I didn’t send the note and there she goes. I have already as you say clearly communicated what I needed to with words. I’m sad. But encouraged that I’m going to be ok. Now to live life well.
We've all felt discarded, betrayed, and abandoned. It's to be expected under the circumstances. The feeling eases with time. Keep working on yourself as much as you. It pays off. But it takes time. It all takes time.
Not many things more difficult in life than to be left behind as your wife goes on a trip with another man. It's completely understandable you're spinning right now. I remember post-BD / IHS knowing W had to "work early" or "work late" knowing for a fact what she was doing. Don't feel bad about being sad, depressed, not having the energy to power though...etc. You're right where so many of us where ourselves. We know what you're going through.
That said...the faster you can "flip the power", get strong not weak, and change into an "FU mindset" the better. Good times are ahead, trust me. The quicker you can get there the better you'll be feeling. And perhaps she'll start wondering what she's losing.
Good for you for not sending the letter. Good for you for not reaching out to W. Now...what ARE you planning to do? Whatever it is, let it be out of strength. YOU are the prize; SHE is going to regret losing YOU.
Hang in there. You will get through this. And we'll do what we can to help.
Rockon, I and tell you that you are very fortunate to be on this forum. The advice you are getting is tested and time proven.. I wish I had this forum years ago.. My Ex did pretty much all of the things in here recommended, and it worked on me. Now, once i woke up, I am implementing things on here. My advice is nothing compared to what others have stated. Just keep doing what you are doing, and all will be well... She made her decisions, lied, cheated and if let back in, she knows she can do it again.. Thats my harsh feelings but I do believe it. You have been improving yourself, that is critical to your self being, and for your kids. She is the one making her decisions, she is in control of them.. I wish you the best and will continue to follow this thread..
BTW,, I am far behind where you are as I took way to long to move on, gal etc.. But, with this forum and members here I will succeed also..
Every time you spend time on you and having fun - you feel renewed and happier and less depressed!
Yes, it’s important to have a cry and feel your sadness rather than hide from it. But you should only do it for a fixed time. For example:
“I’m going to sleep in, think about and process my marriage problems and divorce in bed for 1 hour from 9am to 10am, then I’m going to get up and do those fun things which make me happy.”
Sadness, anger and helplessness are normal, reasonable and required feelings.
The difference between a normal person dealing with something tough and someone who develops life-controlling depression is exposure time. Put a plan in place BEFORE you start thinking about it, or dealing with wife/lawyers/finance. If you don’t define set limits, it will start to control you.
Another useful tool is the stop sign imagery which I’m sure you can Google. Once 10am comes, every time you catch yourself thinking about her or divorce or lawyers or finance - mentally picture a big red stop sign. It’s a really good mindfulness technique.
To me detachment means letting go of outcomes. I don't control the outcome so I shouldn't place my worth on the result. Doesn't mean stop caring, not trying, not having a plan, or giving up. I am solely in control of myself. If I do my best, I did all I could at the time then it has to be enough. I can learn from the experience and improve the process for future experiences.
How to practice detachment? Figure out the worst thing that could happen to you? (Spiers Doctrine - "The only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function as a soldier is supposed to function.") So the only thing that matters is are you doing the right thing. It easier to make a plan, take action and be brave when you aren't afraid of the outcome, you can't get hurt if you are already dead.
So your w is well. She feels like she is living her life for herself right now. Nobody likes pain and sadness and we are trying to tell you that letting your w go is the quickest way out of it. It is normal to feel discarded like a piece of trash.
So what I’m looking for is more of your fears. What is keeping you from saying “W I love you and want you to be happy so I will let you go find your happiness. “
For me it was what would happen to my kids. I had never lived alone up to that point. Did I have enough money to survive? Would I be sitting in a rocking chair on my porch alone in the end?
Her cheating IS TRULY a boundary. I plan to enforce this by changing the way I interact and relate to her. So I will need to not be in the role of H. My action response will be to contact a lawyer and learn about my rights and actions in a broken down marriage.
Please provide input and even examples from your growth if you like.
With my lady, off the top of my head: 1) I listen more than I speak. 2) I maintain eye contact. 3) I think more before making a decision. 4) I say NO more. 5) I lead. 6) I am a safe place for her express her emotions, without reflecting them back.
The reason you are struggling is the power struggle between the emotional and intelligent parts of your brain.
At the moment, your emotional brain and thoughts are calling the shots, so intelligent brain isn’t getting a say and you’re spiralling out of control.
Don’t let your emotions control your thoughts/decisions. Acknowledge them, process them, but learn to identify that they are not going to give you good outcomes and they need to be replaced with measured, reasoned thoughts and behaviours.
“I can’t do this, it’s just too hard, I miss her so much.”
STOP SIGN IMAGERY
“I’m allowing emotion to control my thoughts.”
“I most probably will get through all of this and be okay.”
“I acknowledge I feel crap. But I still need to make smart decisions.”
“Perhaps because I’m emotional, I’ll redirect. I’m going to go for a run or gym session, have some good food, and then reconsider my problem with strength and the intelligent half of my brain.”
Emotions are fine. But don’t let them influence thoughts, behaviours and outcomes.
For me to be in a marriage relationship, I have a firm boundary that I don’t have a relationship with my W if she commits adultery and is not repentant.
I know it hurts, but if it's true W went on a trip out of the country to visit OM she has already committed adultery in an emotional sense and almost certainly in a physical sense, and you're fooling yourself if you don't think there are very long odds that she's actually repentant. By the far most likely outcome of this trip is she's had a PA and will not be sorry about it. You need to dace reality and prepare yourself mentally for this outcome. And the question becomes if this is a firm boundary for you, how are you going to enforce that boundary? What actions do you plan to take?
Originally Posted by Rockon
What do I say if she reaches out to me and wants to talk?
Well that's really up to you. A few have mentioned the "Contact my L, here's the info" approach. Or you could say you're too busy...or better yet BE too busy. However, if you agree to talk because you most likely will because you're not strong enough yet to blow her off whatever you do don't beg or plead or even give in easily rather just listen and validate and don't commit to anything.
Originally Posted by Rockon
As I write this, I recognize I am still very much processing so much deep hurt. And so I am trying to see more clearly but it’s hard.
I know man, I've been there. It's awful...sorry. You WILL get through it though.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Rockon
I have read that you can be wise to define a timeline for a trial separation of 3 to 6 months and to come up with agreements for the trial separation.
You read wrong. WWs do not follow any agreements so a waste of time.
She's already broken her vows and gone off to see OM. You can not in any way trust her to live up to any "trial separation agreement". It's meaningless and unenforceable. She's going to do whatever she wants to do whether you pinky swear or put it in writing. You simply can't trust her, so don't bother making an agreement.
Originally Posted by LH19
Originally Posted by Rockon
As I write this, I recognize I am still very much processing so much deep hurt. And so I am trying to see more clearly but it’s hard.
It's the desperation that you spoke about earlier. You are trying hold on to something that is already gone and is an awful feeling. You are going to have to find a way through it.
Suffering is wanting reality to be different than it is. Once you let go of what you want it to be and accept what it is, you'll stop suffering.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I’ve been working to take my power back. I’ve got a ways to go on that.
This is the single most important thing you can do. Take your power back. It's understandable you have a ways to go, but keep working on it. The sooner you find your strength and power the faster you'll feel good...and for what it's worth the more attractive you'll be.
Originally Posted by Rockon
Connecting with good friends had a good workout and swim today and a big walk to and from second appointment.
Originally Posted by Rockon
But I just arrived back at my hotel in a great city after taking my son out for dinner and to the skatepark on a beautiful night. The skate sesh was sick and I felt such Love joy and peace along with a couple other homies out skating
LH is asking very pertinent questions which are actually at the crux of your pain.
I think you not only need to ask these questions, but you need to explore them with a counsellor.
For me, my fears were: a) what would happen to my children, how their short and long term futures would be effected b) would I be okay on my own c) fear of the unknown
These are the fears that keep you trapped. Your current trap is that your brain knows logically that the best way forward is to walk away happily from her - but your emotions and uncertainty and fears like a) b) c) above can control your brain and you end up making emotive, not intelligent decisions.
The reason that some days you are fine and other days you crumble - is because of the power struggle between intellectual reasoning and emotional parts of your brain. They are fighting it out, and so you wobble between two extremes.
Getting to the bottom of your fears allows your intellectual brain to slowly retain control in preference to your emotions.
I’m my situation, all three were things I shouldn’t have worried about. a) Kids are MUCH more resilient than we think, and much more resilient than adults. Adults like routine and structure and repetition, and struggle without it. A child psychologist told me “you underestimate your kids ability to understand what has happened, and their ability to adapt, and their unconditional love.” Looking back, she was 100% right. My kids haven’t been stunted by divorce - they’ve thrived. b) I was okay on my own before I got married, why the hell wouldn’t I be okay on my own after? Also, you’re not on your own with your kids, family, and friends, and work colleagues - in all those facets of life you will be the same with people around you. It’s only in the relationship part of your life that you will be on your own - and most likely not forever anyway. c) Everything in life is unknown the first time. Unknown can be good. Uncomfortable can create growth. People who are comfortable and know everything, eventually become very boring and sad people. Would Nelson Mandela have become one of the world’s most incredible human beings had he not had to face adversity?
You are in what many will describe as the toughest time of your life Rockon. Trust me when I say it’s only temporary, and that one day, you may look back on your separation and reconciliation or acrimonious divorce as one of the best things that could have happened in your life.
I certainly do.
Please don’t reach out to her. You will absolutely regret it.
My boundaries and limitations in this relationship: No cheating.
I have to challenge you on this one...is her cheating truly a boundary? If so, how do you plan to enforce it? Because you know she did cheat, right? Saying it's a boundary is only words; what is your action in response?
Originally Posted by Rockon
Loyalty, fidelity, trust and respect are paramount and required by me.
All four of those are very reasonable values to look for in any relationship, and especially a marriage.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I need to be treated as a priority by my W. That my W goes to me for joy and adventure and not just when she wants me to do something for her.
You can't make your W treat you as a priority. This is out of your control. Especially in your current situation.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I need to prioritize my own needs.
Yes, that's the right attitude. This IS something you can control. Now do it.
The only real help you need to make it clear, solid, boundaries and being hard-core about what you want and need. People respond to that. Being an emotional chameleon, "trying" to be detached doesn't work. Set boundaries, set ultimatums. This is hard, but, it helps avoid all the back and forth. Does she want to be married to you or not? Thus far she said she wants a separation or a divorce. Act on that. If you want something else, state it. You can say, "If you want to work on this marriage, fine, if you don't, I have some decisions to make in the next few weeks." Strength and clarity are attractive.
The longer this drags on, the weaker your position becomes. You will compromise, make yourself smaller, meet her needs and then she'll walk all over you. Don't wait for her to act. Time to take control back.
In my experience, unless you are a complete jerk, changing yourself, becoming your "best" self, doing 180's don't really last. Eventually you will revert to who you basically are. I've seen it on these boards before - intense personal change that lasts for 12, 18 or 24 mos and then you slip back. Sorry to say this, but it's inevitable. The divorce gets busted and then, 2 yrs later they are back on the boards and the marriage is toast. Personal change is super hard. If you're wife doesn't like who you are, might as well end it sooner than later. Again, if you're a real jerk and need serious help, get it. If you're just a normal guy, you aren't going to turn into superman. You can't save this marriage alone. Two people need to compromise and work at it. You will hear in the forums that 180's and being solution oriented are really just emergency measures to get their attention. GAL is for your own sanity. The real hard work of repairing a marriage is 50/50 and In the end, she has to want the marriage as much as you do.
^Wise words from LH. I'd re-read this a few times and really ponder it if I were you.
In my experience, unless you are a complete jerk, changing yourself, becoming your "best" self, doing 180's don't really last. Eventually you will revert to who you basically are. I've seen it on these boards before - intense personal change that lasts for 12, 18 or 24 mos and then you slip back. Sorry to say this, but it's inevitable. The divorce gets busted and then, 2 yrs later they are back on the boards and the marriage is toast. Personal change is super hard. If you're wife doesn't like who you are, might as well end it sooner than later. Again, if you're a real jerk and need serious help, get it. If you're just a normal guy, you aren't going to turn into superman. You can't save this marriage alone. Two people need to compromise and work at it. You will hear in the forums that 180's and being solution oriented are really just emergency measures to get their attention. GAL is for your own sanity. The real hard work of repairing a marriage is 50/50 and In the end, she has to want the marriage as much as you do.
IMO...That is because the changes are made with the sole intention of just getting their marriage back.
All of that needs to be done with the intent of doing it ONLY for yourself. Because YOU don't like those things about you.
You cannot be authentic, with someone else's playbook.
Real change takes courage in the face of adversity, and you have to be willing to make the changes based on just purely being your authentic self. No lies, No BS...just who you are at your core.
Change only for her or the marriage ?
Yea, better save your password for here.
While I like your list above, they are all things that only becoming your true self can change.
A lot of those guys up there LH, came here and made a half a$$ attempt at DBing just so that they could relieve their guilt over their crappy behavioral patterns.
"Well, I did the DB thing and it didn't work out, so now I can revert back to being a controlling, insensitive, manipulative asshat, and this doesn't work at all"
DBing , done right, can change a person to their core, and realize the potential within...
Regardless the outcome of the marriage...
We all arrived here with a certain set of tools in our toolbox, and we did the best we could with the tools that we had to work with. DBing is about upgrading our tools, so that we don't make the same mistakes again. While you don't need a $500 drill to build a birdhouse, you certainly can't drill through concrete with a screwdriver. Try them all out, and see what works for you...
You have the time, use it to take inventory, and see if you can build for your future.
Ok this is concrete and I think you men can help me and poke holes where I am not hitting the mark.
Earn and gain respect: 1. Be decisive. Don’t ask permission (except of course respect boundaries consent rights etc). Act get it done. Make a plan and do it well. 2. Stop begging or pleading. Don’t offer or accept cheap efforts at intimacy or being second fiddle. 3. Be confident 4. Have some strong friends and be a strong friend. 5. Don’t show off or be childish. 6. Take responsibility and be accountable. 7. Don’t try to nice a woman into liking you. 8. Have goals. Plot a course, prepare well, navigate effectively and invite a woman into that. 9. Respond don’t react. Be emotionally safe. 10. Stand up for yourself. Show people how to treat you.
This is off the top of my head. Please provide input and even examples from your growth if you like.
Maybe this will help more....and this is what worked for me...
1-Am I able to listen to others without judgement 2-Am I honest 3-Do I show kindness 4-Do I show compassion 5-Am I able to lead without being controlling 6-Am I able to inspire others to reach their goals 7-Am I strong while having the ability to be vulnerable 8-Am I able to encourage without manipulating 9-Do I show empathy without being condescending 10-Am I ready to give all of that above, without the expectation of receiving it in return
Bonus track...
11-IF my spouse were to want to work on this marriage today, AM I READY , so that I am NOT right back here in 6 months...
IF you are able to show those things consistently, every day, it becomes a part of who you are, and until you know that, how can you be anything for anyone else ?
Ok this is concrete and I think you men can help me and poke holes where I am not hitting the mark.
Earn and gain respect: 1. Be decisive. Don’t ask permission (except of course respect boundaries consent rights etc). Act get it done. Make a plan and do it well. 2. Stop begging or pleading. Don’t offer or accept cheap efforts at intimacy or being second fiddle. 3. Be confident 4. Have some strong friends and be a strong friend. 5. Don’t show off or be childish. 6. Take responsibility and be accountable. 7. Don’t try to nice a woman into liking you. 8. Have goals. Plot a course, prepare well, navigate effectively and invite a woman into that. 9. Respond don’t react. Be emotionally safe. 10. Stand up for yourself. Show people how to treat you.
This is off the top of my head. Please provide input and even examples from your growth if you like.
You earned my respect by answering a direct question to you. You earned my respect by putting effort into thinking about the question. You earned my respect by listing out 10 items.
So your list is your foundation. One layer of the onion. As you move through this, you can improve your behavior and interactions to align with this.
Our daughter invited both W and I to her birthday party along with a lot of D’s friends. D also invited a married couple who are long time close friends of our family. W told me she was unhappy with those friends being there and that she wished she could leave out the back door instead of facing them.
If you've read a lot of stories here you'll find it's fairly common for WAS/WSs to all of a sudden cut out people in their lives who disapprove of their actions and gravitate to those who accept their affair(s)/divorce.
Originally Posted by Rockon
I validated and didn’t try to solve it for her but I believe that W feels shame and judgment over her wayward actions.
Could be, but like LH said...
Originally Posted by Rockon
Anyway she did end up talking to those friends and left the party early.
My ExW left our then 5yo son's birthday party earlier to go talk to OM1. Sad.
Originally Posted by Rockon
This morning D came and gave me a huge hug. She loved her party and had a blast as did I!
Good stuff, Rockon. It's all about you and the kids from now on. Keep being the best dad you can be.
From my observations, a significantly large percentage of the population [censored] at emotional validation, and men are worse than women.
It is much easier to practice with your kids.
You look sad. Is that how you feel? It is OK to be angry. It is not OK to hit other kids. I bet that made you angry. I would be angry if that happened to me.
Originally Posted by Rockon
...W told me she was unhappy....and that she wished she could leave out the back door instead of facing them....
"I can see why you would be unhappy" or "I can understand why you would want to leave" or "I would also want to leave if I were in your shoes" are the first things that come to my mind....NOT THAT YOU SHOULD SAY THIS TO HER.
One of my mantras, "I am responsible for my relationship with my children. Their mother is responsible for her relationship with her children".
I would say something like this: "You are right, it might be a good idea for you to leave. I will take care of everything here." She can stay or leave and you are fine with either choice she makes.
