Divorcebusting.com Forums Thread Like Summary - Living with WAW 3

Here's a link to the previous thread
https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2938720&page=10

Even as emotionally raw as you are right now...

There is a passion for you to find peace...whatever that looks like for you.

Same with us posters...

Everyone posting to you wants the absolute best for you, and sometimes that leads to differences of opinions, and different ways of addressing things...

What works for one, will not, and should not work for another considering how differing we all are.

Every situation is entirely unique, yet so eerily similar....

We become overly passionate about our advice. And leads to things like what you read this morning.

It's all opinion as nobody here is a professional ...

We offer what we've seen, sometimes it's good, sometimes it's bad....

The beauty in it, is that good or bad, it's all experience in something that the poster isn't adept at....

I respect LH's opinion, even if I don't agree with it. Because he earned his opinion the hard way, the same as everyone here posting to you.

Whatever choices that you make, just be sure that you aren't making an emotional decision, and that you have zero regrets down the road. That you feel that you did everything that you could do to save your marriage.

I want that for you....

You do seem confused by boundaries! Repeat: "Boundaries control me, not her." It still sounds like you're looking at boundaries as a way to control her actions instead of a way to assert mastery over yourself and protect yourself from harm. I manage people and I put a lot of boundaries around how our customers may interact with them. I don't control whether a customer behaves well (like most) or behaves badly (like some). I just control how much access they have to my team. They will treat my team with respect or they will not have access to their services.

Possible boundaries:
"If she lays a hand on me, I will call the police and report it."
"If she cheats on me, I will file for divorce a.s.a.p."
"If she calls me names, I will hang up."

Not Boundaries:
"She won't get away with calling me names, and iff she cheats on me, she's sleeping on the street!"

Hopefully the book R2C recommended will help you make sense of boundaries. (:

This is a direct question about a business matter--so simply tell her when? No need to introduce drama by ignoring her. Telling her what she NEEDS to do would be controlling behavior.

"I'm reviewing them now; I'll respond within 1-2 weeks."

I agree with DNJ, do not sign anything without a lawyer looking at the information. When they are sitting on the fence and hoping that you'll take the reins and do the heavy lifting, they will ask for the moon. They just don't care if you have to be on the street corner with a tin cup just as long as they get everything they ask for. They think that the divorce decree is the answer to "freedom". They think the grass is greener on the other side, but it's not. Happiness comes from within and not from external "stuff".

We are a "divorce busting" forum and we do not advocate divorcing right out the gate. We try to work with the posters and help guide them through the process of separation and the ups and downs you will face along the way. We are here to listen and offer advice and sometimes posters have questions on how to navigate a divorce, i.e., as to what to do and not do. Ultimately, it is your decision as to whether you want to move forward and do the paperwork yourself, but seriously, if she wants the divorce, then she should be the one to do the work.

I would sit back, gather your information and be prepared if and when the time comes and you need to move forward. Start looking around for a good lawyer, one that will not be in a rush to the court house to file papers. That lawyer will need to work for you are the one that will tell him/her what you want to do...do not allow him/her to push you into something you are not ready to do. Gather information and then think about what you want to do.

No matter what happens, we are here to support you throughout your journey and we want you to know that you will be okay. Try to look at the situation as a business deal and make decisions with your brain and not your heart. Keep the focus on you and your family and live your life to the fullest the best you can at the moment.

I'm late to the game DW, but I want to share with you something which was invaluable to me during the early days. Our divorce mediator, who was a marital mediator, advised me to take as much time as I needed ... my timeline not my husband's or anyone else's ... take all the time I needed to get really clear about what I wanted. He stated with the authority of experience that if I figured out what I wanted then the rest would fall into place.

He was not wrong.

Take what makes sense to you and leave the rest.

I appreciate all of the input here. I have spent the better part of the past week thinking of what exactly I want to do right now. There are a lot of variables at play, but I did decide that I want to fight to save my marriage. I know that there are a lot of things I cannot control. My wife may decide next week that she's going to complete the paperwork and file for D. I am comfortable with that. I know some people get D and then get back together, but based on the chaos D will create for my household, I don't believe that is not an option in my situation. So basically it's all or nothing in my mind, and I'm not ready to throw it away just yet. I am in no rush and I do not think potential pros (moving on quicker, better deal in D, etc) are things that I value right now.

One of my biggest concerns with D is that it will be a financial disaster based on things I have mentioned before (We have no option to keep our house, the house/rent/interest costs are so high we will both be living in places comparable to our first apartment when we were 19, we have 5 pets, I will have to pay spousal support for around 5 years and child support for 14, before school childcare when I have D4, etc.) I have checked with the online support calculators and it will be rough making that work in my location. I know I would still be able to get through it one way or another if I had to, but it is still a huge factor.

It may sound like financial concerns are the only reason that I don't want to go through with a D. It is not. My W has been a crazy, unpredictable roller coaster ride the past several months. But I know that she was not and likely will not always be this way. A similar situation happened before and she was able to pull herself back to normalcy eventually. It was a much shorter turnaround time than this time, but her sh!tty friend group, her AP, her crazy behaviors vanished for over a decade before they came back again this year. And I do understand my role in causing those things to creep back in. I am not at fault for her infidelity, that's on her. And she absolutely had a part in us getting to this point. But I also now understand my role in preventing a poor relationship, which is something I have not understood for the entirety of our R. If by some miracle we are able to make things work, I am confident that I've learned enough to avoid going through this again. If not, at least I have some tools to move forward with someone else.

I've spoken about her childhood trauma a little bit, and the therapist she's been seeing the past few weeks has been focusing on that trauma. Sounds like they believe she has trauma from our relationship as well, but that's another conversation. W doesn't talk to me about any specifics, but I truly believe her trauma has at least equal weight with this situation as my failures as a husband. And I believe I owe it to my family to let the therapy portion play out a little longer. As I said, I am not in a rush. When I take a step back and think about her actions, they don't seem to line up with someone who wants to throw everything away right now. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my part, maybe she's conflicted, maybe she's waiting for a better opportunity, I don't know. She could have moved out months ago when we had money saved up and she didn't. I'm pretty sure she could have moved in with AP, especially when I told her to leave. She didn't. Is it to spare herself the shame/guilt of moving on right away and being the one to end everything? I don't know. Many of her behaviors seem typical for all WW's, so maybe that is standard, I don't know. What I do know is that I am willing to wait things out at this time. Maybe that changes in a month, maybe not. I'll just take it a day at a time and see how it plays out.

I will spend time thinking about this question. I truly care about the vows I made when we got married. If my W wants a D, she knows what she has to do. I will obviously not wait forever, but at the beginning I gave myself 1 year. Right now it hasn't even been 6 months. Right now I don't know if my best future is with or without my wife. I've read here that many times the WW does not come back the same person, so maybe that question cannot be answered at this time. But while I work through that decision, I will focus on the things I've learned here, keep reading books (including DR again), re-read my threads as well as others, get a better grasp of boundaries and validation, keep setting personal goals, spend as much time as I can with the kids, and GAL as much as possible. If that is still not enough, I know I'll feel much better knowing that I did what I could.

Again, thank you all for providing your perspectives and advice. Even when it's conflicting, it is very helpful. It's tough leaning on friends/family for these situations because of the potential ramifications. Having opinions from people who have been through similar situations as I'm going through that do not affect my relationships with friends/family is a gift that I truly appreciate.

DW I am like the big brother in DB land and get really angry when when I read about the lack of respect these WS give to people they have been with for sometimes decades. Wanting a D is one thing but making jokes about it really aggravates me. Stay the course and make decisions that are best for you.

I just want to comment on one thing you wrote above. There are no guarantees she snaps out of it and goes back to her "normal" self. These behaviors sometimes are more of who they really are and will be moving forward.


I respect your opinion too Mach. It's all good in the hood I let my emotions get the better of me.

DW17,
So odd how they live in two worlds. My ExW signed us up for family events with our friends well after BD, cooking Sunday dinner w/my parents, and doing yardwork and gardening the week before she moved out.

If you can handle it and want to keep the tradition with your kids than go for it, but in the more likely case you're lying to yourself and really playing along to keep the peace and hope the "normalness" of it wakes her up and fixes things you should steel your resolve that these type of things don't typically make a difference in the DB'ing. Not let something like this draw you in only to disappoint and hurt you. I guess I'm saying make sure you temper your expectations here. I may be with LH about being busy instead. You have to decide for yourself but I definitely look back at things I did to play along and have one last hike with the family as shortsighted now.

Ding, ding, ding!

She is MARRIED! I'm willing to bet you two didn't write a "...until we decide to separate" clause into the vows.

Yes! See above. Don't allow yourself to buy into her major pile of BS.

Same here! And well done. Making memories with your daughter. We had about 10 kids and their parents for pizza and the game. Disappointing result considering the US dominated the first half and had a late lead. Someone called it a draw that felt like a loss. We had fun though, especially the kids...so that's what mattered.

Good. How'd it go?

Ok, Mr Nice Guy. I wouldn't lose too much sleep about something "not feeling right". She's cheating on you and divorcing you...do what's best for you.

Fewer words. You don't need to tell her all that. Actions > words.

You better go through every device and every account (email, banking, social media...etc.) and log all devices and change every password. She's divorcing you and this is a hostile negotiation now. You don't need to tell her it is...but you treat it as such.

As usual, BL42 is on the money with everything.

In my personal life, I tend to care what normal, trustworthy people think of me and my life. Their opinion matters to me. If someone in my life is a cheat and a liar, I spend zero of my headspace thinking about what I should do or say and how they might take it. Personally, I wouldn’t be spending any time with her. I definitely wouldn’t be wearing matchy matchy outfits for Christmas. Like, WTF? #spewemoji

You’re just teaching her it’s okay to treat you like crap. You’ll dress up like her little Christmas Elf twin, but meanwhile some other guy is probably going to be taking those clothes off her when she is at his house cheating on you.

What you’ve done for years (trying to keep her happy and not rocking the boat) HASN’T WORKED.

You know what you should do? Ignore her completely including any comments about matching outfits. Go buy some stylish, modern clothes like new chinos, a Ralph Lauren collared shirt and new dress shoes (not casual) and wear them with a great cologne. If she seems surprised or pissed and asks why you aren’t her little Christmas b*tch, don’t bite - just be super happy!

“Why won’t you wear my little b*tch costume I bought for you, it seems very rude.”

“I’m going out to meet friends later and want to look my best.”

How did IC go?

Change ALL your passwords. ASAP.

Yes. Rational, logic, reason, and definitions do not change just because someone feels or believes differently.


From her perspective, she will use that as justification to be unfaithful. Yet, when one’s feelings change their justification falls apart.

Long standing beliefs are rooted in reality. Life’s feedback providing reinforcement, affirming validity of one’s convictions. Wishful beliefs take much energy to continually maintain, as the world, people, events, karma, etc, constantly chip away at a person’s self believed narrative.

The “right” path is surprisingly easy to walk. And everyone has their own “right” path. There are some universal tenets that are generally accepted as guidelines for right and wrong, like what constitutes infidelity. We all weave those into our lives and journey. And someone going counter to their foundation and principles is not that hard to see. Amazing how hard some folks try to make something they are doing to be “right”.


The impact upon you will be as it needs to be. Seeing clearly, not her BS, clearly seeing her perspective and its non logical facade lets you step aside from it. Not buy into it. Affirming you and your values.

We all need a certain amount of understanding to let go and move forward. That needed amount increases as one heals and moves forward. It’s growth. Each facet of our situation we learn more and more, and grow more and more.

Strengthen your beliefs that serve, crafting those you aspire to, and discarding those that no longer or do not serve. That will not change what has happened or has previously affected your family, however it can/will alter things going forward.

Seeing from her perspective, leads to understanding, empathy, acceptance, and forgiveness. And that is a significant impact.

D

Good job with D18. However why not also encourage her to tell her mom how she feels? D is an adult. Sure still maturing but she needs to express her feelings to her mom. There are consequences to our actions and W is so far escaping many of them. I’m not claiming it will change Ws behavior but it’s a great learning lesson for D to speak up for herself. Might be a good lesson for you as well.

Typical WAS. No follow-thru. If you read through the situations here, most LBSs end up being the one to file for D. Because the WAS is usually lazy, and after they state what they want they just expect it will happen. DW17, have you considered setting a drop-dead date? A date that if she isn't recommitted fully back to the marriage then you will hire a lawyer and go file yourself? Do you know how long you are willing to live in the current situation? Being married to someone that clearly doesn't want to be married to you, isn't willing to put any work into the marriage, and goes around making it abundantly clear how miserable they are?

Also, notice that your WAW is in the "just tell them what they want to hear" mode that a lot of WASs default too. Your D18 asked a difficult question, and your WAW gave her an answer she thought she needed to hear. This is typical. They will say whatever is most convenient at that moment. This is why you cannot believe anything she says, and only half of what she does.

Great GAL. Good activities and personal insight (on spending too much time at home). Recognition is the first step to correction. So correct that moving forward and keep focusing on GAL!