Although I keep getting "Squirrel!" as I track into other posts and threads along the way.
Originally Posted by TSquared2
Hopefully, you will have a "low energy" mlc'er, as Cadet has called it (check out Forever Young's thread) and you will skip that "stage"...
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I've always planned for the future and planned well.
I hear ya!! I dragged myself kicking and screaming to the "live in the NOW" idea, it was so antithetical to my engineer self, but it was the only logical, sane path (ironically)...and I still have trouble with it, to be honest.
"low energy MLC" ... With all W told me last year ("G, I'm more than just X!", on various identities. "G, I didn't know my mission after retiring from military reserves.") before going dark and knowing her for almost 26 years ... I can see and notice the crisis indicators. And I know secrets. The inconsistencies. The forgetfulness. (last week she locked herself out of her RV for the 2nd or 3rd time this year) The changing plans. From the outside, if you didn't know her, you might think just a sad WAS.
I've always run the money/housing, etc.. with an eye to 5, 10, 20 year impacts. We had just about reached retirement investment goals of potential income and enough to present zero burden to children as we age.
"live in the NOW" trouble, "engineer self" logical, yep, yep, yep. I've been working hard this past year to make sure I am living RIGHT NOW (especially with the children every day) and always BE PRESENT by no multitasking and putting down/away any distractions while interacting with anyone.
Originally Posted by ForeverYoung
Originally Posted by Takevowsserious
I think no matter where we are at in our journey, it is hard to detach but still observe. To look for signs, but not have expectations.
I'm starting to believe we all detach as much as we need to, no more, no less... kinda go with the flow, just like a good fighter. Sure, we may miss a block or forget to duck occasionally and take a hit, but we come back smarter and stronger every time.
It took me until she moved herself out and I went dark before I would not be dragged by what I thought she felt. To feel the need to fix her hurt. To see her separately from me...being dragged around by her own emotions. Feeling empathy, because that is not a comfortable place to be.
Originally Posted by TSquared2
I like what Hopper said about conflict, and I think actually BOTH persons can be too giving and too selfish, I think W and I traded roles there depending on the issue.
In hindsight, this is where W and I were. Conflict avoiders? Sort of. Neither of us does conflict well or had it modeled with our parents. Mine never showed conflict to us kids. Hers...well, she was her mom's councilor for grievances against her dad from the age of 13 (but thought her dad was more reasonable). No anger, shouting, or any such thing. Just both of us pushing things aside because, "well, that is a small thing. why make it an issue? it's not important. it is not truly a NEED" Until suddenly with the OM trigger, all that build up was an issue.
Originally Posted by TSquared2
I found the tips for communication in my scrape and paste DB library...
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Use "I" messages. For example, instead of saying, "You get me angry" say "I get angry when you do "X" ....
Avoid "always" or "nevers". These are adjectives that also invite hopelessness or a "why try" attitude because they communicate to your spouse that any positive attempts they have made have been totally overlooked and/or disregarded.
"Whys" can be heard as judgments or put-downs. "Why didn't you take out the garbage?" "Why do you always have to do it that way?" "Why can't you be nicer to me?" Can you sense the attacking mode?
More to the word list. The irony is I do this at work all the time. For many of the people I have supported over the years, I play a side role of editing their documents and emails for sanity and feel. Rephrasing to make clear and constructive communications but leave in the originator's voice. sigh​
Originally Posted by TSquared2
Ya know, the rational, business side of me is just shaking it's head that this is even an issue, for an H to take over these duties...but the other side can understand her...she even has said, both verbally and via email, "I'm a SAHM, its my job, why can't I get into it and just do it?"...
Starting our life together, W said she wanted to be a SAHM and have six children. D19 was colicky for a solid 18 months. Right after birth, while in the recovery room, we could hear her SCREAM over all the other infants at the far end of the hall...for EVERY hour she was not asleep. Sensory issues and other troubles. D17 was somewhat less so, but still, another year of exhaustion. It was overwhelming to emotionally sensitive W, who said she felt like parking the car by the highway overpass, making sure kids were safe, and jumping off ... just to make it stop.
Household duties piled on top. Over time it turned out she liked parts of being a SAHM, but .... actually running a household felt stupid, redundant, and you never got anywhere with dishes, making the food, vacuuming, cleaning, or anything else for all your effort. So, things in the home piled up often. In theory, it was all her domain.
I would try to help, but often got resentment when I accomplished those duties after work. It was confusing to me as in my family growing up these acts of service were appreciated and thanked. It was normal. "W, I see you were busy with the kids all day so I did the dishes." "G, you make me feel incompetent when you do that"I haven't ever been able to resolve this dilemma.
D19, "momma left X all messy and dirty again dad." G, "I know D19, but she always gets upset with me when I fix it." D19, "well, that is her problem isn't it."
Originally Posted by TSquared2
I think the EA hurts more than PA as well, at least it does for me...the EA or a "real" relationship interest is where you feel them toss you out of their heart....imo.
I see she is doing the mental work, realizing what she has done and who it has affected and that she has run from so much and when will she stop? What if she throws all this away and STILL isn't happy? These are some of what she is sounding out with me.
This is true for me. I expressed this to W in that first month. "W, it would be better if you just wanted to f*k and get it out of your system." Snooping found - W thinks they had planned out the conditions under which they would both break their M for each other. W expressed later, "OM and I talked, what if we both ruined our M and then we didn't really work out? I have to try, he always knows exactly what I'm feeling." For a while I felt like I must be a terrible and incompetent man that my W could establish a "real relationship" until I had females tell me "G don't be stupid, no man alive is that magic. That is fantasy." Oh! Right! Reason returned.
Originally Posted by Starsky309
Stages of Remorse:
I do think your wife is in one of the early stages of remorse, but there are several stages. They'll go from "I'm sorry I got caught," to "I'm sorry for ME that I've messed myself up so much," to "I'm sorry for YOU that I hurt you (but I still don't see anything wrong with what I did)," to finally a more self-aware "I'm sorry for what I did because IT WAS THE WRONG THING TO DO, on so many levels. For me, for the pain I caused my husband, for the breaking of my vows, etc."
My W reached stage 2 last summer when OM didn't appear to be following through. "G, I know I'm responsible for the consequences of my own choices, BUT...." and then stage 3 of remorse late last fall sometime. "G, I'm sorry you got hurt in all this. I don't know what more you want from me." I haven't seen any further mental work. This doesn't mean it is or is not happening. She has always been very introspective.
And I've gone dark. At first to let her experience what she claimed to want. Then I realized later it was also for me, my peace, my recovery, and to be able to detach.
