“Dad, mom is still treating me like I'm 10 or 12 and telling me what to do and feel.” Is this is connected to the MLC part of XW's crisis?
Yes this is a common trait of the MLCer. The crisis drags them back to their time of their trauma; from whence they need to grow up from. This is, for most, their teenager and/or childhood years. Thus they behave, treat, and interact with the world - people, finances, life insurance, risk, relationships, employment, how they dress, how they speak, and so on - in a childlike manner. It is interesting, and wildly weird, to see a woman of 50 behaving like a 13 year old.
One’s emotional state (mental state) does come through in their interactions. Most adults have grown up and put away childhood things. For one consumed by torment and emotional time travel, they display childlike behaviour. Your daughters do see this and are rather spot on with what Mom is doing. You could give them an explanation for ‘why’ Mom behaves thusly. However, the truly deeply hidden cause/why of Mom’s behaviour - the hidden trauma(s) - remains unknown. For only XW can discover that herself.
Another facet of Mom’s treatment towards daughters is that’s how she see them. It is one part, children see the world through children eyes. So, a teenage-like XW is going to see the world likewise. It is second part, that XW/Mom has stalled.
That time travel stuff again. The MLCer, while consumed and embroiled in replay, is pretty much asleep in the present. There are moments when they peek out of replay, peek out of the tunnel, and display moments of awakening. Like the character Rip Van Winkle, they awaken to find the world has moved on without them. Most often they dive back into replay facing such disorientation, which of course exacerbates things further.
The fortunate ones do, bit by bit, peek by peek, slowly - glacially slowly - make their journey. With a good and correct amount of fate, luck, God, the universe, whatever - the fortunate exit the tunnel. Face their depression, work through withdrawal, and hopefully find acceptance. All on their own time.
For me it is 8+ years post bomb drop. Remember a crisis usually silently starts around 18-24 months before BD. My XW is now around a decade ‘asleep’. So many events missed in our kids’ lives. A fact which was noticeable during my son’s wedding. XW has been missing for quite a while.
Post wedding, and the (forced) peek or two she had, she has run back into the tunnel. Quit her grass mowing jobs. Missed the kid’s birthdays. And hidden away, again. Poor gal. She is quite a lost soul. I suspect Christmas isn’t going to do her any favours.
Originally Posted by grok
Though no longer dragged by it all ... like others experienced, the holidays, the ex-in-laws, ... my chest tightens and eyes fill. I sometimes feel like I'm on the outside looking in.
I know what you say. At times, I still miss what could have been. Long for it. And then let it go. And embrace what I do have. Which is actually a lot.
I didn’t deal the cards, I just play the cards I’ve been dealt.
“Outside looking in.”
Some advice.
Go inside.
Don’t stand out in the cold. Go inside.
For example. The in-laws. And from what you say, you are looking/willing to keep this relationship alive and active. So, get ahead of things. Do not wait to react to late invites and such. Invite them to your house. First. Not reacting. Acting.
Make plans and invite Grandparents for Christmas. Take the lead.
Believe me, they are feeling disappointed, unsure, etc. And will be happy to have an invite.
I’ve found people are quite happy to join in to activities. They mostly need someone to just make the decision.
(People also have a reluctance to get involved because of our grief. A common reaction, and most unhelpful. When you ever get the opportunity with a person in grief, go against this incorrect default feeling and speak with them.)
Leading and deciding also helps you.
It may be a strange feeling to be somewhat the ‘center of attention’. Yet go with it. You’re not stealing the spotlight or anything, just being the host. The man of the house.
Decide, choose, and act to be inside.
Be the life of your home. (I know, it takes effort to let go that wife/Mom was usually in that role. Let go, and take the reins.)
Shine.
Trust me, people will and do gather to such a light.
Am I missing something here grok? Does XW''s parents have a history of this? Even the way it's worded - there seems to be a lot of emotional weight here. It 'feels' like a very big deal...
No, not … exactly. I’ll say up front they are good-hearted people. So, any thoughts on them are in that context. There is history with Grandma (I’ll leave the naming to keep people clear), though not so much directly with the children.
Grandma doesn’t like to make decisions and often uses indirect guilt trips to push things her way. When I met XW (in her late 20s), she was badly co-dependent on Grandma. Even for daily/weekly decisions. Though she was trying to break away and run her own life. Grandma, apparently, had used XW (since her teen years) as her emotional sponge and validation for complaints about Grandpa. During this crisis, I learned that from XW’s perspective, Grandma had strayed from Grandpa in the early years and he hadn’t let her forget it since. From XW's perspective, they have passive aggressive emotional sniping ongoing in the background.
The above troubled relational dynamics and associated coping mechanisms spill over. If I had to guess, I’d say Grandma isn't even aware of her own passive aggressive emotional manipulation. She likely wouldn't be aware of how it would be perceived by D18. For her part, D18 perceives this, and reacts with the tools, words, and capabilities of the 18-year-old young woman she is. Sometimes very self-aware. Sometimes falls apart.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
...which leads me to this question? Are your children in therapy? Obviously D18 is an new adult.. but an adult nevertheless. Her emotions are valid... but how she is handling those emotions is very childlike. How do you plan on helping her transition handling those as an adult? How do you teach her to advocate for herself whilst validating her feelings?
No, not in therapy. Though I agree, it is a good idea at some point. To D18's credit, she normally recognizes her own reactions. She usually asks for space to reset herself. It's usually pretty rapid from emotional reactions to self-control. I try -
To stick to being unflappable whatever her emotions spill out. A solid foundation in their lives. To not take any of it personally. It is from her internal reality. To name it, "that is sad" or "that is angering." Understanding and empathy. To identify potential reactions or actions she could choose and on what basis she might pick them based on what she might consider important to herself. So that she looks at what she considers important and chooses actions/reactions based on them.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
We learn to live with them. Sometimes... there is no lesson. Having an unavailable parent is not easy to deal with. There is lots of reparenting yourself that has to be done.
I had an interesting conversation with a co-worker last week along those lines. People were discussing plans for the holiday weekend and when my plans were... non-standard... I gave him the short explanation of my household status. He identified... because his father left when he and sisters were young. One sister reacted by never making him part of her life again. He and the other sister were always excited to see him. For he was unavailable ... but he was a bringer of fun things and treats. AND he sees now, how his mom was left holding the bag... the one who sacrificed and made a home and life for him and sisters. Unprompted, his story validated the advice given here.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
I think you do a great job at allowing your children to have feelings around the issue. I think you do a really good job pulling back to see a bigger picture (kids continuing a relationship with the grandparents).
AND I can see it there are still little things that sting. And that's okay.
NGL, a little praise feels good. *laughs*
I try to keep in mind complaints D20 and D18 made individually to me. "Dad, mom is still treating me like I'm 10 or 12 and telling me what to do and feel." Is this is connected to the MLC part of XW's crisis? Don't know. Don't need to know. I try to be a guide and safety net for these young adults.
Originally Posted by Valeska19
In regards to the XW's parents - perhaps try to understand they are on a journey too. I'm sure it's not easy for them to watch XW's behavior and probably don't have the best tools to handle it. Are you really angry at them? Or are you just upset about the situation?
I'm not actually angry or upset at them. Sometimes I am disappointed. Sometimes I am unsure. Often unhappy that we have to navigate this at all.
From the beginning of this episode, my mental model for thinking on them was a question. Twenty years from now, how would I react or deal with D20 or D18 making the choices XW has?
So... maybe they too feel disappointed, unsure, often unhappy that we have to navigate this at all.
Grandma and Grandpa stopped by to pick up the young ones the other day. They were taking them and XW to a Medieval Times show and dinner. The last one out the door, Grandma stops and turns briefly, "Oh, ... I wish you were coming too... *short worried sigh*" and then hustled out to their car.
Though no longer dragged by it all ... like others experienced, the holidays, the ex-in-laws, ... my chest tightens and eyes fill. I sometimes feel like I'm on the outside looking in.
g
Outside In - Circle of Dust
It's hard for me to face that so much time has passed And all the things that went away were those I thought would last It’s hard to look into the mirror dark within And not embracing the reflection there may be my greatest sin ... Standing here with empty hands to fill my heart And thinking I am winning in a race I didn't start ... Sometimes I feel I'm on the outside looking in It's like I'm watching someone else living in my skin Hope has stained my heart in vain, I'm drowning in my sin Sometimes I feel I'm on the outside looking in Outside looking in
[Outro] Father, have mercy on your son And always bring me home again however far I've run Father, grant wisdom for within So I no longer have to be on the outside looking in
You may not get responses…but they do roll around in minds and hearts.
Perfectly fine. And thank you for the kind words.
Originally Posted by grok
I’m not fixing it. I don’t feel an urge to.
Just sad this is where her choices lead to.
Good for you not getting involved in her life insurance boondoggle.
Originally Posted by grok
I didn’t reply, thinking to reply after 24hrs
Aldo good to utilize 24 hours to consider what response to provide. As things turned out, none was required as XW decided to deal with the “monkey on everyone’s back”. (Not much of a monkey IMHO. Life has far bigger problems.)
I don’t believe you’ve been testy regarding reimbursement. Though in XW’s narrative and mind reading she ‘needs’ to see it such.
Yes, it is sad to see such confusion and consequences. Yet, as you stated, her choices are leading her to that.
Gosh, it’s December 1st. Have you started any decorating yet? Setting up the tree? I think I’m going to set up my tree, if not today, tomorrow. (Oh wait, day after tomorrow, I’ve got a dentist appointment tomorrow.)
