Divorcebusting.com Forums Thread Like Summary - Where to start with WAS

Hello all, new here. I'll try to use acronyms where possible, but still learning some of the lingo.

I just finished Michele's Book, `The Divorce Remedy`, per the recommendation of my pastor. I'm still at a loss as to how to apply the principles of the book to my situation.

A little background, my spouse walked away from our marriage after confessing that she was unhappy, while being engaged in an emotional affair with another man.

Michele's book was enlightening and I totally understand how I drove her further away after she separated and my actions did not help. We did 4 months of counseling but she refused to cut off her relationship with the AP, and our counselor was not helpful. After reading Michele's book, I can see why it didn't work and why I was frustrated with the counseling we received.

From the get-go, I'm fairly certain my spouse had already made up her mind that she wanted to get out of the marriage, so her commitment to working through our problems was nonexistent. I think she just went to try to feel better about herself and absolve her of her guilt. I truly wanted to work on things. But instead of being solution oriented, the counseling we received was just trying to get at the root of our relationship problems. But our marriage was already on the brink and needed immediate, actionable steps to take to turn it around.

After I found out she was still seeing the AP 4 months into counseling, she said she wanted to divorce and sent me papers to sign. I didn't sign them. I don't know why she hasn't filed and had me served (I have theories), but we are a year out from that and have no contact. I have tried several times to reach out to her but she is not interested in reconciling.

She is a very hard hearted person, treats change like a 4-letter word, and is stubborn. I don't see her changing in the least. I know change starts with me, but honestly, most of the marriage books, including Michele's, that I have read, my behavior has been in line with most of the general principles that make a good, happy marriage. But I think there are some people you just can't please and my wife is one of them. I sacrificed and compromised a lot for her in the marriage, but she could never reciprocate and was unwilling to fulfill my needs (paraphrasing what my counselor said).

I think it's impossible for a marriage to survive when one of the spouses is just entirely uncommitted to making the marriage and their spouse their priority. It kills friendships, trust, communication, and intimacy. This is all I was ever trying to build with my spouse, but she stonewalled me the entire marriage and things like her parents, her friends, and her AP were way more important than me or the marriage. She tried to compartmentalize me to fit into her life and I, predictably, resented her for it and reacted to her in unhealthy ways. I totally admit that. But I fought every day to love her as best I could and be patient. In the end, it wasn't enough and I wasn't enough for her. She never wanted to take responsibility for the ways she treated me. I believe now that she never really loved me (in the truest sense of the word). Am I off base in my thinking that you just can't please some people and that some marriages will never work unless both people truly resolve to be faithful to their wedding vows?

So here I am, still holding on to hope that she will return to the marriage but with each passing day, my hopes are dashed. I have no expectation that she will ever return of her own accord. She has rewritten history and is moving on with her life, erasing me from her memory.

I'm at a loss with how to approach her. I still want to save our marriage because I made a commitment on our wedding day for better or for worse, but I also can't live my life waiting for her. I haven't dated other people because we are still married and my religious conviction is that until she divorces me, I am still obligated to be faithful to the marriage. I also don't want to give her any ammunition where she could put any blame on me for the divorce before God (Biblically speaking, she has no scriptural ground for divorce)

Should I just tell her to go ahead and file? How would you approach the situation if you wanted to try one last time to save the marriage?

Quick response.
Yes. I had to get mine second hand as it is not printed anymore (at least where I live)

Adding to what wayfarer wrote.
“ Just because something's not your fault doesn't mean it's not your responsibility. Our ability to act and change is proportional to the amount of responsibility we take on for ourselves.

Fault is past tense. Responsibility is present tense. Fault results from choices that have already been made. Responsibility results from the choices you’re currently making every second of every day. ”

The reason I recommend Love must be though was to help your orientation of where you are in the process. So now after reading it and given it doesn’t matter who’s at fault, what do you think you need to do to take responsibility for yourself in your CURRENT situation?

Answering the questions in wayfarers last paragraph is a good start.

Big ups for reading the book and starting to do the work needed.

Yeah it's kinda feeling like you're cherry picking info here. Women lose respect for their husbands over resentment. If you weren't cheated on out of the gate, the likelihood that you were "walked all over" the whole relationship (which seems to be a total of 3 years) is slim to none. On top of that, you guys were together such a short period of time the amount of resentment that needs to build up to create the kind of complete disregard and disrespect needed doesn't fit. Your WAW is much younger than almost every WAW here. You lived together for next to no time. You have no kids. No shared assets. And currently the way you're framing things you're making it seem like you sacrificed a ton for an emotionally immature, child bride who treated you like crap, unfortunately I'm really struggling to believe that's what really happen in your marriage. And I don't know that I'm the only one.

Most LBS go through phases. First phase is usually everything is my fault. Next is everything is their fault. Followed by even if some of it was my fault what they did was way worse so it's still their fault. Then it eventually, after a lot of time and work they reach, we both did some really detrimental things to our marriage, and even though this isn't what I wanted OR how I wanted it it's probably for the best.

Being here for a few years now I see a lot of LBHs get stuck at everything is the WW/WAWs fault, or some of it was my fault but what WW/WAW did was worse so this is still all their fault. It seems, like you either skipped over it's my fault and went straight to it's her fault or are getting stuck some where in one of these phases. k.

I'm also getting very tripped up with the status of your MR right now. It's such an anomalous MR here, I don't even know where to direct you. But not in the way you think. We get a lot of LBHs who think they've done no wrong. We get a lot of WAWs who are practically allergic to change. We even get MRs where the spouse have been separated for quite some time. Even ones that have spouses living in different countries while the MR is falling apart. What we don't get a lot of is a person who is trying to save the MR when it's been more than year since the WAS has moved out, the WAS isn't speaking to the LBS willingly, and the spouses have absolutely no reason to speak to each other. Almost every person we get has daily/weekly/monthly contact with their WAS depending on their situations. They have something that keeps them tied together other than the legally binding paperwork. Kids, money, businesses, property. Something. But you guys don't, and because of that I'm really struggling with what it is you plan on saving here, and why you think you have a chance of saving it. Maybe you can do some more clarifying for me.

On one hand you say she's your best friend, on the other you say she walks all over you. While two things can be true these two things can't be. Some one who is your best friend doesn't walk all over you. Why would you want to be married to a person who walks all over you? Why would you want to be best friends with someone who doesn't have your best interests in mind?

You cited religious reason for wanting to make things work, but I didn't see a thing about you loving her. You do however say you don't think she ever really loved you. Other than religious obligation why are you hanging on like this?

As far as I can tell she has zero interest in seeing you, speaking to you, and you have no means for which to communicate at regular intervals over neutral topics with each other, what we like to call business, because there is none. She's moved out, moved on, and all but filed for divorce. Correct? Do you guys still go to the same church or something? Do you work together? Have the same favorite lunch spot? How and when do you see each other? What reasons would you have to speak with one another outside of divorce proceedings at this point?

And just to be clear I'm not saying you don't have a snowball's chance in h3ll here. There's always a chance. Humans are weird unpredictable creatures who love the comfort of the familiar. There is always a chance. I've no agenda one way or the other. I am however, desperately trying to understand what it is that we can do to help in your sitch. So if you can articulate it why are you truly trying to save a MR that has been effectively over for more than a year at this point? Why do you want to be married to a person you think is a pretty crummy person as a whole? What steps have to taking to actively detach, GAL and 180 the most basic tenets of DBing? How long to you plan to stand for this MR? Why are you standing for this MR? What would it take for you to be the first to file for D? And what is it that we here on this board can do to support your journey?

Joshua… I WISH I was 34 when all of this happened to me. I know it doesn’t feel like it right now but your W has given you a gift. You have so much time to find that person who is compatible with you and wants the same things you want.

Your description of your marriage does not sound like one that most people would want to be in. Communication, honesty, loyalty, affection…all really important. You don’t sound like you had any of these things and that you were more in love with the person you thought your W could be than who she actually was. Frankly, your W just sounds really immature and likely is someone who was way more in love with the idea of getting married than she was with being married. Not unusual for someone in their mid-20’s. That is still really, really young…in particular with she was still living at home. That period of independence between parents’ home and marital home is so, so important for emotional development. Maybe not in everyone’s case but definitely in most.

Your W has made it very, very clear in her behaviour that she is not interested in saving your marriage. You’ve been apart for over a year and only talked on three occasions? In the meantime she has been living at home and dating OM? If you had a friend in this same situation, what advice would you give to him? Your wife may not have filed for divorce but she did send you papers to sign. She hasn’t pursued you signing them because 1) she has made her feelings clear by giving you papers and 2) she has no real reason to at this point. You can bet that if she starts thinking about marrying someone else, she will be knocking on your door or sending you emails through her lawyer.

My question to you is… Why haven’t you signed them? Do you really, in your heart of hearts, believe she is coming back? Even if that were true, a divorce does not prevent someone from returning and asking for another chance. By not signing them though, you are clearly telling her you are still hanging on and she could return anytime she wants and that she is in charge of what happens. She has no urgency or reason to do anything one way or the other. In the meantime, life is passing you by while you live in limbo.

I agree with what others have advised. You need to ask yourself how much more of your life you are willing to give up waiting around for something that is highly unlikely to happen. Another year? Two years? Five years? Because you could give it ten years and the only thing that will be different is that you will be 44 and starting over instead of 34. Do not waste those years my friend. I am 53 and agree with what LH said, the years between 34 and now are a blur and seem more like 10 years than 20 years. Life is way too short to be spending it pining away for someone who treated you poorly and has clearly moved on.

Sorry…I hate to sound harsh but you need to really come to terms with the reality of this situation. You still have plenty of time to build that life you want with someone who wants the same things. If you knew, 100% for sure, that you would meet that person in the next year or two and in five years, you would be living your best life with a supportive wife who loves you and a couple of kids you love more than life, would you still choose to hang onto your W or would you sign those papers? If your answer is the latter, than I submit to you that what is keeping you from moving on is fear and not love. Embrace the fear Joshua. Free yourself from your situation and get started on making that new amazing life for yourself!!

Were you a virgin when you met her? Was she your first long-term girlfriend?

Joshua, regarding sexual interest. First, you say she didn't communicate (stonewalled). Them, you say she did communicate (comments that emasculated you, comments that made you feel guilty, you suspected not wanting to get pregnant was a problem). have a thought experiment for you. If your wife were being given a voice, writing to explain why she lost interest in sex, what would she say? Start with the emasculating, guilting, not-wanting-pregnancy comments you mentioned. Include what she said in 4mo of IC. Being able to understand her perspective and your faults would help if you were to resume or seek another relationship. Communication involves listening.

You said you had trouble finding an affordable IC. How about your MC? You already know them, you already paid for them for 4mo (affordable), and they heard her perspective firsthand.

That applies to both of you, no? In MC, I recall "If you loved me you'd do X for me." was sometimes met with "If you loved me you'd accept me not doing X." There's a limit to how far either partner can bend without building up resentment. I'd hope the vast majority of sex in any marriage is because both people desire it, not transactional (icky!) to meet the others' needs.