Divorcebusting.com Forums Thread Like Summary - Newbie Here

Hi all -
I have spent a considerable amount of time on these boards and I wish I would have found so much sooner. I didn't understand what was going on in my life with my wife and how my behavior and reactions put me in the situation that I'm in. This is my first post so bear with me. I'll try to give as much info as I can without being long winded.

My wife is definitely having a MLC. She is 49 and in the past 6 months or so has lost 20lbs, changed her wardrobe to much more revealing clothing - tasteful for the most part but a few outfits not appropriate, a lot of Botox, fillers, skin tightening procedures (no surgery as of yet), a whole new group of friends that she socializes with, much more drinking, spending money like crazy.

Our current situation is modified separation but living under the same roof, I sleep on the couch. We have to children D9 & D12 and stepson 26 so most of our conversations revolved around them. There is occasional intimacy but it is referred to as sex not ML - I have questions for the group about this. No OP for either of us but I suspect an EA with a much younger man. There have been a few
times asking for a divorce has been mentioned, her moving out or asking me to move out, her saying she is going to remove her rings but so far that is just talk - none of it has happened. Oh yes - I have gotten the ILYBNILWY a few times. Some days she says she wants this to work out, other days she is saying maybe she wants to see other people. I know....don't believe anything she says. We have been married for 19 years and together for 26. She has told me that she was unhappy in the marriage the entire time and that she has been a verbally battered wife the entire time. I have never laid a hand on her but definitely own the verbally abusive part at times. We had an extremely happy marriage IMO up until about 6-8 months ago when I think MLC really took hold. I think its important to mention that my wife has been on hormone replacement therapy for about a year now. She believes its a god send and has helped her physically and mentally. I do believe the physically part but not sure on the mentally. I have read online that HRT can help with MLC but I honestly dont know. I am hopeful that it shortens the lifespan of it!

I started really employing DB techniques about 2 weeks ago. Before then, I made most of the same mistakes others have made - begging, bribing, constant R talks, etc. All of which drive her further away. Since then I've notice some slight changes in her behavior towards me at times. Still very angry at me most days but a little more talkative. One of her complaints throughout our R is that she wanted more attention. So the DB techniques were hard because I thought that it would push her further away. But I'm coming around to the fact that I was wrong.

I honestly don't know what phase of her MLC journey she is in because its not day to day - its minute to minute how she act. I really believe that the hormone replacement therapy plays a roll in how she feels at certain times. I have a ton of questions for the group and could provide more details on my current situation. I am so thankful to have found this website. I have spent hours on the internet researching my situation and this has been by far the most helpful.

Hey Keyser!

Welcome to the boards, but I’m sorry you’re here.

You’re in great hands. We will help carry and support you through this journey.

I agree completely with the comments regarding moving back to the master bedroom. A large percentage of men who arrive at this site are living in fear or have been beaten into submission by a woman threatening to leave.

Ironically, you won’t be attractive if you keep trying to please or appease her. She won’t like it when you move back to the master bedroom. She may scream, yell, threaten or move to the couch herself.

Don’t react, don’t argue, don’t be controlling and just listen to her concerns.

“That sounds tough for you.”
“It sounds like you’re upset about this.”
“You must be confused I’m moving back to the bedroom.”

But don’t waiver. Make sure you move back in before telling her and when she’s gone out, so there’s no chance of physical conflict. The only thing to say other than the validation statements above is “I’m choosing not to leave this marriage and I’m sleeping in our bed. But if you don’t want to sleep here, I respect your choice.”

Know that while she will be angry (because women who attempt to control men by threatening divorce can’t stand it when they feel like they’re losing control of you), she will actually start to respect you for being a strong man.

Keep your emotions in check. Calm, reasonable, strong.

Good luck.

You are catastrophising. You are seeing the worst in everything. Calm down!

The biggest question here, is why does she have to ask you for money? Doesn’t she have access to all your accounts? If she does but she had just run out of cash, then it’s completely okay for her to ask for some cash if you have some on you.

Best answer: Yeah no dramas babe, take what you want, but leave me $100 because I’m going to a bar tomorrow night. You need to be home to watch the kids.

Not texting her is an EXCELLENT choice. Well done! Don’t get embroiled in her toys out the pram BS.

Women test men by seeing if they’ll be an emotional rock.

Option 1 - apologise, be worried she’s angry, try to give her cash, get upset when she throws it at you, message after to apologise - WEAK AND UNATTRACTIVE man

Option 2 - be cool, let her take some cash, if she goes full cray cray and starts throwing it, just ignore and be unintimidated - STRONG AND ATTRACTIVE man

You did fine. Stop being scared of a little teenage girl having a tantrum!

Pit in your stomach and nauseous? Why? Feelings are temporary. Tomorrow she probably won’t even remember what happened.

Do you know how many marriages were decided or broken on how one partner gave one weird look to the other on one occasion? NONE. It’s not nearly the big issue you are making it out to be.

And you know what - if someone leaves you because you looked at them weirdly, is that really someone you want to be married to?

She sounds like a spoiled little brat TBH.

That’s good Keys, it’s def not just your fault. A marriage is a 50/50 partnership and we certainly have made our fair share of errors too, however we are in a clearer mindset to understand this and do the work in ourselves to be better. The MLC spouse isn’t mature enough to see or understand that. They just want to shift blame to us because it’s easier than them having to look within and work on themselves. I don’t think they physically have the mental maturity to even see or understand it anyway. My H is literally turned into a 17 year old. In sweats all day, video games whenever he can, drinks… still somehow works and ticks off duties with the kids but that’s it.
I know there’s underlying depression there ( masked by all the drinking that’s increasing ).
I would say your W may have some too. When women are sad or down that’s all we want to do is sit in bed all day and basically curl into a ball and distract ourselves with tv or on her phone in her case.

You know through all this heartache all this anguish I have experienced for months ( and we all know how horrible those first few weeks after Bd are) as sad and down and empty of tears I was, I didn’t spend a single day curled up in bed. And that to me is something that I’m proud of. I don’t know how I did it, how I willed the energy and courage to get up every day and face my responsibilities (I think the kids were a huge factor and reason) but I didn’t become someone who collapsed in the face of adversity. And I would say, I imagine you are much the same. So while our MLC spouses may fall into their own holes they have dug, remember we stood tall and strong and every day we are getting stronger and better( all the while they are not)
So keep DB’ing as hard as it may seem. It’s working-not just for your W but for you. You do it for you

Thank you everyone for the replies and support. It makes this extremely difficult situation easier by being a part of this community.

Sunflyer - I've read a lot of your posts even before you posted on mine and loved your Manifesto. Its crazy how so many of us with presumably different backgrounds, races, religions, upbringing, life experiences, etc all have or going through the same situation with people who exhibit the same characteristics.

Yesterday we had as "normal" a day as we've had in a little while. My W asked a few questions about our R. I answered them but then tried to change the subject. We are not in a spot where anything will be resolved by us talking about things. I think she let her guard down for a bit because we were all together hanging out by the community pool. But she did not the DB techniques because it was such a switch from the constant R talks, the following her around the house like a puppy, the text messages, etc. I was doing all the wrong things and when I started DB she noticed right away. She told me I was being "distant" and why the change. I validated her feelings and moved on.

The issue with DBing that a few of us face is that for our W, its more of the same. Meaning when my W and I used to have arguments, I would just retract and not really speak to her unless spoken to and keep my distance. Recently when I started DBing, thats what she thought/thinks I am doing.

Hello K

Yep, the rollercoaster ain’t a fun time. Detachment is the single best thing you can do for yourself. It allows you to stop being dragged about by W’s words and behaviour. You basically get off the ride and even leave the park.


I understand and empathize with you. Eventually you will lessen your need for glimmers and breadcrumbs of where W is, or might be, along her journey. Besides there are not a lot of “good” data points anyhow, as you said, believe nothing they say and only half of what they do. The extrapolated projection from such a data set doesn’t have much value.

Hope lives within the possibilities. The future is unwritten and unknown, and full of possibilities.

Remember, a beginner’s mind from DR. See things differently. Do a 180. Act as if. GAL.

Whatever changes you make, make them for you, and make then permanent. W is going to be doubtful for a while to any improvements of you. Just keep at it, and have faith.

D

Anger is better than indifference. Do not fear her anger. Do not supplicate. Do not get baited into an argument. You are the rock. Any emotional response from you will help her "justify" her actions.

THE FIRST ONE TO REACT EMOTIONALLY LOSSES.

Kind - thank you for that. A bit of tough love and a kick in the pants. I guess I deserved it and needed it.

Yes - 100 percent a PA is a deal breaker. I can positively say that. I couldn't go back to her after that. I'm hanging on by a thread as it is. I suspect the EA and may be looking into things too much regarding the PA. I hope it hasn't happened but if I find out, then its game over. I asked her and of course she denied it but some parts of me think she'd tell me. She already told me several vicious things already so I almost think she'd relish in the thought of telling me. Thats what the alien is like.

I'm making plans to do something Saturday night without the kids.

To answer a few questions - I was in counseling for 2 months when this started and it didn't help me at all so I dropped out. I think I'm going to sign up for the DB coaching on here. Its cheaper and would probably be more effective.

I lost a lot of weight because when I stress, I don't eat. I lift weights 4-5 times a week and have for years. I love it and even through all of this, I still do it. It more effective then a counseling session for me. I honestly look as good as I ever have with my shirt off. A little loose skin on my waist for abs are showing. I don't have the muscle mass I had 10 years ago but I'm more defined.

I need to get rear end in gear and starting doing me. I know it. I need to get out more and do more things. This has lasted months and I haven't really done anything other then a two times going out with some friends.

Thanks again for the response. You spent a lot of time on it and I appreciate it.

This feels difficult for you, but it’s actually great. Strong men don’t bow down to the pressure and bullying of an angry and manipulative wife.

You’ve done nothing wrong. She can be angry, that’s her dumpster fire. Just let it burn.

She’ll respect you more if you stand up to her and ignore her emotional games.

So what are you going to do?

Hi K,
sorry to see you here, we all know what you are going through because we all have been there, some are at the beginning of this horrible journey and some are further along. The advice you get here is priceless, life saving even. Hang on to the rope.
I get what you are saying about fearing the PA because for you that would mean the marriage is over. I do feel the very same way with my H. I can pretty much take it all, all except that.
All I can say is, in order to survive this, detach, detach, detach, love her with your mind and not your heart. Easier said than done but once you get there and you focus on yourself instead life gets easier.
MLC is like a raging tornado. We can't do anything while it's doing it's thing but hunker down and ride it out. And when the storm clears we can start assessing the damage and rebuild.
Hang in there...

Hello K

These folks can hot and cold, and emotionally ping pong about. W’s path is more emotionally driven than rationally driven. And as such, you’ll see some wildly conflicting behaviours and conversations.

Thing is, during the current moment she feels whatever it is she feel. A while later, her feelings change, and so does her mannerisms and behaviours. From blaming you, to cordial, to rage, to how was your day. It’ll make your spin trying to keep up.

Like Kind’s wise post, validate her feelings and then be quiet. No agreeing, no arguing, just acknowledging her feelings.

By the sounds of things you did pretty well, and should be proud of yourself. I do have a few ideas for you for next time.


Validating takes a while to get the hang of. All the strikethrough stuff is too much pressure and takes away from her feelings. You are inserting and letting her know of your own feelings. Example: I would like to work on this marriage but understand if it’s something she is no longer interested in.

You’ve told W all that, likely plenty of times. Let this be the last time. It’s not like she’s forgot where you stand on things. And she kinds of needs to.

For the actual bit regarding her feelings, ensure her feelings are the focus of the statement. The most important thing in validating is to show that you heard her. Something like, wow your day sounded overwhelming. I’m sorry it was such a frustrating day. Thank you for looking after D12’s appointment.


To go a bit further. This was a text. Let it be. Unlike face to face conversation, no immediate response was needed. Especially when you’re angry. This buys you some time to calm and figure out what to say. And it gives time for her feelings to maybe change, maybe even soften to something easier to validate.

Her text was venting, not really a question. Would’ve likely been better to not text, come home (even with her in the bed looking at her phone), and then validate her terrible day.

Anyhow, like you said, this DB stuff ain’t easy. Keep at it man. You’re doing fine.

D

I'm not going to lie - it was a little encouraging how she has been acting for the past couple of days. I'm not saying its been all arms around me shouting I love you from the roof top. Its just a little less of the coldness. She even kissed me before she left today which she hasn't done in weeks. She still blames me everything, she still thinks this is all my fault, she still things I have been a terrible husband for 20 years, etc. None of that has went away. But it was looking like a corner was turned. I will continue to GAL and detach. Honestly, I was doing a very good job of it so I was thinking the DBing was working. It obviously had an effect but I'm sure I didn't bust the divorce in such a short amount of time.

Hi Keyser!

Let me be brutally honest:

- I’d bet my left *** she has an affair person. That’s the reality here.

- You’ve stated an affair is a deal breaker. You need to be REALLY careful what you say, because it can come back to haunt you - and in fact can actually encourage her to keep having affairs and keep you at arm’s length. Is that TRULY your deal breaker? If she walked in tomorrow and said “I’ve been banging Steve from accounts” would you calmly tell her to leave, pack up her stuff, throw it on the sidewalk, change the locks and file immediately with a lawyer? Because if the answer to that is absolutely yes, then that’s a great boundary and you can make it clear. But if there’s any hesitation at all, or you’d have to think about it, you shouldn’t be telling her or yourself it’s a deal breaker. Marriages do recover from physical affairs. What they DONT recover from is weak men who verbalise a boundary and then let their wives break it. Think very carefully on this.

- You seem to be struggling emotionally (like I and many others did and still do). Are you getting professional counselling help? You’re unlikely to make significant progress on your sadness/anxiety/attractiveness without external help. We can’t really do that here. You should get some help from a counsellor /psychologist.

- Tell me about your eating/exercise/sleeping at the moment.

- R2C’s advice was spot on. It probably seems counter intuitive to you, but I’m here to say that R2C/DNJ/cadet/Job etc give incredibly good advice and it’s worth heeding. Tell me, if you were in her shoes, who would you most likely to attracted to - the man who just sits at home, watching the kids whenever you demand and pining for you to come home to talk about staying married … or the guy who tells you to watch the kids, plans his weekend and goes out to bar with some mates - or goes mountain biking, or go karting, or to the shooting range? This sounds a lot easier than it is - but if you want to be attractive, you need to be attractive. ATM she sees a quiet, scared, weak man.

- You probably think if she found photos of you and your mates at a bar with lots of women, she would be mega angry and reconciliation would be less likely. I’m here to tell you it’s the complete opposite. Women only want something they can’t have. If they see you having a great time with your friends and attractive women, she will suddenly respect you and want back in. It’s very different for men and women. If men see women out and about, flirting lots of men, they aren’t attracted to them because they think they’re cheap and flippant. If a woman sees a man getting lots of attention from other women, they find them attractive. At the moment, she sees that you’re not commanding of respect and she can click her fingers and get you back at any time she wants. That’s not attractive. And it makes her feel SAFE to have an affair and trash her marriage. This is why MWD is so right with GAL activities. They’re useful for three main reasons - they keep your body and mind busy, they make you more attractive to your spouse, and lastly, if you do divorce a you’ve made a 12 month head start on finding yourself and your happiness.

If I’m totally honest, I’m not holding out much hope there will be reconciliation here - because you’re being a passenger. Waiting for her MLC/HRT issues to settle and coming here asking the board for advice on the smallest of issues.


She’s thinking of leaving. Personally, I wouldn’t be giving any PDAs or compliments. Don’t be deliberately nasty, but why would you compliment and reward someone who doesn’t want to be with you? Imagine a dog pissing on the carpet because you didn’t give it enough treats. Would you fix that by giving it a treat each time it pisses on the carpet? What message does that send?

MWD says that of what you’ve been doing hasn’t worked, then it’s time to do something different.

Sitting around, apologising constantly, giving compliments and sex when you sort of suspect an affair - how well is that working out for you?

She likes PDAs. Fair enough. What do you like? Do you like PDAs? Do you like it when she sits on your lap at a bar? Do you like it when she wears sexy underwear or says dirty things in your ear in public, or sends you flirty messages?

What do YOU like? I’m guessing while you’re worrying so much about giving her what she wants, you’re not getting anything that you like.

Your job in marriage is not to make the other person happy at your expense. It’s that you are both happy and single people, but BOTH of you further enrich each other’s lives.

You’ve owned your previous faults. Good on you! And I expect from now on you won’t make the same mistakes again. But please don’t slip into this “I must make her 100% happy all the time and do everything perfectly” mentality. You’ve owned it. You’ve apologised to her. You’re going to act differently in the future.

Now get off the couch and be a strong, confident, happy many who commands respect, who is fun to be around 👍

Good luck!

Hey Keyser!

A quick caveat to my next post… I’m not known around here for being gentle. Sometimes people need a 2x4 to the head, and so this is just written in the hope it helps.


I’m sorry to tell you this, but your marriage is already over.

You’re on a divorce busting bulletin board. She or you sleeps on the couch. She’s losing weight at great speed, buying new clothes, you suspect at least an EA with another man and she’s told you she’s not in love with you.

Conceptually, you see a marriage that has 1% chance of saving and you identify that last 1% string holding it together as whether she’s having a PA.

What does that mean? Well you are terrified of that string snapping, and so you have everything hanging in whether she’s having or had a PA. To her, you look like a frightened little mouse hiding in the corner waiting for her boot to squish you and put you out of your misery.

You need to reframe this all.

Your marriage is done, finished, over. She’s unhappy, she’s looking external by getting fit and buying new clothes, she’s not sleeping in your bed, she’s not hiding it from the kids, and you can bet all her friends and family know she’s leaving. They are all major hurdles that stop someone from divorce, and from where I’m sitting, she’s already jumped over most of them.

You are placing so much emphasis on PA or no PA, that you’re a deer in the headlights to other major issues here. And really, what’s the difference between a full EA which you suspected in your first post and a PA which is exactly the same thing, except where there’s some P in V. There’s no difference to the long term success of a marriage whether it’s an EA or a PA.

Because you’re so afraid of PA and making it your deal-breaker line in the sand, you aren’t taking ACTION to become a strong and assertive and attractive man in her eyes. You should move into the main bedroom, but you’re afraid of her. If you move back in and she says “well I’ve been having a PA”, what changes? Nothing! She’s been having it anyway 🤷‍♂️

Are you afraid that she’s actually having a PA, or are you afraid of what that means you have to do if you find out?

That’s what is really going on here. You fear PA because it’s your line in the sand. You even said that on your second post.

You really need to drop the fear and the obsessing over PA.

Accept that your marriage in all practical terms is already over. Move back into the master bedroom. Stop fearing the one thing (losing her) that it appears happened 6-12 months ago.

Set about a rapid self improvement program (with professional help such as a DB coach or counsellor) where you prioritise:
- self realised and driven happiness (rather than externally driven by her or your marriage status)
- GAL activities (hobbies, desires, time spent alone doing things just for you)
- physical fitness transformation
- mental fitness transformation
- a master of your own emotions and resilience

Get that pile of things in order, and you’ll be attractive to her once more (generally takes 3-5 years). That inevitably leads to one of three things:
1. She realises you’re attractive and you reconcile
2. She realises you’re attractive and wants you back but you don’t want to be with her any more
3. She keeps doing what she’s doing, never wakes up, but you’re happy in yourself

What you fear - it’s already happened.

Time to detach, stop living through fear and become a strong, resilient man and a lighthouse for your kids. Because what you are right now - she doesn’t want a part of it.

Good luck 💙

My 2 cents:

Keep up the DBing. No R talk.

If these are 180:
Behave more masculine. Be supper confident. Dress for the occasion in clothes that she has not seen you in. New cologne as well. Lead. Do not fear interacting with other ladies while in her presence.

IF you normally go home after the show, do some research now and see if you can find something else YOU would like to do afterwards. Talk to the other guy about it before hand and you both tell the ladies you two have a surprise for them after the show.

Do not be supplicating. Do not be predictable. Do not be boring. Have a great time.

Thank you - thank you - thank you! Everyone's advice has been spot on. If I am being honest, when I first started on here, I was skeptical. One of the things my W wants is more attention and DBing is counterintuitive. But the more I buy into it, the more I can see some changes. I don't question advice anymore, I just follow it.

Yesterday was another NEW normal day. She had a few bouts of anger and I was calm, didn't react to it like I normally would and continued on with my DBing. We all went out shopping and to dinner where for a few hours she totally normal. She brought up the R and said at one point said that she wants to this work out and keep her family together. I listened to her but then changed the subject. My kids were able to hear some of the conversation so it was best to move on anyway.