm coming to terms with it. Coming to terms with the REALITY of what's been happening vs. how I wanted things to be. He hasn't been a good H for a long time, and I deserve better - either from some new and improved version of him, or from another person who is maybe not so depressed.