I find myself in a situation which I would not have dreamed of ever being in. And which I have no idea how to get out of; or which course of action to really take.
This is going to be a somewhat longish write-up, and I would really value some perspectives from the community. In particular, I am looking for advice from some of the women on here that went through a midlife crisis (I believe that my wife is in one), and strategies that may work in supporting her while ensuring that the family does not suffer. I will write a brief background and am happy to expand on this.
Background
We started dating in 2012, with her always having been an independent and lively spirit. She could light up the room that she walked in, which drew me to her initially. Even back then, she hinted at issues with her parents as well as having done a lot to build herself up for a career, yet always just missing the opportunity to get to the level where she felt she should be. She was also quite clear that she did not want to be a mother and would want a nanny to support. I had always looked for an equal partner rather than someone who would take a step back, and thought that we would get support if we economically could.
We moved to her home country in 2013 and had our son in 2016. After having stayed home for a while, she took up a job again. Yet given my work, she did the drop-offs and pick-ups from nursery more often than me. At the age of two, our drama started with our son turning out to be severely epileptic - a hugely traumatic journey for both of us, with the fits luckily becoming under control after about a year. However, our son remained on heavy antiepileptics and she did not work for an extended period (I was so terrified that I slept in his room for 18 months and took a long time to move out).
While the fits stopped, our son (whom we had thought "normal" until then) completely shut down, could no longer speak, concentrate or give his attention. At the same time, my wife got pregnant with our daughter, who was born in early 2020. By this time, we understood that our son was on the autism spectrum (and has other issues), which led to her stopping work again after having restarted. During the pandemic, we moved to my home country for a while, where we lived well (we had agreed to not look at the money). However, she felt very isolated being an extrovert forced to live at a distance during the pandemic. She tried several times to set up different business ideas over the years, but never followed through. Something her parents tell me characterises her life - being full of energy and ideas, but somehow not being able to then stick to something and see it through. Which she sees differently, but there is something to this.
Post the pandemic, we moved back to London for schooling reasons - while she was initially pushing for it, she broke down in tears and had second thoughts towards the d-date. When I then took a stand and said we are going to do it. After having tried to buy a lot of properties (including in my country), we then bought a period property outside London. Her dream house in terms of the type of property, but not in an ideal location for her given her need for stimulus (e.g. theatre, art); and logistically turning out to be difficult. It is, however, a house which is difficult to sell for even close to the price that we paid. Which highlights that she has stepped out of reality.
Over the past 12 months, we had increasing friction - more fighting, and she had moved to sleep in a different room. Which I did not put much attention on, as she did not like our matress and we had slept apart for extended periods because of our kids in anyway. She had her own studio in the house to do art, and I did step up my efforts significantly to take on a lot of childcare (I have always done a good amount, but friends and family started telling me that I am like a working mum). During our summer holidays, one of my friends whom she had spoken to told me to be careful with my relationship - I discarded this but I should have listened.
D-day
One evening after having put the kids to bed, I went down and found her sitting in the front livingroom. I asked her if she had some time for me, wanting to have sex. We had a row during which she told asked me something she had asked me before "what do you actually want from life, what do you want to do with yourself" - which I had not taken as a serious question, but I now understand was important to her. She then told me she did not want to be with me, and left the house in tears. The next morning I tried hugging her thinking this had just been an outburst (she had let me hug her the nigh before), but she pushed me away asking if I had not been listening.
Speaking to her over the coming days, I told her how important she was to me and that I would do everything - she told me that she had walked down a long road and that she was now in "listening mode". That it might be to late. Then stuff such as "I would not be able to keep up with her". A couple of days later she told me that she thought we were done.
This took the legs out from under me. While I now recognise that there had been signs, this was completely unexpected. I fell into a real hole and pretty much immediately got therapy. The next 2 months were agony, with my mind trapped in negative emotional cycles of what she was doing (e.g. noticing she started wearing all the lingerie she had never put on) etc. However, I also realised that I had been deeply ground down during the pandemic, having been trapped in a mundanity of work and childcare. And never taking time to take care of myself, which she had repeatedly urged me to do. This is something that has bothered her and which I did not address beforehand, similarly to not consistently taking care of my looks and taking her hints of going somewhere without the kids.
My pivot
She started not just withdrawing from me, but also from the children. Given that our eldest is special needs and we have got complex logistics, I stepped up even more: - at least half of the logistics (next to a demanding full-time job) - breakfast every morning (she sleeps in - I suspect depression-linked, more later) - bedtime almost every evening (even when at the office, I try to come home on time) - at least one and mostly both days on the week-ends taking the kids out and doing fun things (I actually got told off the first time I took them to the theatre "why to you all of a sudden to this") - I sit with my son every evening to teach him to read - I stay over one night a week with both kids so that she has almost two full days free - I do a tremendous amount of the household (albeit she has in the last two weeks picked up a bit more again)
I have also started doing more for myself, finding time in the evenings to do sports at least twice a week. Which has always kept me zen and works its parts in feeling (and looking) good.
I have done lots of reading and listening to learn about relationships and the psychology and experiences of people in MLC or depression. This slowly helped me to let go. While this is not what I want, I have given her much more space, stopped talking about the relationship and taken a lot of stress of her.
Her situation
She is in her early 40s, has been unhappy for a long time (not being able to work, having to stay at home and giving up her career) and in retrospect must have been so pent up with frustration that she was like a volcano waiting to blow up. She is caught in a negative cycle of having made wrong decisions in her past (she should never have had children, she should have walked away 8 years ago etc) and gives me a lot of blame for her misery (I never did enough, I do not earn enough, I am the most boring person on earth).
She has no income of her own; no assets; has been spending significantly more than she can afford to (more now, but this has happened before), sitting on credit card debt that she cannot clear (more on this below).
The one constant at the moment is that she is done with me and does not want to try to reconnect (she told me over dinner in January that she thought we could try and build a bridge, but was not even sure if we were at the same river; and around 4 weeks back told me that she has no interest in trying to reconnect). However, she did go skiing with me for 5 days, but kept her distance and slept in a separate room. The challenge in this is that our life is so intertwined that we cannot separate (which she recognises as well): - We bought the house (she now blames me for this, like for everything) that we cannot get rid of without a big loss - She has no income, and we would struggle to afford two places (this house is too big to maintain as a single person) - Logistics are a nightmare, and a shared parental arrangement will not work - We need to think of the children, in particular the older one where schooling is difficult
She tells me that "we stopped growing together", which I am pretty sure she read in some of her books or heard in a podcast. She has taken great care for me to not see her naked for the past 4 months. However, she does initiate a lot of conversation with me on different topics.
She flipflops between long-term planning (she told me yesterday that we need to make a five year plan and move somewhere more interesting for her again), moving to a City she has been to for one week-end because she liked it, and then telling me that she needs to leave this place because she cannot take it anymore.
She does not want to work again in a corporate (this changes on- and off) and not below a certain salary that she feels she deserves. She is trying to establish herself as an independent and also considering academia / being an artist, but is frustrated at how slow this is and recognises that this may bring her more income.
I get told off for trying to "fix things" (I have always done this and she hates it she now tells me), yet she hinted at her debt situation several times (which I did not respond to) and now asked me if I can take out a loan to help as she cannot clear it on her own.
I do not think that she is in an affair; and I would not have thought that she is the person for this, although I fail to recognise who she has become on occasion. She has been verbally abusive to me a couple of times (telling me she is entitled to this) and cannot cope with having the children on her own the couple of days a week that I have to go to the office. She did try and do some exercise first thing in the morning for a while, but now mostly sleeps in and tells me she has difficulty sleeping.
She has taken to doing therapy which I asked her to and she agreed - she had depression before and recognises that this is an issue. I am not sure how open she is, and if she has found a therapist who is good enough to draw her out.
What do I want
I would like to ideally save my relationship, recognising that this is out of my control at the moment. My priority is my children and keeping them from a negative impact out of this; if she cannot cope at some point, I am willing to take them (which I am not sure she really wants, despite having withdrawn to a significant extent).
I believe that she needs to find a purpose in her life and I am trying to help without pushing her. Yet it is difficult seeing how far I go in this - she does need some realisation that she cannot want out on one hand but expect me to be exactly the same as before when things do not go as planned.
I am willing to give this real time. I would appreciate any thoughts and reflections on my situation, including what I could try (if anything additional) to help her; and potentially try to reconnect.
Yours is the typical blindsided-husband story I’ve read a thousand times on this website.
Wife is post-kids, 40+, has multiple challenges around her or her children’s health (or death of a parent) and has lost some sense of self by not being able to maintain her career.
Cue midlife crisis, depression, anxiety and her search for answers (only ever searching external to herself) which becomes more volatile by the day as she becomes increasingly depressed and desperate.
With the “help” of girlfriends and therapist (who wants her coming back weekly for years), wife decides you must be the reason for her unhappiness. The split second that “the reason for my unhappiness must be him” enters her brain, she goes on a (roughly) six month resentment journey. She builds resentment over every little thing you do (and don’t do). If you make her dinner you’re a weak, sucky man. If you don’t make her dinner, you’re a lazy a**hole.
Eventually, she starts fooling around (emotionally at first, but then physically). Eventually the bomb drop comes. But she doesn’t move out, she just says she doesn’t love you and can’t be with you (but conveniently keeps living with you as a security blanket while she looks elsewhere). She’ll say stuff like “I love you, but I’m not in love with you” or “I’d like to work this out, but I can’t see how”. This keeps her in your holding pattern. It’s a manipulation. She wants to leave, but she needs to find your replacement.
Husbands flip out. Their entire world has been turned upside down. Male instinct of “something is broken, it must be my fault and I have to fix it” kicks in and emotions are dialled to 100 with full energy directed at trying to impress and save this unhappy wife.
While you apologise for everything (including things that aren’t your fault) and do 100% of the chores to try and fix what she’s unhappy about, it plays into her narrative that it’s all your fault. You’re trying to fix things - but you’re actually reinforcing to her that it has all been your fault all along.
Husband ends up at DB website, information dumps the whole story. Gets warned there’s probably an affair person, but is sure there isn’t. Trickles along for next few months hoping a structured response gets slow results and helps to rebuild marriage on a solid foundation.
Eventually, some minor issue arises and the wife turns it into world war 3. As sure as night follows day, there’s been someone else all along. She has reached the end of her patience, has a backup guy and a lawyer telling her what she wants to hear, so roughly nine months after bomb drop she starts burning it all to the ground.
Cue messy divorce, lawyers sniffing around for scraps and big custody battle. Husband comes back here to this website regularly, hoping to be the bigger person and validate and listen to turn things around - but the ship has already sailed.
The strongest theme I see at this website is men (just like I did) who pander to a “this must be my fault and I need to fix it” mentality.
Were you a perfect husband? No. Was I? No. None of us are. But from what I’ve read, you are totally willing to identify and work on your shortcomings.
She is not. She wants EVERYTHING to be your fault and she will destroy your mental health making you feel like everything is your fault and responsibility to fix. Tell me this - how many times since this started has she said “I did abc wrong, I own it and I’m sorry, and I’m going to try and do xyz to make it up to you and rebuild our marriage”? I’m quietly confident for the last 3 years your wife has never done that. Not once. Don’t shoulder all the responsibility for her crap behaviour.
You need to understand this is not your fault. It’s her mid life crisis, and she will do anything in her own mind to make it your fault because she can’t possibly deal with the guilt of breaking her marriage.
There is nothing you can do, say, be or promise that is going to make her happy right now. Stop trying to analyse what she says, does, indicates or what you think she wants. She doesn’t even know what she wants! The only thing she knows is she is unhappy and it must be your fault.
Please stop pandering to this woman. Once you’ve read DB and DR by Michelle, maybe pickup a copy of “No More Mr. Nice Guy”. That nice guy behaviour that you hope will save your marriage is actually destroying it.
Be cool, calm, collected, honest and moral. If she’s sad - SHE is sad. If she is angry - SHE is angry. Don’t think for a second that you are responsible for her emotions.
You seem like a great guy, and someone would be lucky to have you in their life. Don’t go out looking for someone new, but if she wants to kick you to the kerb - let her!
Why would you want so desperately to be with someone who doesn’t even love or respect you? That’s messed up. You deserve better.
I don’t think I’ve ever read one story here from a husband who has come along and said “My wife said she loves me but isn’t in love with me. Also, she’s having an affair so I kicked her out, put her stuff on the sidewalk, changed the locks and called a lawyer.” That never happens on this site… because men like that who are strong, full of conviction, and won’t be walked over - their wives never leave them in the first place!
There’s tonnes of wonderful people here, who give great advice for free. If I had to choose one you should listen to the most, it’s Ready2Change. He is the guy who will teach you to stop being a worried, weak man who analyses his wife’s every move - to a man who is strong, confident, attractive - and someone only a fool would leave.
You’re a good human being, and you deserve someone who sees it. Time to hit the gym. Time to start every sentence with “I” instead of “she”. Find your hobbies. Join some clubs. Buy a mountain bike. Do a course. Go camping.
Thank you for this DnJ. It is a kafkaesque experience for me and I realise how much I have to learn.
I have worked hard to let go. However, there is a lot of hurt that will take me time to get over. No matter what I do, there are things where I am being pushed into living a life that I do not want to live. Which I will need to think about if there is ever any reconciliation - I read MrP's thread and it struck me that there is an element of where I am asking myself if I do want to be with someone with these behaviours.
The time element is an interesting reflection. I realised that she was unhappy for a long time. I thought that she would be happier coming back to the UK. Which she might be, or not. Reflecting on my children and the fact that I do really care for her (despite the above), I have resolved to give this time. Recognising that it may take long and get worse - which is something that I am still getting my head around.
I need to still get more out of the mindset of doing things / thinking of things that "fix" her as you put it. I have started detaching more, but this is something not natural to me as I am a kind person. However, I am getting around to the concept of doing things that seem unnatural to me.
Thank you for the advice and insights. It is helping a lot.
Why are you apologizing to someone who is having an EA on you (and your kids)?
Why are you engaging her at all?
Give yourself grace because little of this feels intuitive or natural when you are LBS.
When she says she wants to separate -- Yeah W. This situation does not work for me et all, either. I am making plans and moving ahead accordingly.
If she asks what ? I'm checking with a lawyer about my rights and options, I am separating my finances from yours, and I am going to see X, Y and Z for Easter with the kids.
Do not under any circumstances base your actions on her reactions or what you believe will be her reactions to your actions. That is controlling, manipulative, and co-dependent. If she acts cold or angry or whatever at you, so be it. Hear what she says, and validate her feelings. But do not be influenced or subordinate to them.
Don't tip toe or walk on eggshells or worry about the reaction of someone who is trampling all over your marriage by having an affair.
What are you trying to "achieve"? I still keep reading about she and her. Your goal and focus should be to save, protect, and better yourself and your kids from her boundary violations.
Paraphrasing her, what do you want out of your life? To be with someone who does not value you and your efforts for your family?
What would she need to do to in order to have a chance at another relationship with you?
Thank you DnJ and ready. You have given me lots to think about.
Comfortable life - mainly yes. Apart from that I do much more around the house, and probably an equal amount of childcare. I mainly take the kids out both days on the week-ends to make sure that they have fun. Which does come at a consequence for the time I have for myself.
Eating with the kids is communal; we have been sleeping separately for a while even before this, and there is no intimacy at all. She does speak to me a lot, and I have taken to mainly listening. It is interesting and has given me things to think about. As well as a glimpse into confusion, fantasy and reliving past choices (I think she spends a lot of time thinking about this). She does not agree with the traditional role of a woman / as a mother, yet I do not understand what she thinks is the alternative.
I struggle with the creating loss point, and do feel that I am still being taken for granted and seen as available. I need to give this further thought, yet I did recently make clear to her that for me there are no "creative" solutions but either reconciliation or a separation including selling the house and splitting assets. Which I do not really want as that spells pain for all, in particular the children. To whom this is not fair.
I am working hard on not being drawn into any argument, not doing anything that she would feel as incendiary or not like (e.g. sharing with others - I have drawn back from speaking to anyone except for a select few). My focus is on taking out negativity and having more positive emotions in the household. Walking on eggshells and being a doormat...I probably overdo certain things such as in the household and need to take more time where I am out doing things. I will focus on the latter first. I have a week of holidays on my own coming up.
Another round of spontaneously getting told how "great" I am this afternoon. Started off by her talking about switching therapist (which is a good thing). The only positive thing she says she took from the therapist is that she always put everyone else first, and not herself. Which has some reality to it, but is far from the entire story.
Then she started talking about needing change - a job and going into the City a couple of days a week will not cut it. She does not want to be in an office. She wants an interesting life - when I ask what that would look like I get told "you are not able to understand". We have been there before. She wants to do big things to the house but there is not enough money. Me not having been promoted (again recently; pretty annoying) is part of the fact that she cannot have an interesting life (huh?), and why I cannot be part of it.
The thing that I am a bit concerned about is the statement that small incremental changes will not cut it, but she needs to blow everything up. Which I have read in some MLC / depression articles, so she may have read that somewhere.
I do not think she will do anything crazy given that she keeps bringing up that she wants to be with the children and take them along.
Thank you Catman for your thoughts, I appreciate it. Will try to keep a healthy distance and refrain from advice etc., which is hard at times given that it hurts to see her suffer like this.
DnJ, I have been thinking about your post. Time and patience is what I am aiming for - irrespective of where this ends. I want her to not end up in a worse situation than she currently is, and it feels like she might be heading there if I am not around tbh.
Hey LB23. I'm glad you found your way to this forum. It sounds like you're doing some good, initial work on examining your contributions to how your M got to this point. I've similarly been dealing with a MLC spouse and can relate to much of what you're describing.
As others have suggested, the only person you can control is yourself. You didn't break your spouse; you can't fix her. Work on yourself solely for the purposes of your own improvement - this will make you more attractive in general, help bolster your confidence, and benefit your kids most.
Regarding goals like having your W join you on trips to see family or spend time alone together with you - I hate to say it but I recommend abandoning those goals for now. As an earlier poster suggested, you need to give your W lots of time and space. She can't miss you you're always around, nor can she realize that you're not the problem in her life. As long as you're around, she can pin the blame on you for why her life isn't going as she'd like it to. When things don't work out and you're also not there, "maybe" she'll see beyond blaming you.
Also, in general accommodating or enabling a spouse's behavior (like not performing an equitable share of chores, childcare, etc.) isn't a good idea from what I've read, at least if/when someone may have an underlying mental health issue. I can see in the short-term picking up a bit more than your fair share because, to me, that happens in marriage (one spouse might shoulder a higher workload than the other and vice versa). Only you can determine what's reasonable in your situation. And, if you're not seeing an individual therapist, I hope you'll consider doing so. They can be a great sounding board for these things.
You're off to a good start. Do pick up Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy and make time to absorb the content. It can help when you are uncertain about what to do/say and may not be able to leverage this board. Good luck!
Bit of an odd day again - she is better after having been pretty ill. I have a bad cold myself but had to do all of the childcare over the past 5 days on my own. This morning she had some friends over and then went back to withdrawing from childcare. Granted they were difficult, but statements like "I dont want to do this" and swearing is not on in front of the kids.
She is frustrated that she is not making any progress regarding work; old contacts not responding to her and she is lost about what to do. Miffed about something that another former colleague did. Says that why bother doing anything. Talked about wanting a different life again. Whatever that means.
I stayed neutral and validating, which I have gotten better at. She does seek to talk to me a lot, but remains emotionally quite distant.
I was a bit surprised this evening by her not doing anything despite knowing that I am ill. The kitchen needed cleaning, the living room looks like a bomb went off and both kids were awake and demanding. She retreated to her room and was reading. She did more in the past two weeks before she got ill, it would be nice if she does not fall back into that habit.
Right now you are fighting with her a lot. You'd achieve more right now by setting your focus on being an attractive man with better things to do than argue back and forth over minutia.
It took me many months to get close to this. You may be faster or slower but I promise you that you can decide to be your own motivator or your own detractor.
PMA 24/7. Attitude-thoughts-words-actions: set these in the right direction.
Hey LB. Good work on the GAL front. Keep building your portfolio of "things to do" and over time it just becomes a natural habit of things you enjoy, that keep your mind busy, and improve your life on a few dimensions.
You talk about "drawing her out from behind her defensive walls" and, from what I've read about your situation, that feels a bit premature to me. We often talk here about first and completely dropping the rope (letting go of trying to control or influence your spouse, the relationship, trying to drive a R). I'd suggest there is some work to be done to focus just on you and your kids. Let W do what she's going to do in response to that. MWD also talks about "acting as if" you're doing fine, moving forward, etc. with your life, irrespective of what W does. This is where (if it is going to happen) W may start to get curious about the "new" person you've become, the self-improvement you're demonstrating, your contentment, and other things that can be seductive.
DnJ gave me some good advice about events like those you describe and hopefully, you're already following it. But if not, be sure that you're just sharing what you and the kids will do and leaving the door open for her to opt in or not. Be unconcerned if she chooses not to join you and, if she does join you, be positive and avoid reading too much into it for now. Just live in the moment and soon perhaps you'll piece together lots of positive moments with any luck.
Lastly, regarding being "friends" or helping financially with getting a coaching business up and running, I often refer to myself as having been "fired" from being a husband as long as the D is pending. I try to avoid doing things that are "benefits" of being a spouse and even one of my friends. I'm treating W more like an acquaintance in general and more concerning things involving our D13. It helps me in most cases maintain a good boundary. If you're still doing things you'd do as a husband or to the same extent, that is like letting a spouse have their cake and eat it too (cake eating).
It can be hard when you feel like your spouse might be making an effort to see if the relationship can be repaired so there are no hard and fast rules here. We LBSs can often want so badly for things to work out, to reconcile, etc. that we're at risk of seeing things too optimistically. I've found this board very helpful in that respect. Otherwise, keep up the good work!
Thank you - I have already been hitting the gym hard for months even before and results are showing. Bought some new clothes and still looking at more. Even got a compliment from one of the female friends of my wife's today while she was there.
I bought the book that you mentioned and am busy reading it. Need to look a bit more into my behaviours around her and look how I start drawing her out from behind her defensive walls.
She remains distant towards me but appears for the time being to no longer question the family unit, which she did before. - She came out on an outing with me and the kids today - She is coming with us on Easter holidays to my family (even if she feels uncomfortable as she knows they are aware) - She looked into family summer holidays on her own after having pushed back 6 weeks ago when I brought it up - She is making some longer-term around the house and even the family potentially moving
She did speak to me a fair bit today to get my advice regarding a friend whom she is struggling with, and about getting a coach to help her in setting up her own business. She needs money for this and I have been supportive as I do want her to be able to get to an independent position where she can take care of herself. I am a bit confused on the balance between being a friend and establishing some level of consequence for being "sacked".
Booked the trip I mentioned the last time. Looking at spending more time with single friends, and have reached out to a couple of female friends to get perspectives around relationships, behaviours, etc
Count how many times you used the word "she".
Your goal should be zero. Lot more of I and Me and "the kids".
So she is now hellbent on separation. Told me today that I always think too much black and white, and that we should be thinking out of the box. I have a suspicion that this means she wants me to suggest that I move out - and maybe her emotional affair or friends get to move in!?
Unfortunately will now need to consult a lawyer. I will not suggest any steps but look at protecting myself and the kids.
I think my confrontation of her on Monday brought this to the fore. Not sure if otherwise we could have coexisted for a while longer given her recent musings about holidays together etc. Now I have become even more of the horrible man she has to get rid of. I do not feel great about where this has gotten to. I could have done better...but now I am where I am and need to accept that things will not be easy for a while.
I have lost the love of my life. I am heartbroken.
Spent the last couple of days licking my wounds and feeling sorry for myself. Cannot change what happened on Monday - pushed her further away and she is (if possible) even colder. But fundamentally nothing has changed.
She cannot get me out of the house and I am not going to leave my kids. Will check with a lawyer if I have any exposures / risks, but will otherwise return to business as usual. Give her space and focus on myself. Where relevant, enforce boundaries. Establish a routine of going out after work and on week-ends now that the days are lengthening. Try to feel good about life.
Probably in for a bit of a rougher ride in the coming weeks. Easter holidays coming up though which will give me a break with family and friends abroad. Yay
Also will definitely heed your point about not fighting again @ready. Thank you for the thoughts
Thank you Bustorama. I have reread some of the guidance on the forum and some of what you guys have contributed on here, and it has taken on a different meaning to when I first read it.
I have been acting out of emotion too much. I thought I had this under better control by now, but I did not. One of the things I struggle with is falling back into despair and complaining, which is not helpful as we all now. I can only control myself, and need to focus on that.
It is an interesting situation to be in, where I have some figuring out to do of what I find important and want out of my life. I have started making some changes in terms of being more active and making sure to spend time at work. Building a social circle is now my next priority.
