BD April 2019 with the famous ILYBNILWY. Started an affair a few weeks before that timing. Immediately found out. Lying, spewing, rewriting of history, wanting both of us, etc. until I kicked him out 09/2019. Came back 2 months later, totally broken. (way too soon) Final break-up with OW 02/2020.
COVID so home from 02/2020 until 08/2020. Deep outward depression, first signs of aknowledgement that something is really wrong with him. Still shows a lot of running behavior such as drinking heavily.
Accepts new job abroad since 04/2020, working from home since COVID, asked him to leave for the other country in 08/2020 since behavior is extremely bad for myself and my 3 boys, all teenagers.
From 09/2020 until 12/2020 slightly showing improvement whilst abroad, new running behavior...working out (sports) to an extreme level. As from 12/2020 clear set-back into tunnel, start of OW2 but denies it.
01/2021 - 11/2021: In January he informs me that OW1 passed away (suicide), also asked for divorce, I agree. Still lives abroad and has R with OW2, denies the R until 09/2021. Clinging towards me and the boys remains present at all times.
10/2021 until today: Break-up with OW2, divorce final, returns home, starts doing some work on himself but still very difficult at times. Presumably in last 3 stages but who will tell...
I respectfully disagree. It's just my opinion but it feels like Ground Hog's day on this thread.
Originally Posted by LH19
Eagle, Ground Hogs day is a movie where a guy wakes up and lives the same day every day without anything changing. It was my attempt to say that three years later you are doing the same thing expecting different results. Also known as the definition of insanity. One of my favorite quotes fits here "you can ignore reality but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality".
LH, Can I honestly ask you what is respectful about this reply?
You literally call me an insane person.
Either I misunderstand or I am actually reading it correctly and you are simply out to hurt me deeply. Well, I can honestly tell you that you succeeded.
To be clear, if I had been stuck for 3 years, I wouldn't be divorced today (remember, this takes a few months in the best case) and our house wouldn't be for sale. Everything, absolutely everything, was in my hands in regards to this.
The only thing I didn't do was give him up on him emotionally, for 3 years I picked him up when he fell hard. And yes, that was wrong, but if you have shared your life with someone for 18 years, it is very difficult to let that person down. Like DnJ said, he keeps coming back, and I've allowed this. Only the last time he came back (this was 2 months ago) he said that he did not come back to save our M, but because he was so stuck and needed a safe place to land. His actions and words the first weeks told the opposite, however, in the last weeks a complete turnaround (wanting back to OW2, expression of aggression, etc.) which made me realize that I have done enough for him.
Mentally I have made the right decisions, emotionally until recently not. Yes, that was because I loved him deeply.
Sorry LH, I'm really blown away by your response. You may talk to each other that way, but in my culture this is not the way to threat people. I may be the only one on this forum who thinks this is wrong, so be it.
But luckily most of the people who I got to know over the past year have proofed otherwise.
Teaching them how to enforce their own healthy boundaries with ex might be useful at their age.
If ex is on attack in a really inappropriate way, teach those boys how to respectfully remove themselves from a hostile abuse situation. If they start getting bombarded by texts of that nature , teach them to say “ if we can’t have a respectful non-hostile conversation, I am going to put my phone on so not disturb for a while and maybe later when you are calmer, we can have an calm constructive conversation about this” or something to that effect.
It seems as if for years to come they are going to need to have to learn to have boundaries with their father, even as grown adults. Now is a really good time to start. Respectful boundaries are such an important lesson I wish I knew more about when i was younger
I do not believe you were ever the backup plan. Most LBS are not. He has been nothing but honest with you in the process but you chose not to listen to him saying oh that’s the MLC talking. That’s why IMO this board can get people stuck.
I believe most LBS are a backup plan. Not a well thought out, rational, realized, sitting on the shelf, plan B; more a fallback if things all fall apart. A safety net, like LH wisely and correctly stated.
If LBS are not considered a safety net or plan B, the removal of such would not matter.
If Eagle was never a plan, why did her H return.
Eagle, in my opinion, you’ve never been stuck. You have been moving forward. And quite well.
Originally Posted by LH19
Lastly I’m curious I read on Stella’s thread you told her to listen to the people on here because they are giving her great advice. Then you basically tell her to ignore it until she’s ready. Why would you tell her that knowing how much more pain she will likely go through?
Originally Posted by Eagle3
I don’t tell her to ignore it. I tell her to take it with her in the process she is going through. I don’t know how it felt for you but I know many, when they got the advice, they don’t want to follow all of it, or do it step by step, simply because they are not ready yet. And that’s ok. You need to do it at your own pace. Pressure is not a good way to act either. Some of them can do this fairly quick, I remember El took on the advice quickly, but that doesn’t mean that the pain is less of will go away. All I said to her, do what you feel is right for you, since you are the most important person in this process now. That’s all.
We all need to experience our pain. There is no shortcut. However, it can be unnecessarily extended. Well, perhaps not unnecessarily. Just as everyone requires a certain amount of understanding and rationalizing before being able to let go, everyone requires a level of experienced pain as well. We all need to touch the hot stove, no matter how many warnings.
We only control ourselves. And one will choose when they follow the advice of those that have come before.
Originally Posted by LH19
For the record I do believe that everyone here typically learns the hard way.
Originally Posted by bttrfly
I'm not sure I agree with the implication of the 'typically learns the hard way' statement…
Originally Posted by LH19
BF I agree with you that you the greatest teacher is pain. As I said I believe our jobs as vets are to minimize the pain. I also agree that it’s a divorce busting website and everyone is presumably here to save their marriage. Fortunately the advice we give both reduces the pain and gives you the best chance to save your marriage. If you notice not many people here save their marriage because they have a difficult time DBing. Anyways one way or another we all survive.
Awesome discussion.
It’s not just here that everyone “learns the hard way”. That is true everywhere.
However, it’s not learning.
Learning can come the easy way or the hard way. Growth is always the hard way.
Pain is fantastic motivator, it is horrible teacher. Experience is the great teacher, not pain. And a lot of experience comes from our interaction with our pain and feedback of life.
One needs to see clearly to make choices to direct their path. Limit their pain, if you will.
All personal growth is painful. We only grow when out of our comfort zone. And being out of our comfort zone is scary, painful, intimidating, and so on. Everything and anything but comfortable. That is the realm of experience gaining and learning.
One can learn (or not) from other’s experience. Listen and apply the counterintuitive advice and wisdom of others. In this application there will be growth, oftentimes painful and unwanted. Ah, such is all growth.
As a vet… Ha, I suppose I am. My experience and wisdom was hard-earned.
As a vet, I freely share my views and beliefs and thoughts. I encourage those to listen to all advice and yet not necessarily heed all advice, for they must travel their path. Plenty of advice first sounds wrong to the one receiving it. Emotional pain is such a counterintuitive journey. Eventually folks find their way. Us fellow travellers compassionately encouraging and inspiring where we can.
It’s not the pain that teaches. It is a indicator of growth. Lean into the pain, and listen to the wisdom of others. Consider their words. And when one is ready, apply them.
That application is either for or against. Advice may not be applicable to someone’s situation. Or applicable for the moment. Everyone know their situation best, for they are living it. Either way, growth happens. Experience is gained. Lessons are learnt. Wisdom accumulates.
That being said, for those starting out, realize where you are. Listen and apply. If there is a large consensus of agreement of fellow travellers in a certain path or advice, consider it carefully. I’m not a proponent of blind faith. I do encourage having faith and following the wisdom of the compassionate folks here. All while, seeking understanding and rationalization of why to do so. An understanding and belief in why and what you do and live.
Originally Posted by bttrfly
LH, I agree with you about our role here as vets. Sadly, it takes so long to unwind, to learn how to detach. Our exes have the jump on us in that department, for sure, whether or not they've added a third party to the mix.
I don't know how to jump start that for someone coming here. The pre-programming is too strong to go cold turkey.
Yes, our pre-programming is very strong. You well know the poison I needed to transmute.
My XW is a vanisher. Lucky. Now looking back. At the time, I’d have given anything for a more common clinger. J was so off the rails. A rarity, ever for here. I so wanted the normal MLCer (haha, as if there is such a thing). As I said, lucky.
For what it’s worth, at first we are reprogramming ourselves. Basically, fighting against years and years of ingrained life experience. Fighting begets fighting. We fight back, against our efforts.
I found my path early. It’s complimentary programming, not re-programming. It’s building upon who we are. Finding peace. Strengthening our beliefs and convictions that serve. And letting go that which doesn’t. Understanding, rationalizing, empathizing, being compassionate, and so on.
How to jump start for someone. We can’t. All we can do is inspire and encourage. Detachment is the single best step forward. And it is a big one. I do so encourage folks to heed the wise suggestions of focus on you, be a gray rock, go dim, etc.
My path was greatly affected by who I am. I’m a technician by trade. A rather technical and logically oriented guy, who maintained a squishy heart through out this. I heeded the advice. Choose better not bitter. Eventually blocked J on FB. And so on. I saw the wisdom of that. And I knew I wanted it; and I absolutely did not feel like I did. I hated it actually. Absolutely detested the phrase “fired from the role of husband”. Lol.
Feelings are fleeting. A tenet I’ve encouraged plenty. I delved within and brought forth my convictions and live them. Let feeling flit, for they are temporary.
I went cold turkey. It hurt horribly. It passed. I was blessed. And I feel great. (Positive values encourage and reinforce positive feelings and thoughts.)
Once one finds the courage to let go that which they cannot change, they will find peace.
Thank you LH, DnJ, Ginger, Bttrfly and BL42 for sharing your opinions.
Originally Posted by LH19
It was my attempt to say that three years later you are doing the same thing expecting different results. Also known as the definition of insanity.
For what it's still worth, it was this sentence that hit me really hard.
Originally Posted by LH19
One of my favorite quotes fits here "you can ignore reality but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality".
Not this one. Taking into account that written language can sometimes hit a lot harder. And after what I've been through with EXH the last few months, I couldn't have this yesterday.
Originally Posted by LH19
I have been through the pain you have and don't want to see you going through it over and over. I hope you find peace.
Originally Posted by LH19
Eagle I apologize again I just get frustrated when I see good people like yourself abused by these blood sucking leaches and destroy perfectly good families. If I saw your STBXH I would like to kick him in the nuts. Definitely not a metaphor lol.
I’m more fond of the above two statements LH. Thank you for that 😊
As Bttrfly and DnJ stated, yes, I did everything I could to keep my family together, to help my EXH in any way I could. Remember, MLC is a different kind of animal to deal with, and my EXH couldn't be the more typical MLC’er out there. For many of you this is not important, for me this has been crucial. But the main thing is that in the meantime I have not forgotten to continue living and to further develop my own life together with the children, and this without EXH.
Already two years ago I started to go out with friends again, contacted old friends and expanded these friendships again, started to do sports, went on trips with the children and with friends, etc.
In the meantime I'm divorced, I'm selling our home and I'm looking to buy something new. And yes, I'm looking forward to it, to finally have a place of my own where I can build new memories with my children while their still teenagers.
That is why it is now easier for me to switch quickly, because everything is almost arranged now.
Would I have handled it differently if I had known beforehand what would happen in those 3 years, I most probably wouldn’t. I have also learned a lot about myself. Learned to have patience, to be able to be forgiving and compassionate, even in the most difficult circumstances and last but not least, the lesson that was the hardest for me to learn, is not to avoid the conflict when being walked over and ignore a person when their behavior is total unreasonable. That was a very difficult step for me.
EXH occasionally sends messages in a very short and rude manner. I hold my ground and refuse to answer. He will eventually stop it I guess, if he doesn't, then so be it.
Originally Posted by BL42
Murray's character is a pompous jerk to those people he interacts with, including his (female) co-worker. He gets stuck in this small town where he relives the same exact day over and over and over again. However, over time HE changes. He learns to take an interest in and care for others (his friend the insurance salesman, saves the kid from the tree, feeds the homeless man), he works to improve himself (takes piano lessons, reads poetry, learns the heimlich...etc.), becomes a better man and only then ends up attracting his love interest.
So, if I read it right, even Murray wasn’t stuck forever. He eventually learns to move forward?
Just as everyone requires a certain amount of understanding and rationalizing before being able to let go, everyone requires a level of experienced pain as well. We all need to touch the hot stove, no matter how many warnings.