Been perusing this forum for about a week after checking out DR from my local library and then ordering my own copy. I have greatly benefited from the advice and stories on here. If I may delve into my own situation...
Background: married almost 17 years; together for two prior to getting hitched. Wife and I have three sons (14, 8, 5) along with W's daughter (21) and son (18) from her previous marriage, whom I raised with her as my stepchildren.
We've had ups and downs in our marriage but never anything I imagined would have us looking at divorce. The first chink in the armor (for me, in my head) came in November, when W asked me to fix something with her computer. Not being especially tech savvy myself, I simply tried a restart. When the screen came to life, W immediately rushed across the kitchen in a panic and grabbed the computer away from me, hustling off to the bedroom. It all happened too fast for me to realize what was going on or make out what was on the screen. Clearly something was awry. I finally got out of her that it was a Facebook Messenger screen where she had simply been talking to a male friend. In hindsight, this was clearly an EA, the duration of which I honestly don't know.
We fought about that for a few days; if I recall, she later came up to me the night after it happened and tearfully said she hadn't meant to hurt me. By and large, I let it go, as nothing seemed off at the time. At some point thereafter (unfortunately the precise timeline eludes me) she became sneaky and like a bulldog with her phone. I also noticed way later that she had stopped tagging me in Facebook family photos (something she had done religiously) the first week in December.
I noticed some distance forming between us in February and she barely acknowledged my birthday. During this time, she was taking a few online classes to attain another degree, and she would be holed up in the basement area of our home for hours at a time after the kids were put to bed. I began going to bed before her, something that was previously rare. We also stopped watching tv shows together at night. In other words, she had ample opportunity to get fully neck deep in this EA.
Sometime in March I started getting onto her about suspicious dips into the bathroom that took way longer than they should, accusing her of texting "the guy." One thing about W is that she is not a good liar. I mean, obviously she's able to be duplicitous enough to have this EA going under me, but her body language and facial expression will reveal subterfuge. I knew then that whatever was going on appeared to still be a thing. Unlike SteveLW, whose threads have been invaluable to me (especially with all the posters who chimed in), I don't know specifics - is it one guy all this time? One EA that petered out and another that sprang up? Nudes? Sexting? In my mind, it's been one man consistently and I should probably assume the worst about the content.
Late March or April, W started seeing a counselor under the guise of working on lifelong confidence issues. Has this been a thing with her? Sure. But it also became clear that she was looking for affirmation that I had been a poor husband, to get some air under her wings to perhaps leave the marriage. I had been asking her to let me attend a session to "work on the marriage" as this counselor presumably did both IC and MC. Finally, on Good Friday in April, W admitted to me after a session that she "wasn't the same person" and still loved and cared about me but didn't quite feel the same.
I predictably tried to pull out all the stops (basically doing everything wrong from a DB standpoint). I hounded her about the EA, unfortunately not getting anything. A few female co-workers openly advocated for me to grab W's phone out of her hands when she had it unlocked, but I viewed that as a bridge too far. W would constantly tell me to cool my jets about D talk and that she was "conflicted." I started my own IC in April and that has definitely helped, though I'd say DR and what I've read on this forum have helped more.
Here are a few current nuggets before I post this:
* W has been very attuned to her appearance for a few months, running daily, fussing about gray hair on top of her head and coloring it frequently, getting her nails done (something she never cared about before) and finally - having breast augmentation scheduled for December. She's spun this as a positive for me, but I'm of course leery of a D taking place at some point after this. I think the youthful appearance wannabe thing goes with a MLC, but is this always automatically linked to being on the prowl for other men and/or monkeybranching?
* D talk is not on the front burner but W has been searching for a better-paying job (I know back from snooping that she's told friends she wants to be more financially secure before she tries anything)
* We're starting MC next week, but we both know it might not necessarily be as for a band-aid. My well-meaning therapist suggested I push for it as a way of gaining "clarity" before I was aware of DR and these boards. W finally acquiesced to attending. To be honest, one of my main questions is how to play this session when it rolls around next week
* W has definitely expressed cold feet to friends and to me about forging ahead with D, but you know, "Trust nothing they say and 50 percent of what they do." I know she was recently enamored by the plan of two divorcing college friends of hers - they will rent an apartment and rotate who's at the house with the children.
Any feedback is immensely appreciated! Will post more details as they come to me.
What if he core beliefs are that he won’t share his W with another man?
I wouldn't share my W with another man and don't think Doug54 or others should either. That said, there's a big scale between a brief EA with a few inappropriate texts and 5 years of multiple long running affairs. While both are inappropriate, I'd agree with you the latter is a deal-breaker and I'm guessing you'd agree with me that the former can be worked through. Now, where at what point on that scale crosses a line which passes the point of no return? That's up to Doug54.
For me, the only choices I had were to move on from the MR or to remain in a relationship with him and his AP.
Starting to feel like this for me, though the AP is over the phone - texting and whatnot. No signs of slowing or stopping from what I can tell.
You have to wrap you mind around a realistic timeline. It's very unlikely to change day-by-day. Think long term. "This is a marathon not a sprint". Right now you may be thinking each day seems like a month but in a year or two you'll look back and see how quickly time went by.
Originally Posted by Doug54
That train is leaving the station on my end (W has not only a consultation for breast augmentation set, but an appointment date in a few months as well). I'm pretty sure she has gotten a Care Credit account in her name only, but at the moment we still have a joint checking account.
Did you consult a L yet? Get the information you need to reassure and protect yourself on the financial front.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Is this another term for in-home separation? Or where a common apartment (for example) is rented, and one parent is in the home while the other resides in the apartment, taking turns? W is very interested in this idea after hearing about it from some newly separated friends. I have mixed feelings about it and believe at least one poster on here recommended against it. On the other hand, it wouldn't completely involve me vacating my own home. It's not a long-term solution but perhaps equitable for a time.
DO NOT, under any circumstances, agree to a "Nesting" situation where you're switching weeks on and off between the home and a rented apartment. Almost every vet on the board will agree on that. Listen to the advice and read others sitches who agreed to nesting. How is your detachment going to be coming back to sleep in the house she brings another guy into? You shouldn't move out at all - if she wants to leave, she can, but it's your house.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Unfortunately, I more or less went off the deep end by launching into W about her affair. I believe it came after the counselor was asking about the "best interests" of the children as far as whom might leave the house to begin a separation. The younger two kids gravitate more to W than me. So my ire was about being in this situation at all...in other words, why should I be tasked with leaving?
So Traveler nailed it, but this is a big no-no. #1 rule of BD'ing is no R talks and no fights/outbursts. It's totally understandable you'd be furious about the EA, but you need to get stronger emotionally and not let it show. Be cool, calm and collected. Project strength. Don't let anything phase you (at least visibly, fake it till you make it if you have to). Be mysterious and coy and have a wry smile. Make her wonder what you're thinking and why you're not begging her.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I thought I was inching towards the door of separation, just like W. I'm still uncertain and conflicted.
Your emotions are going to go back and forth. Don't make any rash decisions. Take time to let the emotions settle and think logitically.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I don't think things will get better without W getting a taste of separated life.
It's likely she's going to feel great and enjoy the freedom for awhile. Usually they're loving life...at first.
Originally Posted by Doug54
The two biggest factors for me right now are maintaining the two-parent stability in the house for the kids and of course, the comfort and familiarity of my own home that I bought and have worked on.
You have to accept you have no control over this. If she moves out, you can't stop her. But don't be the one to move out.
Originally Posted by Doug54
And yes, I am weak and still accepting the sexual crumbs that fall my way on a pretty consistent basis.
Time to get strong. Do you want to be having sex with your W who is involved with another man?
Doug54 - Hang in there. It's going to be a rollercoaster ride. Work on getting stronger emotionally. You will be fine, either way. You can do this.
Sorry you're in this situation, but man did you come to the right place.
Unfortunately your story sounds so familiar because it happened to me and countless others here. So much of what you wrote brings corresponding memories in my sitch.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Background: married almost 17 years; together for two prior to getting hitched. Wife and I have three sons (14, 8, 5) along with W's daughter (21) and son (18) from her previous marriage, whom I raised with her as my stepchildren.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Speaking of that, you say this is her second marriage, but you do not say how her first marriage ended. Can you share why her first marriage ended?
I'm also interested in the answer to SteveLW's question. You've been together 19 years but your stepchildren from her previous marriage are 18 and 21? So you got together when she had a 2yo and was pregnant (or just had a baby)?
Originally Posted by Doug54
We've had ups and downs in our marriage but never anything I imagined would have us looking at divorce.
You would not believe how many people have said that here.
Originally Posted by Doug54
W immediately rushed across the kitchen in a panic and grabbed the computer away from me, hustling off to the bedroom.
Originally Posted by Doug54
At some point thereafter (unfortunately the precise timeline eludes me) she became sneaky and like a bulldog with her phone.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
if she is hiding her phone from you, if she is in the bathroom for long periods of time, etc, you can be assured that an EA is going on
The #1 indication of an affair these days is a spouse's protectiveness of their phone/electronic devices. Often times it's a dramatic shift from both spouses using each others interchangeably without any regard to one spouse setting a password and guarding their phone like a hawk.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I also noticed way later that she had stopped tagging me in Facebook family photos (something she had done religiously) the first week in December.
You may want to consider unfollowing her. Not sure you should block her at this point, because that might cause some blow back, but don't let social media impact your emotional state. I distinctly remember the night my now ExW changed her profile pic from our family to one of her and her from on a girls trip before we met. She was at work late and I had put the kids to bed by myself...again. It rocked me and set me back, even though it was silly compared to what was going on overall.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I noticed some distance forming between us in February and she barely acknowledged my birthday.
The barely acknowledged birthday happened to me as well.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Sometime in March I started getting onto her about suspicious dips into the bathroom that took way longer than they should, accusing her of texting "the guy."
Super long bathroom trips happened in my sitch as well. Also going out to the car in the garage to "talk with her girlfriends". When your spidey sense goes off, trust it.
Originally Posted by Doug54
In my mind, it's been one man consistently and I should probably assume the worst about the content.
Sorry to say this, but the content/extent of the affair is almost certainly worse than what you've discovered.
Originally Posted by Doug54
But it also became clear that she was looking for affirmation that I had been a poor husband, to get some air under her wings to perhaps leave the marriage.
The WAS/WS will seek out validation for their emotions and disregard anyone who questions their actions. My ExW stopped talking to any friend who questioned her leaving our marriage and breaking up our family, and started being besties with anyone who she had previously regarded as low character who validated and encouraged it.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I had been asking her to let me attend a session to "work on the marriage" as this counselor presumably did both IC and MC.
Drop MC. There's no way MC will help if your W wants to leave. Both of you have to be committed to working things out, and she's not at the moment.
Originally Posted by Doug54
W admitted to me after a session that she "wasn't the same person" and still loved and cared about me but didn't quite feel the same.
"I love you but I'm not in love with you." Textbook.
Originally Posted by Doug54
A few female co-workers openly advocated for me to grab W's phone out of her hands when she had it unlocked, but I viewed that as a bridge too far.
Don't grab it out of her hands. You already know she's straying.
Also...why are you talking to your coworkers about this??? Keep it private. Maybe one or two close confidants.
Originally Posted by Doug54
* W has been very attuned to her appearance for a few months, running daily, fussing about gray hair on top of her head and coloring it frequently, getting her nails done (something she never cared about before)
Textbook WAS/WS actions. How are you making yourself attractive? Time to start running and hitting the gym yourself.
Originally Posted by Doug54
having breast augmentation scheduled for December. She's spun this as a positive for me, but I'm of course leery of a D taking place at some point after this.
DO NOT FUND HER BREAT AUGMENTATION! She IS NOT doing it for you. Talk to a L.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I think the youthful appearance wannabe thing goes with a MLC, but is this always automatically linked to being on the prowl for other men and/or monkeybranching?
She could be doing it for her EA partner. Or for other men. She's not doing it for you. Regardless of the reason, it shouldn't change your actions. Focus on you.
Originally Posted by Doug54
We're starting MC next week
Originally Posted by Doug54
I'd cancel MC. "I've decided MC would be a waste of time at this point. Instead, I am just going to continue with IC to work on myself." MC in these situations rarely, if ever, work.
Cancel MC. Unless you are both fully committed to working on the marriage - and don't fool yourself, currently your W is not, then it's pointless.
"I've decided against MC and plan to focus on IC instead."
Originally Posted by Doug54
W finally acquiesced to attending.
Originally Posted by Traveler
MC tends to be a waste of money unless both try, and you say she "finally acquiesced.
"finally acquiesced". That's exactly how I'd describe my then-W's stance on MC. I asked her for months to try it and when she finally agreed it was all of 3 sessions before she said she wanted a D. MC could be your W's way of delivering the message. Unless she really wants to work on the relationship and fix the marriage, don't bother - your time is better spent in the gym.
Originally Posted by Doug54
I know she was recently enamored by the plan of two divorcing college friends of hers - they will rent an apartment and rotate who's at the house with the children.
Do not, under any circumstances, rotate between the marital house / apartment. Hope you bust this divorce, but if it does end in separation do separate places - and you stay in the house. She's having the affair. She can move out.
Originally Posted by Doug54
Sex life is good. Never really had a dropoff there, though I was a little dispirited to read Sandi's comments in SteveLW's thread from 2018 about a woman using her H as fantasy vessel for living out sexual fantasies of her EA partner. Who knows if that happened with me. Probably so. Definitely had some rare occasions of morning sex during this time frame.
A friend of mine's W is having an EA yet their sex has ramped up. He thinks this is a positive sign, but I'm concerned for him...
Originally Posted by LH19
It’s a horrible feeling when you feel your family slipping away and there is nothing you can do about it.
Agreed. Deeply sorry you're here Doug54. It really is an awful feeling I wouldn't wish on anyone.
Originally Posted by LH19
Strength is the only way to go moving forward.
Doug54. LH is dead on here. Really spend some time thinking about this comment. Acting out of fear and acting weak is not going to help your situation. What you really need to do is get into a mindset of strength. YOU and the prize. She is crazy to leave you. You will be fine no matter what. It's very difficult to think that way when your family / way of life is threatened, but it's also the best mindset to have both for your mental health and for your chance to save things. You need to flip things on their head and reclaim the power. Act as if. You actually sound a bit stronger and more level headed than a lot of newbies, but work on your strength. It's time to start going about becoming a man she'd be crazy to leave and making your life incredible regardless of whether she's in it. In fact, if she wants to be in it SHE is going to have to prove to YOU that she's worth it.
Originally Posted by SteveLW
Whether it is the same guy, or whether that fizzled and this is someone new is really not important. We LBSs like to fixate on the AP, but this is less about THE AP, and more about AN AP. In other words, if the AP ended things with her tomorrow, she'd just go out looking for a new one. It is part and parcel of wayward wives.
Agreed. Things ended between my ExW and OM1 - which I hoped and prayed they would after BD - and she went right out and got OM2 before she moved out and filed for D. Easier said than done, but don't fixate on the AP.
Originally Posted by Traveler
Originally Posted by Doug54
Is the rule of thumb generally that the person seeking the divorce should exit the home to start the separation process?
Well, even if you choose to give up instead, it's essential to stay in the family home until a lawyer advises you that leaving won't affect 50/50 custody or your finances. The court tends to look at the "status quo" (last few months' possession). Tread carefully.
DO NOT move out. At the very least consult an L first, to Traveler's point. But also consider you have S5, S8, and S14 who may view this as their home. Not sure your financial ability to keep the house, but at their ages this house might be viewed as "home" and the new place that either you/W get might be "daddy's/mommy's place". Position yourself as home base.
Doug, being more emotionally present doesn't mean pressure and pursuit. This is a common mistake LBSs make. "I was emotionally absent during our MR, so in limbo I need to become super-spouse! I need to pursue and pressure. Etc."
As V19 said, you don't need to rescue her to be more emotionally present. And you should NOT use emotional presence as an excuse to break other DBing principles. You let her be the one to initiate contact/interaction. When she does you listen and validate. Be fully emotionally present through the interaction, but then be the one that is busy and needs to end the interaction.
- Let her initiate interactions - Be emotionally present, leaning on sandi's rules, and listen and validate during the interaction - Be the one that ends the interaction "I need to be somewhere....."
