Divorcebusting.com Forums Thread Like Summary - Saving Pack through D, Pack_19 part V

Link to previous thread - https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2914041&page=1

Hi all! I hope everyone is well and healthy. I just read about Sandi not logging in and, hoping for the best, I just want say how incredibly helpful she has been for me and I am sure others. I literally have a note on my work monitor to remind myself to keep all I have learned here as a compass in my life.

I have been really busy finding a new job, with the house in Germany and gathering documents and information for the D so I took a time away from the forum and my books again. I feel like I am finally understanding the path to my happiness, taking care of myself and my needs and just pouring all the love I have onto my children. I still struggle with what my M and family could have been, but am growing stronger everyday with the goal of becoming the man I am meant to be.

Let´s go point by point. I was very frustrated in my old job, being in Spain, asking for a promotion and only being given the "you need to keep growing" feedback was not easy. So last summer I updated my CV and went job hunting for a remote position. I interviewed with Google and Facebook, some banks and tech companies but eventually it was a process started by a recruiter that has landed me a better job remotely from Spain (yay!) with a US based company. I have a more senior position (still doing machine learning in the cloud), I get more benefits, an amazing base salary and it is not an IT company so the team atmosphere so far it´s been great. I started this month because I was asked to stay in my previous role to finish a customer project I was responsible for, but I can say it has been an improvement in my life and therefore that of my children. Of course when I said I was leaving the previous job, my teammates were surprised and my manager offered me a remote position in Spain but it was too late by then.

I bought that motorbike I kept talking about (next step is the BMW M) and despite I ride very carefully, the feeling of freedom and speed is just amazing even when you are doing 30 mph. I use it to go to the crossfit mostly but again I love it. I completed my first half marathon race last month at 1:37:00 and I am incredibly proud! Now training for a full marathon, still riding the bike, wearing nice clothes, taking care of my hygiene, lifting heavier weights at crossfit and doing my sexual kung fu exercises (LOL). I am mostly focused now on working on Pack emotionally and intellectually. I recently finished Seduction and What Women Want When They Test Men and I am working on my self-esteem, my unalterable terms and building a life according to my principles. The hardest part is working on accepting this is permanent, my new life, my new family, the time I will get with my children and the reality that if I am ever ready to date again, I will need to be sincere and put all the cards on the table regarding my life situation and the importance of my children in my life. But I am not ready yet, I am still saving Pack from this hell and cementing my changes for my new life.

I have now filed for D with my new L. I have filed based on my principles, the time in this open M / limbo and to force me to move on (sadly, I needed this). He has helped me with many things I struggled in the past. Such as imposing I dont have to be there stuck to my phone at 20 pm so that my children talk to W daily on the phone, never to let her make a scene again (as you ALL told me here), protecting myself and replacing child support that she is clearly not spending on them for private tuition at a bilingual school here. I had to collect a lot of documents but the D papers are now sent and we are awaiting response from W and her L.

We sold the house to a lovely couple in Munich! We traveled our separate ways to Munich and met there at the notary. I tried to frame the trip as business but just setting foot there brought me all the memories about how proud I was of the education our kids were getting there, my job and just in general being in a city with so many opportunities and such level of progress. I cried a lot, in the solitude of my hotel room but it was a terrible time. I also went to the bank to ensure I could operate on the benefits from the selling and move the funds to Spain. Once the money finally arrived, and remember I have been solely covering the mortgage since October 2019 when W left home and paying child support as well, I sent my L all the calculations based on the expenses I had covered and sent W her part of the benefits. Of course, she returned the money, claiming that the calculation was unfair and I got a very nice letter from her L accusing me of a crime by moving the money from our shared account in Germany. I lost it for a bit but I have learned by now not to act on my emotional reactions. I calmed down, prepared all proof of bank movements and sent it to my L. When I talked to my L, he told me to sleep well because I had committed no crime and he reassured me he would make the most so that W cannot have nothing more than what is fair. The money is in my bank account now (I refuse to play a tennis game of bank transfers) and I am waiting for action from her L.

Looking back at all the money transfers in 2019 I could really see how idiot I have been when I was emotionally a wreck. W just wanted to get away from me regardless of the pain or destruction and do it asap and I was just there saying "yes go, I will take care of all responsibilities from our shared life, you go and dance and drink with OM at the night club". What a Muppet of a man, thank God he is no more. I am going to show my children what a strong man does, how he is happy, how he treats women and how he guides his life by his principles.

W has not changed a bit, she is all love with the kids but continues to treat me with disrespect and hatred. Our last fight was due to the new school for the kids. I am going to pay everything so I went in search of the best one that fitted my budget. I visited 3 schools and finally made a choice. When I contacted W for her agreement, she replied back that she was unsure about the change now and that I had not involved her in the decision. I talked to my L and he said there was no reason for W to reject a new private bilingual school starting next course. Not only she won't help, but now she has decided to be a constant obstacle in anything I try to do wrt the children. BTW, I talked to S8 and he all in for the new school were he can have native English speakers as teachers. I am not sure how to proceed here, whether via my L or try to reason with W.

I always have in my head that sentence on short term inconvenience for long term happiness. I am still very broken inside, so I wanted to come back to continue to improve and learn from you all and to ask for help in saving me through the D. I never wanted this, I was convinced it would never be me the one filing, I wanted to reunite my family and give my children the love and stability they deserve but W´s priorities are just out of sync with mine now. I want to learn here how to be a strong man and how to parent my children through the D. As time passes, I am also learning to see where I failed as a man and H and where I was a rock star, because in some aspects I was.I still struggle with the idea that my M is dead, and it has been dead for a long time and my W is the person I see in front of me now, not the one I had imagined in my head.

My updated PIES:

P - Prepare that marathon, continue to ride the bike and improve my best marks on crossfit. Continue to eat healthy and limiting the amount of alcohol. Practice the sexual kung-fu exercises and dress well.
I - Grow to become a team leader in the new job, continue to read about men and woman and exercise and diet. Get the car I always wanted.
E - Listening actively to anyone I can, focusing on the things I have and finding happiness in building the best possible R with my children. Regaining self esteem and confidence in front of women and learning to be happy alone. Forgiving myself for all my DB mistakes, but never letting them happen again. Detach from W and M.
S - Knowing Pack better, understanding my values and priorities and living with them and learning to like and care for these. Accept I cannot control my way out of this.

Thank you all, please keep posting. I am looking forward to hearing your suggestions.

Hi all,

I hope you are all healthy, my heart is always with everyone in this board.

I have not been posting actively but was instead in the background reading golden nuggets from old veterans and the new compilation by R2C (thanks for the work!). I have re-read my entire thread over again and I have read Sandi's original thread, how lucky I was to have her take interest in my sitch. Reading that some young men were taking her first drops of advice as too aggressive made me smile, it reminded me of the day she told me she hoped her posts wouldn't make me leave the forum and all I could think was, your advice is the best thing that could happen to me now. I imagine you have not heard from her, I miss her, I wish I could hug her and thank her in person.

I remain focused on my children, my PIES and building a new life for Pack. I have improved all my PRs in crossfit, I joined a competition in 3 weeks and I am preparing a second marathon. I am working on prioritizing the relationship with friends and relatives that allow me to grow emotionally and I still have that voice in my head helping me validate feelings and active listening on any chance I have. I am reading "Models" again and I just bought "The rational male". I have identified that I am strong in conversation and lifestyle when it comes to attracting high value women, but I need to work on approaching more and accepting rejection as a way to increase the number of women I am exposed to in my life. I also continue practicing my sexual kung-fu.

I have thought a lot about the last advice I got from you all on becoming the man for my kids, a presence so shining that all other models fade in comparison. I can tell they love spending time with me, they are excited about the new house and I am now planning a trip to disneyland paris with them and my sister. This summer I made sure they both took swimming lessons, it truly helped them get better. I am now in my summer break, I spend days with S9 on the padel surf board and yesterday I took him to the gokarts again. I had such a blast, when I am driving is like all else fades away, I am 100% focused on every braking point, every corner, the adrenaline of overtaking someone who is fast, feeling the car move...I have to work on my career and start a business so that I can go racing as a hobby, simple as that. I had a chat with S9 on bed last night, I asked him how he feels about shared custody and he told me he is tired of changing homes and carrying bags. I told him it was only a stage and that it will also be over and I told him all I care about right now is his happiness.

I go on dates occasionally, I can tell all my hard work and learning is paying back, I've had multiple women show strong interest on getting to know me better, even after I open up about the sitch with the kids. I just havent found that person that makes click in my brain at intellectual, emotional and physical level. She is out there somewhere, I just have to keep improving and be more opened to meeting women in places where I am likely to find that incredible person. I cannot wait to continue learning on the dynamics of R and how attraction works.

Some weeks ago I offered exW to have a longer visit with the kids because they had had swimming lessons, she stated she wanted to drop them early so that they would not go to bed late. I replied they were on holidays and it was fine, and got a feeling she had plans. When I picked them up, some random guy was calling her to the phone. I took the kids and said goodbye. 1 or 2 years ago this would have triggered an emotional reaction on me. I felt sad, but I was careful to not express it out and went home thinking I was lucky to have more time with the kids and that I deserve a woman that never phantoms the idea of replacing me how she has. I am moving on slowly, but ALWAYS making progress.

This week will be the 4 year anniversary since BD, I struggle a lot with how much time I have needed to start moving forward on my own. Maybe this is something we never fully recover from, even if as an individual you grow and improve beyond what you could imagine. Here are some ideas I got from reading all the golden nuggets, to keep me going.

1. When you arrive here you are seeking change in your spouse. However the ugly truth is that you are the only person you can change and it takes two willing spouses to R. Thus, your best approach is to come here seeking your own change, saving yourself, as nobody is coming for you and you are not attractive when you hit rock bottom.

2. Finding the DB forum is a tool so powerful it comes with a piece of responsibility. Here you learn about growth books, parenting, boundaries, social proof, attractiveness, gender differences...if you are given all that information, you have the responsibility to use it to improve your life and therefore that of your children.

3. Someone posted on Sandi's thread "I don't care how big of a bump on a log your husband has become, you are his wife. You helped create what he is today." This hit me hard, I believe people can change, maybe many of the issues I see in W were driven by my behavior and vice-versa. Don't judge your S for he/she has become during this suffering time, in all likelihood you were also lacking as an individual by the time you had the b#lls to post here.

4. I have read a lot about forgiveness, the price you pay for it and how you must move on with it. I don't think I could forgive exW for all her despise, accusations, infidelity and the havoc she caused in what I called our family life. I don't say this from a vengeful perspective, it is just a boundary I have to set and stick to. I remember reading how weak a man can look if you set a boundary and let it be stepped on over and over. Time to put Pack first, I will find someone who admires and respects the man I have become.

5. This is how I should have reacted when I was talking about fighting for my M, thinking whether to keep or not my ring on, praying for the chance to communicate with exW about our M and yet knowing there was OM1.
"well, sorry it's come to this, I wish you every happiness, it's been a great so many number of years, give my best to OM, but I'm outta here, like NOW!"

My PIES, guiding me everyday!

P - Improve my PRs in crossfit. Marathon under 3´30". Gain 5 Kg in muscle weight, keep my wardrobe fresh. Chin up and chest out, I should be proud of the new man I have become. Practice my sexual kung fu.
I - Start a company or build a career that allows me to go racing as a hobby. Improve my driving and riding skills. Learn about men and women.
E - Improve my active listen, show empathy, stay humble and work on improving myself as a man and father. Approach more women and start conversations. Take rejection as a positive filter. DETACH and enjoy being single in all that is means. DO NOT CHASE ANY WOMAN
S - Talk to God and be a role model for my kids. Keep growing, keep improving as a man.

Thank you all, sorry it took so long to post again, I see no changes in my sitch and think others could better use the time of our veterans.

Hi all,

Thanks a lot for your words, coming here is always coming to a safe place and for more learning.

I am finally divorced. No excuses to move forward, no more thoughts about one person single-handed changing a R and no more thoughts of having ExW or my old family back. We signed last December. I did not tell anyone, I showed up there read the new agreement, waited for her to sign it, came in afterwards, signed it and left to crossfit (the crossfit gym is officially my second home, I am thinking about putting a mattress there and paying them rent). My L made a remark on how W seemed unease as we were signing it, I did not pay attention to her, I never do. I think it is probably the apathy I feel towards this stranger she has become and the way I have written in my head that interacting with her is just getting more disrespect and pain.

My children, my PIES and Pack are the center of my universe. I work very hard on being there for my children and give them the right balance between a loving father, a reference male figure and the authority they need to grow to become responsible and loving men. Last week I re-read my previous four threads and it is giving me a new perception. I remember times at home when W was asking me to sit further away from her, hiding messages on her phone, when she mocked me about me learning about relationships from books and all the painful days thinking about potential OMs and crying on my bed. I must still be in love with the image I hold of her and my family but there is no way that she loved me during each of those episodes, she probably never did and we only got married because we had just had a baby and it felt the right thing to do to her.

Whenever we interact I am a distant father, nothing more. I leave the first, I discuss any matters about S4 or S9 that worries me and I ask for a reply by email. I am present at every school event, I take them to sports and I read with them everyday, but I no longer even mention mom to them. I am more detached, I talked about my life in the UK and Germany in first person, I have goals for the future and I have learned the amount of baggage I carry due to my failed M and my broken family.

However, I still listen to my recording with the golden nuggets from this forum more often that I should to remind me that I am work in progress and need to continue improving in my PIES. Main difference is that now I tell myself, it has been over 3 years Pack, a lot of things happen in 3 years, you have to move on and you have to start a new life for you and your kids. I dont talk to anyone about my D or ExW, I think this is one of the reasons why I wanted to come back here, it is still in my head but I have blocked the subject outside of my support circle.

Sometimes when we exchange the kids ExW comes with new friends, people I have never seen and it just makes me think that she really meant to start over and a new life the many times she told me that at home in Munich. Sometimes we discuss medical issues from the kids and I message at the end that I wish her a good day. No expectations, just being polite, and she never comes back. I dont expect any or are hurt by this behaviour, it just makes me think she still hates me and blames me for all. Having forced myself to move on, even when my brain is still pulled towards the fantasy of our live in Germany, I struggle a lot with how this is going to affect our children now and in the long term. As I have said many times here, I want them to learn how to respond to this behaviour from a woman so I try to be cordial but strong in front of ExW.

I still struggle with the idea that there have been multiple OMs and there will be more to come. I am scared of ExW moving on to a new R and bringing a new man to the world of our children. I know I will always be their only father and the one they will admire and look up to and that is fully under my control. But I struggle with the thought that the person who swore to be your life partner in good and bad just gives up and builds a new life. She must not have valued me much as a man, even before we got married.

My PIES continue to be on full mode. Last sunday I ran a half marathon in 1:30 and that was a personal target I had. I am reading again "The multi orgasmic man" and practising my sexual kung-fu, I keep using any chance I get to practice active listening and improving my empathy. I get attention from women, which tells me that I am doing the right thing, is just that at my age is hard to find people who accept you being the father of 2 children, one of them being 9. Not that I care now, I am still building the amazing solo life for Paco.

Updated PIES:
P - Improve my PRs in crossfit. Marathon under 3´30". Gain muscle weight, keep my wardrobe fresh. Chin up and chest out, I should be proud of the new man I have become. Practice my sexual kung fu and improve my diet.
I - Improve as a leader at work, read more about financial success and investments. Promote at work
E - Improve my active listen, show empathy, stay humble and work on improving myself as a man and father. Let W go, accept it is over and there is only one way ahead and it is not what I wanted it to be. DETACH and think as the single man I am.
S - Accept I cannot control my way out of this, talk to God, know the man I am, the man I want to be a define a path to get there.

When I last saw my L to talk about payments he made a joyful comment at the door. He said, btw pack, you are no longer divorced, you are now single. I am not sure if he means he has been able to process the annulment of our M. If so, fresh start and chin up.

Can I ask for some help with an issue. What is the best way to show or express to S9 that I am pass trying to get W back and moving ahead alone. Is there value in even showing this to him? I may have failed in the fight for my marriage, but this will not determine the caliber of a man I am.

Thank you all for your support and comments.

((hugs))
Pack

Just be polite. That's all that's required.

Pack, I get what you are saying about not wanting to be fake with her. However, I think you just continue to DB. You treat her with politeness. You are kind like you would be to a total stranger. But you do not over share with her, just like the cashier at the store.

Her: "Hi, how'd it go with them?"
You: "It went well. We did some fun things, I am sure they will tell you."
Her: "Ok I will have to discuss it with them, but they seem like they enjoyed it."
You: "Yes, they really did seem to have a good time."
Her: "Okay well, we have some fun things planned to, we are going to go here and do this."
You: "That sounds great! They should enjoy that. Hey, I have to get going, I have some place I need to be."

Then leave.

R2C likes to say "Never stop DBing!" I agree with him. You DB with her for the rest of your life. Not to save the marriage (since that is now beyond all of that), but to have a friendly, polite R with her but still keep her at arms length.

I won’t tell you what to do but believe you are wrong in saying “it won’t change anything”.
It will change your kids experience.
A friend is also going through D, not as complicated as some sitches here but with a bit of aggression and hostility. At one point my friend wasn’t speaking to his ex at all. Hardly emails.
Their seven year old daughter started having severe anxiety and sleeping problems. That all ended when they decided to be more polite/cordial during exchanges and communication.

Hi DnJ,

Thanks for coming here and posting! The incident with the VR set was so funny, S9 would ask me "dad do you know what you are facing?"and I was saying "look, all I know is I am in bar and I have a big metal table in front of me!"and he burst into laughing.


I always assumed she was the person that knew me best, the one that had access to my rough corners and no matter how bad our M was, not once I considered giving up or seeking fun outside. I have met W since D that have told me I am a great man and have all it takes to make someone the happiest next to me, and yet my brain circles back to those hurtful words she told me over and over at home in Munich. I need to work harder on the source of my perception of myself and the values that guide me.



I imagine this is the reason why when I could focus back on work, started reading all my great books and poured all my frustration into physical activity, I started seeing things from a different perspective and really building the new man I am now. I feel like I am missing the step when I fully forgive myself for past errors and can find peace in this new life, divorced and co parenting for the next X years.

Here I understand is where is need to make peace with my demons, live with those fears about exW and my future and realize that by living through them I will prove myself that I am much stronger than I believe. Instead of going back to a free or trauma mind, find peace with my post trauma life and the baggage I will carry from now on.

Now when I look at the past 3 years, something tells me my beliefs and core values where in the background always beating, like the heart in Poe's story, however my emotional desperation had blocked them. I would come here and read Steve's comment saying, Pack if your W had been unfaithful in the M, how would you have reacted? and then think, he is so damn right, what are you fighting for you tin-head! Same now with my career, I think a lot about how could it would be to move to the US and build a career in NY or CA but my core immediately brings me back to earth and shouts (not without the kids Pack, nothing will come in between you and them again). What I am trying to say is that the compass guided by my values is still there and I just had forgotten about it. All I need is techniques to overcome those thoughts and set my mind ahead.

I recently watched a great TEDx about overcoming heartbreak and it covered all the things this board provides. Get a life, stop idealizing the R (fog), think about exW flaws, fill up your PIES and recognize that you are emotionally a wreck and will be distracted for a longer period than you expected. I was watching the video and thinking about this forum and how lucky I am I had the drive to come and join this community.


This is great advice, I will continue to work on this. The challenge I face is that when I have all business meetings is the time when S9 needs some support with homework and S5 wants his afternoon snack. I tell myself always, there are 2 kinds of weeks, no kids and give it all at work, kids and accept that I cannot be nowhere as productive. I have learned to live like this. I run often when I dont have the kids, I handle my financial issues, get my haircut and so on those weeks.

It's funny because as a loving strong man, you now the quality time with them is what matters, but you also want to shine at work to be able to offer them a great home, travelling experience, the possibility to study abroad and hobbies to enjoy with you. At least I feel it this way, which is good because is a strong drive I have to perform at work and have a great career. However, I also know by the time I am in my 40s, S9 will be 20 and I guess maybe then I can move again and they will want to come with me, idk, I am just thinking.

This post has really given me fuel to refocus on Pack and my PIES. Clearly the emotional dimension is the one I need to polish the most now. I am on it!

Thanks DnJ