I told her that if she is interested in R, she will also have to work on herself too.
The three biggest things she's dealing with right now are fear and uncertainty about the future, guilt for what she's doing to you and your son, and anger and resentment over your role in pushing her to this point.
Everything you do right now is going to make her either more resentful, or less resentful.
If you increase her guilt, by blaming, shaming, or making her responsible for your emotional state, she's going to resent you more.
If you give her space, it’s going to make her less resentful.
If you live your own life, and are happy and joyful for your own sake, it’s going to make her less resentful.
If you are respectful in your communications with her, but not intimate, it’s going to make her less resentful.
*Eventually* she will burn through that big pile of resentment.
*Eventually* she will process her anger at you and it will dissipate.
UNTIL she goes through both of those processes, she will not see you as anything other than she believes you to be based on her prior training.
WHILE she is processing her anger and resentment, YOU work on your changes. You do it slowly and methodically *for you*.
If you're a 2 today, you don't focus on being a 10, you focus on being a 3. Then you focus on being a 4. You be kind to yourself.
While her anger and resentment are burning down, your changes are building up.
When eventually she's had enough time and space that she can SEE YOU again, she'll be surprised by what she sees, and she'll question for the first time the assumptions she has held about you.
THAT is the beginning of your opportunity to turn things around, but you CANNOT control how long it will take her to process her anger and resentment, and you CANNOT accelerate it.
Buckle your seatbelt, it’s a marathon and you have to be patient and surrender to the fact that this relationship is NOT something you can control right now.
That's an uncomfortable feeling, but the sooner you own that fact, the better you'll do.
Originally Posted by PeterB
She went off the rails - "what have I done?", "it's all you", "you have treated me poorly", "i have done nothing wrong", "you are not owning up to your problems" etc.
This is a marathon, not a sprint. You have to play the long game.
Even if you do everything 100% perfectly starting today, this is still a months/years-long turnaround.
When you live with someone, there is a huge motivation to keep the peace. Everyone wants peace in their lives. If you blew up over every little thing that happened between you, you would both be miserable.
As such, you push things down and gloss over them as you live together, and the consequence of that is that resentment builds.
If resentment builds too much over time, eventually it becomes "too much" and people start contemplating an exit from the relationship. During this period, the relationship is really "on trial" but the other party is usually totally unaware of it.
Once the trial is over and the person has more or less resolved to leave, you're on the tail end of a year’s long process. It goes "things are overall good, but this stuff is annoying" -> "These things are really annoying but not bad enough that I want to leave" -> "These things are really annoying and I don't know if I can stay" -> "These things are really annoying and now I have to get out"
Unfortunately, in many cases the "annoying things" were never even articulated, or if they were, not with enough gravity. Once the "I need to leave" point is reached, whatever those things are get magnified and new ones get invented to help convince the departing partner that they are making the right choice, fort an act in self-reinforcement which sometimes requires lots of fabrication.
Over time, you have *trained each other* what to expect from the other. She knows how you will react to any given situation, what you will say, how you will act, and she has decided that's not compatible with what she wants.
If you decide you don't want that either, and decide to make a change for yourself, initially she'll think you're just doing it as a gambit to get her back and as soon as she lets her guard down, you'll revert to who you "really are" in terms of who you've trained her that you are.
In order to turn this around she needs to *fully believe* that you've changed, and that you're not doing it just to get her back.
How do you convince her of that?
(1) Repetition, lots and lots of repetition in terms of reacting differently, acting differently, than you have historically.
(2) Acting differently when no one is looking
(3) Finding a life for your new self that doesn't require her. That's the only way you make it credible that your changes are for you. She won't even see them until she believes that you don't need her.
Sounds like she is trying to force you to file and look like the bad guy. The way to combat is to give her more space than she could ever want. When she’s home you are out GAL. Keep holding on your boundaries that she will not disrespect you in anyway. It’s going to be a long tough road either way my friend. I’m sorry.
It is all about HER feelings. She has to feel remorse and feel like she made a terrible mistake and that she has lost you. That is when the begging begins. Until then, you have not busted this divorce.
Originally Posted by PeterB
then she went off like a pressure cooker
Good. she is still emotionally invested in you.
Listening is good. If responses are needed then:
Originally Posted by PeterB
"you are fake"
"I am sorry you feel that way"
Originally Posted by PeterB
"you are dismissive"
"I understand you feel that way"
Originally Posted by PeterB
"you have not taken responsibility"
"I can see why you would think that"
Those are just simple examples that lets the other person know that they have been heard. You are not agreeing, but shows you are listening.
Originally Posted by PeterB
If she can keep her anger down
Be the rock and a safe place for her to vent her anger.
Originally Posted by PeterB
and nastiness down
Know the difference from disrespect and do not let treat you mad. Use your words and actions to set and enforce your personal boundaries. Her parents didn't teach her this. You can.
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One thing she keeps telling me is - 'I do not trust you at all'. Little does she know that the feeling is mutual.
A place to truth dart "reverse babble" her "I understand the lack of trust". One of Coaches tactics that helped get his wife back. I believe this may be used sparingly. The goal is to reduce her resentment. not fuel it.
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"you are just an option for me" in front of my son.
There are so many ways to respond to this. One of my mantras "The one who reacts emotionally first looses". I would flips this and use humor with a "Don't be so sure". Definitely with a twinkle in my eye.You are a man with options and you are vetting her.
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I had told her several times not to bring up this topic in front of my son but she repeatedly does it - basically no regard at all for what I said. I enforced my boundary and left the space.
Telling her how to behave is controlling behavior. Do more work in this area.
I don’t know why you persist with this woman.[/quote]
Originally Posted by PeterB
I don't know either. I think I have to take on a counselor.
Peter wha you are doing is normal. You married your W for a reason. You started a family for a reason. It is normal not to want to lose what you had. I am guessing at one point your W was a good partner? My guess is you are hoping that someday she could be that partner again? This can happen again but unfortunately it takes way longer than people want and can handle. Right now your W is not happy and is 100% convinced that you are standing in the way of her happiness. She has to figure it out for herself whether that is true or not. The best way to help that along is to give her as much time and space as you possibly can. You can never give too much space in these situations.
Originally Posted by PeterB
I certainly do. I am mentally preparing to live without her in my life but I don't know if I will find someone else. I will be really scared to commit after what I went through.
This will change down the road. Lot's of really good faithful women out there. The key is to become great on your own first.
Originally Posted by PeterB
You did awesome. Right now she is an angry, off the rails woman and otoh I am feeling great about myself. I have not got into a fight or showed any anger/annoyance at her in the last 4 months so my efforts at personal improvement are fruitful. I sometimes feel that piecing with her (if it comes to that) would be a huge mistake.
Maybe and maybe not. It depends on her attitude and her motivation for piecing.
Originally Posted by PeterB
I already told her that because of the way the previous discussion went I will be unable to discuss our R with her anymore. It did not go down well but I ignored.
No more talking and more GAL. Peter I like you but I get the sense you can come off as controlling and condescending at times.
Originally Posted by PeterB
I honestly think you’re worth so much more than either you or her realise.
Agreed in unfortunately in these situations she is probably going to have to learn that the hard way.
For example, I am driving, and she asks me to take a turn, and it turns out it's incorrect, so I tell her that was the wrong turn. She goes ballistic and accuses me of calling her a liar, "You know you are being extremely disrespectful." She regularly threatens me that she will note down whenever "I make her mad" and then revisit it later, which will undoubtedly lead to divorce. She still refuses to see a different IC.
You know, there’s millions of incredible women out there who can say “I was wrong” rather than gaslighting and emotionally abusing their husband.
You seem to reiterate with pride how you force yourself to ignore her behaviour.
You might think that’s attractive, but to her, it’s not. It just makes her despise you more.
If she says “I will note it down if you make me mad”, perhaps you could suggest that will help her when she finally decides to talk about her anger issues with a therapist rather than blaming you.
Or perhaps respond with “That will mean we have log of all the times you gave me incorrect driving directions but you were unable to admit your mistake.”
There’s a very fine line between an unaffected, calm man - and being a doormat.
