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H took the boys on a short camping trip. They got back today and I asked S21, "Was Dad nice?" S21's response was "Yes and he's not moving back in."
Ok... not what I asked...
So I asked S21 for more details - a little more context - S21 immediately shut down. Then I asked S18 to explain that comment. I was really just trying to see if H meant not moving back in after 6 month separation or ever. Well, I guess H talked to them a bit about this and said that he didn't want to live with someone who didn't make him happy. I don't want to put the boys between us but when they offer up that kind of information unsolicited it makes that very hard. H should not have said that to the boys without saying that to me first.
I certainly can understand your frustration with H’s talking about details with the kids. However, control and expectations. You cannot, and do not, control H nor your kids. You only control you. Also, you cannot expect H to tell you stuff first, or not to tell the kids, or friends, or whomever.
Yes, it would be nice if H would speak to you first. Of course, if he would/did he wouldn’t be where he is.
Expectations are tricky and sneaky. We place them upon more than we realize. It takes a weird calm mindset to kind of go along with the flow, yet still control and direct what you can control. Embracing limbo. Embracing uncertainty.
H has the right to speak to anyone. So do you. So do the kids. You are all adults.
You cannot prevent H from speaking his narrative. Most crisis folks use friends, family, the legal system, work, etc. to their own ends. This is especially troublesome when it turns to weaponizing the kids. Luckily, it sounds like H is not purposefully going that far. He is just sharing his feelings with them.
The best you can do - lead by example. Be the strong stable parent.
When S21 and S18 brought up the unsolicited information about how Dad doesn’t want to live with some who doesn’t make him happy, would be a good time to have put forth the knowledge that happiness doesn’t come for others, or external sources, happiness comes from within.
I’m sure another opportunity will present itself and you can expound upon the source of happiness, while not blaming their Dad. Just explaining that Dad’s unhappiness (or joy), like anyone’s, comes from within him.
Yes, you don’t want to place the boys in the middle of this. However, it is perfectly fine to discuss topics they wish to discuss. And IMHO, they wouldn’t have blurted out that info if they hadn’t wanted you to know or hadn’t wanted to discuss or say something further. (Raised four teenagers. They are really good at not telling stuff they don’t want you to know. ) Be open for them to lead the conversation where they want/need it to go.
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
One of the other things that H said to the boys was that he was disappointed that I didn't say to him "Let's work on our relationship" or "I want to make this work". Was he expecting ME to do that? I mean, what?? After he cheated on me, rejected me for months and then walked out on me? And then signed up for dating services the second he was gone? The first rule of DB is DO NOT SAY ANYTHING LIKE THAT. So I was pretty surprised (and confused) to hear that. I thought he wanted space and was trying to give it to him. And honestly, hearing that from me wouldn't have changed anything. He would have just known he had me on a string.
That is typical narrative and justification creation. H is crafting “reasons” for why he is doing what he is doing. Don’t fall for it.
You are absolutely correct: No R talks!
H will use whatever you say, or don’t say, against you. After all, he just did.
I mean seriously, H is disappointed with you? For stuff you didn’t do?
R, that is pure projection. H cannot be wrong. His ego, his emotions, his mind, is too frail; he is too steeped in denial; he is too much running to be able to blame himself. Therefore, he blames you. Projection.
Any fighting against his narrative and he will fight and gaslight you.
Just let him be.
Fighting begets fighting.
You focus on you and the kids. You come at things sideways. That weird calm mindset. That embracing limbo.
Give H to God.
Leave the door open a crack.
Be the lighthouse.
AND, live and love your life! Without H! (Like he is not coming back.)
You don’t have to divorce. Or date. Or anything like that. Definitely not. lol. Embrace being single. Do fun things. Do what brings you joy. Dust off old hobbies and interests from years ago. Stuff you put away with marriage and kids and husband.
Remember, happiness, joy, comes from within. That’s for you too!
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
Why is having a conversation clingy? Maybe I'm just not seeing that, maybe it's a blind spot for me. But, I find it very hard, after 23 years of marriage, to walk away without having ANY conversation. I would like some communication here and I owe that to myself. I have zero expectations as to the outcome. I think a big part of me wants to force him to face me. He has been such a coward, telling the boys he is not coming back but not saying anything to me.
Control.
You cannot force H to face you. The more you try, the more he will run.
Let go the rope, or be dragged.
Time and space. Give him lots! Let him choke on it.
H needs to feel the loss, feel pain, before he will alter his course. He needs to hit rock bottom.
Originally Posted by RegretfulLA
Maybe this didn't come across correctly. I don't intend to wait until he "gets better." Not at all. But as I'm writing this out, I can see that there is not really a way to hold space for someone and move on at the same time. I intend to move on. Not to wait. I guess I am having a hard time shutting the door. It's so obvious that he needs a lot of help, but it's up to me to get over that urge to fix.
H had a semi-traumatic upbringing with his unstable Mom; an unfortunate career/financial outcome; suffered from depression; etc. Lots of stuff to heal from.
You didn’t break him. Therefore, you cannot fix him.
Let the man upstairs have a go with him.
You don’t have to completely shut the door. By the way, the door; house:; etc; are metaphors for the relationship. So you can keep the door ajar. But H just can’t come waltzing in whenever he feels like it. Knock. Announce yourself. Wipe your feet. Take off your shoes. Like a real house, with a real door!
To further the illustrative metaphor. You don’t sit pining away. You go out. You go to movies. Restaurants. Vacations. See friends. See kids. And so on. Sometimes when H comes by, he’ll find you with music cranked up and blaring away with you dancing around. (Metaphorical and otherwise.) Times like that. “Busy H. Talk to you another day.”
Weird calm mindset.
You create your limbo. Which isn’t really all that bad. Once you figure it out. It is kind of counterintuitive.
Hope you and the boys have a wonderful New Year and all the best for 2025.
) Be open for them to lead the conversation where they want/need it to go.