Geez LH. Staying for the kids. To teach them that this is how to behave in a marriage?
Not pro-D but man, gotta think about what the kids are really learning in your friend's sitch ...
Yeah it’s not good. I think they at least try to keep it from the kids. No different than teaching kids that cheating and being a doormat are acceptable. It all comes down to fear of the unknown. Scary for many people.
I wish I were going home to a house in which W would be somewhere else.
Unfortunately that is the sad reality of IHS. I remember the days of the dread when I pulled in the driveway.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I have a hard time conjuring up feelings of empathy towards W in light of what's going on.
That's ok Doug. You are entitled to your feelings.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I would certainly like to feed the compassion and kindness wolf but it's proving more difficult these days.
Until you lived in IHS eats easy to come up with clever euphemisms.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I'm trying to latch onto LH's oft-repeated line about "You won't always feel this way" but I imagine I may have to do the heavy lifting after W gets a better job unless it turns out she's somehow motivated to do it herself (heavy lifting = setting D in motion).
Maybe or maybe not. She may file tomorrow. I do promise you though you will not always feels this way.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I'm a little disappointed in myself for not being better at this point at "dropping the rope" but I feel like I'm being too lenient with this waywardness.
Dropping the rope in IHS is extremely difficult.
Originally Posted by Doug54
FWIW, I'm taking sex off the table.
Good for you! Not easy though.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I don't know if there's any point seeing that W has to traverse this landscape of MLC herself.
Yep it's her journey to take.
Originally Posted by Doug54
There's a little segment in DR from the chapter on infidelity called "When S/he Won't End the Affair." I certainly question why I'm putting up with it.
Yep. MWD talks about the last resort technique, after the last resort techniques, ultimatums and going dark. These are proactive, powerful things that show you are serious. They almost never get mentioned or implemented on the forums. The nature of a forum leads to lots of analysis about every conversation, text and facial expression in the relationship. The only real change you need to make it clear, solid, boundaries and being hard-core about what you want and need. People respond to that. Being an emotional chameleon, "trying" to be detached doesn't work. Set boundaries, set ultimatums. This is hard, but, it helps avoid all the back and forth. Does she want to be married to you or not? Thus far it doesn't sound like it. Act on that. If you want something else, state it. You can say, "If you want to work on this marriage, fine, if you don't, I have some decisions to make in the next few weeks." Strength and clarity are attractive.
LH is right, LRT is not mentioned as much as some other tools. It is something that you absolutely have to be 100% sure you can follow through on, or it will rebound on you in a bad way.
Most people are afraid to do a LRT because they aren't ready to face the consequences of their own boundary setting.
As with everything you do, you need to mean what you say, say what you mean and follow through for this to work, and even then you may not get the result you want. So you better be sure before you pull the trigger on a LRT.
Once you are sure, though, and you do take that step, there is a peace that comes to you knowing you've done all you can. That's very empowering.
Yep. MWD talks about the last resort technique, after the last resort techniques, ultimatums and going dark. These are proactive, powerful things that show you are serious. They almost never get mentioned or implemented on the forums. The nature of a forum leads to lots of analysis about every conversation, text and facial expression in the relationship. The only real change you need to make it clear, solid, boundaries and being hard-core about what you want and need. People respond to that. Being an emotional chameleon, "trying" to be detached doesn't work. Set boundaries, set ultimatums. This is hard, but, it helps avoid all the back and forth. Does she want to be married to you or not? Thus far it doesn't sound like it. Act on that. If you want something else, state it. You can say, "If you want to work on this marriage, fine, if you don't, I have some decisions to make in the next few weeks." Strength and clarity are attractive.
LH, I know you have a gift for remembering all kinds of details in different posters' situations, so I'm fairly sure you're aware it behooves me to wait until this summer at the earliest before bolting. In fact, I don't think you have advised me to do otherwise.
That said, would you mind throwing me any details of how you came to move out for 3 months during your situation? The one who wants a D should be the one to move out, right?
When I spoke with a lawyer last May, he told me that if one person really wants the divorce, they usually need to be the one to move out, at least to get the ball rolling. I have a colleague who said a judge ruled on which spouse had to vacate in her situation (there were kids involved). I have no idea how common that one is. There's also the counselor from when W and I did the few sessions last summer who said people agree to lie about their IHS timeline to speed up the process and no one is the wiser as far as the paperwork. In my state (and most?) you have to be separated for a year when there are kids before D goes through.
Doug I left my house the night it unfolded to stay with a friend. Basically lived out of a suitcase for 3 months. This was all before I found DB. The bakery was definitely open and I was serving cake big time.
You can D and live together until it’s final and whoever finds another house. Although not ideal it’s definitely doable. I’m not a don’t do the heavy lifting supporter. Do what you need to do to get the best deal and move it along. The longer it drags out the worse it feels for both parties.
This of course is only if you are ready to pull the trigger.
Lots of feelings and thoughts stir when the kids leave the nest. Did I do a good job raising them? Gosh, it’s going to be quiet. Now what do I do? Oh my, I’m old. And such.
When my first of four kids left for university, it hit W hard. She started upon a pretty sad path. She became consumed by dark tormenting feelings.
She started exercising to the extreme. Like 6 hours a day, on top of running her daycare, gardening, and so on. She lost a bunch of weight. A dangerous amount. She was a fit slim 5’10” gal and really had no extra weight. Still she dropped around 40 pounds. She became crazy thin. Like bones sticking out of her thin.
And of course, she started an affair. And other running behaviours.
A few days after BD, she actually told me she had thought she was going crazy. For months, she had cried entire days while the kids were in school and I was at work. Months! And she hid what she was going through. She had no index, no language, to explain what she was feeling and thinking. She was so scared and tormented.
Her epiphany was when she concluded that a crazy person wouldn’t think they were going crazy, so therefore she wasn’t. And everything she felt and was doing was absolutely right. Absolutely! She was so incredibly sure.
And with that, she burnt her old life to the ground. She threw me, the kids (S19, S18, S16, D15), the dogs, the house, the cars, her family heirlooms, gifts from the kids - everything she tossed it aside like we/it were trash. Her grand Thanksgiving supper announcement of her affair and leaving was an utter shock to all eight of us (kids, me, and my parents) sitting around the left over turkey. “D, you get the house, the car, and kids. Unless you don’t want them, then I guess I’ll have to take them.” It was shock and pandemonium.
So many reactions from us seated around the table. My eldest got immediately angry. So did my Dad and son’s GF. My second oldest had an attack and could not breath. He stumbled outside and his GF had to go after him. My youngest son, got furious! My daughter was in shock. My Mom was likewise dumbfounded and starred at the chaos in disbelief. I, from what I was told, went white as a ghost. My blood drained from me and I kind of went into shock.
I did manage to get W to come out to the living room and we talked. Her blaming me for things. A few examples, according to W, of “my” faults that warranted divorce and all the collateral damages: The furnace vent blows cold air when it starts up. My company provided work truck burns too much gas, and she is trying to save the planet. My stated rebuttal that I own and drive a Prius meant nothing. I was an old man. Again, reason meant nothing, she just ignored the stated facts that I was 49 and she was 46 at the time.
Our conversation was bizarre. She sad nothing against me. She actually blamed the kids more than me. (Later, I found out just how true that was.)
Anyhow, she completed her exodus 3 hours later when she walked in to the darkness, with just the clothes on her back, down our 1400 foot driveway to waiting OM. She moved in with him that night.
Time from us completely unaware, living our normal loving family with loving wife/Mom to her gone, was 3 hours. Staggering thing to witness. And thank goodness there were so many witnesses.
What a terrible night in the aftermath of that. I had the presence of mind to ask everyone to write down what they saw and heard. Their account of the events. They all did. Interesting having such a written record. Individual viewpoints all corroborating something that was unthinkable.
A few weeks later, W confided how the pending empty nest was really bothering her. Her solution, and as messed up as this is, her solution and “her” logical reasoned plan was to leave the kids before the kids could leave her. I tried to reason and explain the illogic of that. LOL. Believe me when I tell you this, you cannot talk a MLCer out of their plans. She believed she was correct, with such assuredness.
This woman, my wife, I knew for 31 years. Married for 26. Four kids. She become an alien. The complete opposite of who she was. She destroyed her life. And I’ve never seen her so sure about anything as much has she displayed when dropping the bomb. As she said that night - “I am willing to risk never seeing my kids again for a chance at happiness.”
Such a lost soul.
She had happiness. Love. Joy. Fulfilment. And it was all ripped away from some unearthed terrible childhood traumas that were long ago buried by the very people who should have protected her.
God, please bestow your mercy upon her.
For those that have seen this kind of thing, you know what I speak of. For those that haven’t, I totally get how unbelievable MLC sounds.
A midlife crisis is a horrible soul consuming thing. I’d not wish it upon my worst enemy. It is that bad!
I read a lot of situations here. I see lots of stories of emotional turmoil and such, and I hope and pray every time, that it’s more life transition than crisis.
Been a while since I posted. I think posting and being on the forum tended to make me overthink things and over-analyze my situation, so I gave it a break for an attempt at mental clarity.
To update things - was living in a de facto IHS situation with an MLC wife who was definitely up to no good on some level. She was making very little $ while finishing a second degree that would pave the way for her to earn more. Three kids at home, two stepkids (hers) in college. She would make nebulous references to leaving but never really advanced things.
In mid-March, I busted up the affair she was having. It was counter to DBing and leaving her to her own devices, but I just got tired of it. There had been a slow trickle of information and finding things out, partly from a tranche of iPhone "Notes" that transferred from her phone to our son's when he got a new one (same Apple ID). Anyway, I saw her location one day when she was supposed to be at work and tracked her to a motel, where I confronted the guy as he left and said I was going to fill his wife in on all the details. Honestly, in spite of how my actions would probably go against all advice offered on here, I just needed to know. I don't regret it.
It was all surreal and almost felt like something out of a movie. I kicked her out of the master bedroom for what amounted to about two weeks before relenting somewhat, partly due to talking with a co-worker whose spouse had also had an affair. Got STD tested just to be sure. W elected to stay out of the master bedroom with me on her own for the most part. She filed a motion for child support through the court in April, which she claimed was only to get us access to free mediation and "get the ball rolling." I made my second lawyer visit at this point, where he said her court filing made no sense since we weren't separated.
In mediation (mid-May), we talked about things that might apply but were only theoretical at that point. I didn't like her proposed child visitation schedule and we didn't really get anywhere when discussing the house. She still had not gotten a job when the actual July court date approached, so we went to one more mediation session and then she dropped the petition. There was a point in late May when she had resumed sleeping in the master bedroom with me, which has continued to this day.
The affair guy clearly panicked and called things off that day. He lives an hour away and would be in town here once or twice a month. W definitely had withdrawal and would say things to me like "You thought I'd run right back to you after you broke this up," "I'll never forgive you for this," and "Why did you show up that day?" Those "arguments" slowed down over the months since March but would still come up occasionally, tipping her hand that nothing had resumed (she's not a good enough actress to manufacture that). I'm just adding a touch of context here; I don't trust her at all and I'm not claiming victory that she's now faithful again.
We still largely lived a life resembling IHS, which of course isn't fun. Bedroom stuff occurred at a lesser frequency but still took place. A couple weeks ago, she finally got a full-time job (ironically enough, a few days after withdrawing the court petition). A couple days ago she notified me that she'd scheduled another mediation session. I'm not court-mandated to go to this one, but I will. She seems to be singing a different tune about our house and appears willing to move out to start the real separation process. I still had designs on her emerging from MLC (not sure of whatever timeline I may have envisioned) but it may be time to move on at this point. She appears to be menopausal or perimenopausal (at 44, which seems young) with irregular periods and frequent hot/cold changes. She's probably a poster child for going nuts at this point in her life.
I'm not sure how hard to play the house card - she said a realtor said we could sell the house in a week flat and at a price that would net both of us a decent sum. Supposedly, she has designs on a townhouse rental for herself that would come open mid-September. As of now I'm inclined to say I'm not leaving the house right before school starts for the kids. If we didn't start the separation clock until she formally moves out in September, I could certainly claim rights to not leaving the house before next June, no? A lot to process. Also, would she forfeit any of her say in the house if she moves out and only pays rent on her new place, while I continue to pay the mortgage myself? I'm sure the mediator would help her with this question if it comes up but I was wondering.
Hopefully some familiar folks will chime in as I've always appreciated the words and advice on here.
