Clicking on a user's name on the left side of a post DOES NOT lead to their profile. Clicking on their name on a "like" at the bottom of a post DOES lead to their profile.
A suggestion: on the left side of a post where it lists Joined Date, Posts Count, and Likes Count... Link the posts count to the list of all posts by that user and the like count to the list of all likes by that user. These linked lists are available on the user profile page but it would simplify the user experience to be able to do so right from a post by that user.
Well…what an end to the weekend. I see I still have work to do to accept that which I cannot change. To not stress about it. To vent a little here about my stress and my sadness.
Mostly it was a good weekend though. I sent off S13 and D18 with XW on a road trip she, Grandma, and Grandpa had planned. They were heading north through Georgia, Tennessee and on for a week. XW in her van and grandparents in their RV. D20 did not go. I did not ask.
“They” do it to me - I
I got many things done too. 27 Gal bins were filled with D18’s debris she had ejected from her bedroom a while back. Ikea shelving/storage units from her previous setup were put in the garage. (In theory for XW… though she has said many times she is going to take them … and no follow though. XW messaged a few weeks back, ”I’ll probably need you or D20 to help make the arrangements. I get ignored or sabotaged when I try”).
home ownership burdens - I
Tonight after doing the weekly grocery shopping together, D20 and I started on moving bookcases around to their new planned configuration… when…. Behind one that I had planned to leave in place I found a mold spot on the wall about 2 ft X 3 ft in size. $#%^#$%^$. A small spot on the floor in front seemed damp to me and smelled musty.
With the help of one of D20’s friends we inspected outside and then took a sheetrock knife to cut out the molded section. Huh. No moisture signs in the sheetrock. Only on the paint and surface. The next step will be pull off the baseboard and pull up the carpet to inspect. Ugh. I just see hours work and $$$ signs in front of my eyes.
“They” do it to me - II
With that, I called it for the night. A bowl of ice cream each (A scoop of cherry and a scoop of salted caramel pretzel. Hey, it was a BOGO sale today!) and then D20 and I off to walk the dogs. My phone rings half way thought the walk with D18 calling. I answer thinking nothing of it.
D18, ”Dad! Dad! Is D20 there? I HAVE TO TALK TO HER. SHE WASNT ANSWERING HER PHONE.”
G, ”Yes, she’s right here. We’re walking the dogs right now. I’ll put you on speaker.”
D18 crying, ”NO. I have to talk to HER.”
I hand the phone to D20 and take both dogs. I could hear D18 in tears and stress. Judging by her request for D20, this was not something for me to jump into protective DAD mode. I walked ahead … trusting in D20’s judgement. It sounded like they were discussing XW. Bits and pieces I heard:
She’s a grown woman and can make her own choices You don’t control any of that You can’t do anything about what she does Just let her do it Do you need me to come get you? (700 miles) Go ride with Grandma and Grandpa instead I have a relationship with her… It’s just not close
That last one… hurt to hear.
After we got home she did put the phone on speaker. With S13 on the other end also. They told us about their exciting day hiking and going in a cave with an underground waterfall. Our advice was - Go hang out with Grandpa when it is stressful. You don’t have to explain it all. Just tell him you need time away and want his company for a while. “
Later D20 volunteered: Mom’s van door broke. She said it was “them” who sabotaged it She got upset when D18 didn’t believe her She said she might leave them with Grandma and Grandpa and drive back home She stormed off …
home ownership burdens - II
And then I noticed the overflow pan under at the air conditioning was filling up with water. SIGH. The drain pipe is clogged again. I used the wet vac to clear the existing water. The vinegar poured down the drain pipe to help clear any growths. This may take several days of attention to clear. My fault for not cleaning it earlier on schedule. I’m tired. Of constant fixes needed. And just tired.
g
LEMONADE - Forrest Frank & The Figs
Devil thought he really got us I guess he just forgot that God works everything for better No matter what the weather He knits it all together Cozier than a sweater ……… Lemonade I watch my worries wash a-way, lemonade It's gonna be okay Life gave me some lemons But my Jesus, He be makin' lemonade
(The track was created during Forrest Frank's recovery from a serious skateboarding injury resulting in multiple back fractures, where he channeled his emotions into music from his hospital bed. … finding hope and faith in challenging times.)
DnJ thanks for the reminder that mars and venus are different. Somehow, I lose sight of this. You and Grok kindly remind me. Something I need to really learn rather than passively hear and forget.
Like everything else in this new version of you...it takes time and effort to embed into your thoughts, behaviors, habits... The same for me. You hit it right though. That is what I see in what you wrote about S. Those Mars/Venus books I find very good at putting deeper concepts into everyman/woman accessible language. So, some modified cut/paste of the concepts I think apply to what you see from S.
A young man where ... On Mars, competence and personal ability are highly valued, so they are driven towards success and accomplishment.
On solving problems - on their own gives men a feeling of confidence, strength, and self-esteem, so they resist asking for help as a sign of weakness. She may ask lots of questions about what is wrong or what is bothering him. That is exactly how she would want to be supported. However, Martians feel she doesn’t trust him to solve the problem himself. On the flip side, if he asks for help or your take this means he respects, trusts and treasures your involvement. High Praise! (even if he doesn't take the advice in the end)
On distance -
Men may become distant thinking about a problem or say “I’m fine” when clearly not. That disconnect doesn’t mean they don’t care or love her, but they want to solve the problem on their own, rather than burden others with it.
Men Are Like Rubber Bands: men periodically need to withdraw to renew themselves. This natural cycle should be respected to maintain balance in relationships. Men require periodic withdrawal to recharge.
When faced with stress or challenges, men and women have different coping mechanisms. Men tend to withdraw into their “cave,” a metaphorical space where they can process their feelings and thoughts.
Men often offer solutions when women simply want to be heard, while women may offer unsolicited advice when men need space to solve problems on their own
Addendum. For women: Learn to ask directly for what you need or clarify instead of hinting. Annoying and crude as it may seem to Venus, that is saying it in HIS language.
Also, Congrats on a spot bonus! Keep on and Shine like the sun.
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Shine - Stick Figure
Time stands still, but the clock keeps spinning I close my eyes and get lost for a minute The words and the tears, they have long dried up I think I thought that I'd had enough Shine on like the sun Holding on to a feeling Shine on everyone Find love to believe in
I am writing to announce that the online Forum will have a facelift! That's because I am launching a new website in the next day or two. If you want a copy of your most recent posts, make sure you copy them because the migration to the new website might lose some recent posts.
I am very excited about the new website, as well as the updated edition of my book, Healing from Infidelity. Plus, for all the people requesting an audiobook version, guess what!!! I created an audiobook as well.
I found your old thread which is at the 100 post limit. Please make a new thread and I’ll link them together (if you want). Also a new thread will give folks a place to read and respond directly to you.
My WAW been back for a year, now. Our older daughters and my youngest at 15 have benefitted but they hate if we argue. Our sex life has not been so great. Personally, that hits me emotionally very hard. She gives me sex just as a 'duty' or to do something nice for me. She had screwed up and told me she gave the OP lots of sex because she was worried about him going out and fng someone else. I also had pestered her for the truth and she said "yes, it was exciting. And enjoyable but then felt really bad and realized it was such a horrific damage to myself and my family." So, it's now hurting ME extra deeply all over again. She doesn't even TRY to enjoy our sex or get an orgasm. Makes me feel like sht. She promised to work so much harder on that and put more honest effort into it. She had said that a year ago also and I pointed out and she admits she didn't follow through. Oh, also while we were separated, she got pregnant by the mf OP she was with. She had miscarriage fairly early and back then I had been very crying and sympathetic with her (still apart then) Now, I just have this agonizing pain over and over and almost constantly about her having sex w someone else. AND GETTING IMPREGNATED BY HIS SORRY A$$. He was married as well. It just hurts so much and I've been praying and praying but I don't feel relief and I feel like I can't stand the pain period and don't know if ever can get past it. We've been married 15 years. Back together now but shoot, 2 other times in the past she ran off too. I could really use some advice and ideas about the getting through this constant agony.
My WAW been back for a year, now. Our older daughters and my youngest at 15 have benefitted but they hate if we argue. Our sex life has not been so great. Personally, that hits me emotionally very hard. She gives me sex just as a 'duty' or to do something nice for me. She had screwed up and told me she gave the OP lots of sex because she was worried about him going out and fng someone else. I also had pestered her for the truth and she said "yes, it was exciting. And enjoyable but then felt really bad and realized it was such a horrific damage to myself and my family." So, it's now hurting ME extra deeply all over again. She doesn't even TRY to enjoy our sex or get an orgasm. Makes me feel like sht. She promised to work so much harder on that and put more honest effort into it. She had said that a year ago also and I pointed out and she admits she didn't follow through. Oh, also while we were separated, she got pregnant by the mf OP she was with. She had miscarriage fairly early and back then I had been very crying and sympathetic with her (still apart then) Now, I just have this agonizing pain over and over and almost constantly about her having sex w someone else. AND GETTING IMPREGNATED BY HIS SORRY A$$. He was married as well. It just hurts so much and I've been praying and praying but I don't feel relief and I feel like I can't stand the pain period and don't know if ever can get past it. We've been married 15 years. Back together now but shoot, 2 other times in the past she ran off too. I could really use some advice and ideas about the getting through this constant agony.
No biking lately. Not since I hurt my finger. I know my finger doesn’t really have anything to do with Biking but I so worried that if I would fall I would mess it up. So still lifting, and my lifting buddy is 100% behind me so that helps. Walking the dog when it’s not too hot. Halfway done with my online history class and going to start taking piano again when my finger is ready. Lots of GALing this weekend. Grad party that H will probably go with me too and a fundraiser that I will to by myself if I have to..lots of friends there. Reading a book about self care. Doing at least three things that bring me joy everyday. And knowing they bring me joy brings me even more. Funny how that works. Thanks for reminding of the good things!
reality has hit me like a ton of bricks. I find myself wanting to apologize but I know that’s not right. I want to scream, ... I’m on the clock again. Is he looking at apartments again? When does he plan on telling the kids? Right before d(19) leaves for school and d(17) starts her Senior year? ... Just need to vent.
As much as you need. Whenever you want to. Here.
I've felt every one of those things. I get it.
And you know what? Sometimes I still have reality hit me like a ton of bricks sometimes. Almost a year since XW finalized the D. Why? Well, been thinking of that for a post in my thread - the impact of going from trust -> receiving dishonesty, disrespect, disloyalty...
and the world keeps turning ... paying me and my occasional desolation no mind.
So I tell my story here to vent. To let it out. And to tell my joys in order to reinforce them Where others get it. And to get advice and perspective from those like job who have gone through the fire before -
Originally Posted by job
The only thing you can do is go somewhere and scream as loud as you can. Take a walk, do something that is really physical that requires your strength and full attention, find a pillow and beat the living daylights out of it.
G's sister - brother, I used to go for walks in the forest and whack trees with a big stick. As hard as I could. and then my hands hurt.
So, on those good things that YOU control ... any biking lately? tell us a good biking story! It's part of your GAL right?
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Related music feels... hmmmm... something that goes harder for those rage/scream/desolation feelings... I can't decide between:
All the Good - Filter
Rise and shine IMO take back what’s mine from you cuz
All the good in us gets assassinated All the good in us gets killed no hesitation
Or "mellower"
A Little Bit Off - Five Finger Death Punch
I'm a little bit off today, somethin' down inside me's different Woke up a little off today, I can tell that somethin's wrong I'm a little thrown off today, there's something going on inside me I'm a little bit off today, a little bit off today [Outro] I'm a little bit off today Somethin' down inside me feels so different Just a little bit off today You can all f*** off today
It is wonderful to see W (and you) continuing to invest and commit to your new relationship. It sounds like the monthly tune-ups are solidifying and fostering a healthy partnership and healthy strategies for those inevitable disagreements that pop up.
I’d like to submit your story to the Another Divorce Busted! forum. If you’re interested please post a summary of your situation and I’ll get it published.
I'll hold space. Give time. DnJ thanks for the reminder that mars and venus are different. Somehow, I lose sight of this. You and Grok kindly remind me. Something I need to really learn rather than passively hear and forget. If from your seat, I'm projecting my struggling, I have some relief. I'd prefer to reshape my thoughts and beliefs than to know they're struggling. Time. I'll watch this one and play it out.
Sent S a couple of videos and pictures from this weekend's bday party we attended. And also thanked him for making the trip. Coming home for a family party is an entire day's event - between traveling and the celebration, it is a time absorber. I really do appreciate him showing up despite the distance. And, I'm thinking through the idea of a letter. Perhaps I start with a funny Hallmark card with a couple words. After all, everyone likes mail (that isn't a bill).
As for D, I'll listen and not fight her need to drop it. I can appreciate the value of saying it out loud.
In the end, S and D are great kids...adults. If I must say so myself, I've done well. These aren't the cards I'd want for them, but it's the hand we've been dealt and so we'll play them.
H's uncle called over the weekend to let me know that FIL had a stroke. He reminded me that I'm family and that he'll keep me updated. FIL is coming to a rehab center close to H and SIL. And, as lucky as I am, they chose the rehab place that the AP works at. That'll be a fun visit. Not sure I'll keep all my thoughts to myself should we happen to run into each other. "Thy will be done."
Uncle: Can't believe I'm the only one taking interest in his arrangements. If it weren't for me, he wouldn't get into any rehab. M:Oh goodness, glad you're helping him. Uncle: H and SIL (H's sis) spent 3 hours the hospital the first day and haven't returned to see their own father. M:That's odd. Uncle: SIL is going there today. H is going to XX. M: Oh, sounds like he's headed to his girlfriend's family lake house. (WOAH, did I just tell his family? Man, that wasn't planned. Sounds like I'm done carrying that weight. It really just came out.) Uncle: Oh, I don't know about anything like that. M: Well that's good that SIL will be there today. (Gave it no more life.)
Uncle sounded like a hero. MLC of his own? Who knows?
Uncle: Well, I will keep you informed. You are family and we love you very much. M: Thank you for calling me and I love you too.
Meanwhile, work is busier than ever. Keeps me on my toes. Earned myself a spot bonus and was thrilled with the surprise. I laughed with D that it was spent before it was paid out. The irrigation system is breaking the bank. I need to find myself a new company. And, I'm getting the patio sealed because it's been a few years.
It's been 6 weeks since nephew's grad party where dad wasn't acknowledged by me or kids. Also, 6 weeks since Father's Day that wasn't celebrated. We keep on living a life we didn't sign up for. Learning our way.
Thank you Job. You always have a way of putting things in perspective for me. Thank you for talking me down off my ledge. I WILL carry on. I CAN do this.
If you think all of this is driving you crazy, just think what is going on in his brain. You are the sane one at the moment and his emotions and the wiring in his brain is misfiring all over the place. He's not going to talk to you about the situation unless you push him and then he'll start up that nonsense of leaving home and finding an apartment. As long as he feels comfortable at home and is not pressured to shape up and get it together, he will stay. I've seen a lot of them like this and it about drives the spouse/partner absolutely nuts. The only thing you can do is go somewhere and scream as loud as you can. Take a walk, do something that is really physical that requires your strength and full attention, find a pillow and beat the living daylights out of it.
I honestly don't think he even knows what he wants to do at this point, but I can assure you, if you push for answers, he will threaten to leave again.
I know this is driving you nuts. I went through this for about 18 months and when I finally opened the door and told him that he could leave, he sat on the couch and cried and admitted he didn't know what he wanted to do...but three weeks later he left and never returned.
If you really and truly want him to leave, start pushing. If you don't want him to leave, you will need to find a way to channel your frustration into something else.
Back from vacation, which was great, and reality has hit me like a ton of bricks. I find myself wanting to apologize but I know that’s not right. I want to scream, why won’t you talk to me about this. No R talk since May. He doesn’t bring it up and just pretends nothing is wrong. Summer is almost over and I feel like I’m on the clock again. Is he looking at apartments again? When does he plan on telling the kids? Right before d(19) leaves for school and d(17) starts her Senior year? What if summer goes by and he doesn’t say anything. He’s talking about things going on in September like it’ll be the same! It’s driving me crazy. Sorry i know I can’t control what he does and I need to stay in my lane. Just need to vent.
Sorry to hear the kids’ Grandpa had a stroke. A cold emotionless text from Dad is a sad way to convey such news to the kids.
It sounds like your kids handled themselves just fine. Yes, they were surprised that Dad was at the hospital this time, yet figured their way through the interaction with some guidance from you.
They see what’s going on: Dad’s behaviour - black toenail polish (wow!); his utilizing the only chair without sharing; his lack of interest in them and anything really; and so on.
Originally Posted by MamaG
What else can I say to them? Should I give advice? I don't know what to ever say or not say. They continue to struggle. They're hurting so much.
MG, I think your kids are doing well. True, they likely hurt in the moment when visiting with Dad there, and later - feelings flitted away. Be careful not to project your struggling and feelings onto the kids. I did that and had to realize, and effort to see how my kids were actually feeling and coping.
Your kids noticed and told you of Dad’s new behaviours, even laughed about it all. Seeing the humour in this is not in meanness, just a way of rationalizing and coping. If one didn’t laughed they’d cry.
Take heart, in my viewpoint, your kids are not struggling. Well, not with a capital S, small s struggling. Normal, figuring it out kind of stuff. After all, it is a pretty bizzaro world that dear old Dad is presently living in.
What advice, what else you can say to your kids? Validate their feelings and listen to their interpretations of Dad’s behaviours and interactions, or lack thereof. Continue to rationalize the factual details and events. Gently steering as required. Feelings and facts. Discuss feelings, and lead or make decisions based on facts.
- - - -
Originally Posted by MamaG
[D] isn't at peace but has accepted that dad is absent and is acting cowardly. She is also the one who has done more sharing of her feelings over the last 2 years. S is struggling and I find out tonight from D just how much he's struggling.
Careful with Struggling diagnosis. Son is walking his journey to acceptance.
Girls/women in general, share their feelings more than boys/men do. Daughter has done so with you over the past two year and is more open with the situation than son. Through her lens, she feels brother is struggling since he doesn’t share as freely. Perhaps brother is just a different path, and not stuck.
Originally Posted by MamaG
S wants to talk to H. He wants to hear it from his dad. He wants confirmation that he strayed. D told S that dad will lie and won't confess. Wise. S agreed and is still feeling the need to talk to dad.
To me, this is the crux of son’s present journey. He is not struck, nor unhealthily struggling, he is coming to terms with confronting Dad. Look, as a son seeing your Father, your hero, the man you inspired to be fall from grace, fall from the pedestal; that’s a lot to accept.
Guys and gals handle problems and stresses differently. Most times guys face problems head on, or deny them. Son is coming around to facing this head on.
Son is getting, growing, to the point when he can risk losing Dad. At first kids cannot risk losing their parent and project and lash out at the strong stable parent. Eventual they find their way and will turn their feelings towards the appropriate warranted target.
Originally Posted by MamaG
S also told D that he's not talking to me as much because I remind him of dad and he doesn't want to think about dad. Hmmm. Certainly I had noticed that S calls fewer times. S told her, I know I'm being avoidant and I don't want to be. I know it's unhealthy, but it's hard to talk with mom now.
Ok - this is good. S has awareness. Admitting to the problem is step 1.
Be patient. Son is shifting.
Originally Posted by MamaG
What are your suggestions? S may never tell me he's struggling. What can I do? I can't let him know that D told me. Yet, I want to help him open up. You know I've been struggling here and I'm still here. I know I can't make S speak. Do I apply the same DB skills? Give space? Let him come to me? Listen when/if he does.
And, any idea why he's struggling to talk to me?
Keep being strong stable you. Son will come around.
In effort to help him open up. You should reframe that. The way you say/see it, you are making it a problem. And son will live up to whatever expectations you set.
Instead, effort to foster better communication. I suspect you are trying/expecting to talk with son. Directly. Face to face. Or with a phone call. How about text? Or better, a letter? Yes, the paper kind, not email. Something tangible. Hand written. Personable. The power of the written word is interesting. It unconsciously illustrates and promotes care, worth, investment in the recipient. After all, you had to invest time to do it.
A different approach. A different communication may reach son differently. He may feel more comfortable in replying and thus speaking to with you. (Yes, strive for speaking with and not to each other.)
A letter, the written word, is not usually recommended for communication with our wayward spouse. The permanence of it, its charm, and such work against our DB efforts. However, these are the very characteristics you are utilizing to reach son, as son’s situation is not H’s. Other efforts like giving space and time for son to come around are similar. (Just wanted to make clear how DBing skills and tactics are not uniformly transferable.)
As for what to actually write. Or how. I’d likely start with text. Kids nowadays talk by text. Short bits of content and duration. Open up a line of communication (not a questionnaire lol). Funny pictures or memes break the ice pretty well.
Later, a letter showing how proud you are of son and his life. Acknowledging what he, and all of you, have had to face and overcome accept. Letting him clearly know that you are there for him, whenever he needs to talk or just wants to shoot the sh__.
You may not get a speedy response, or any response. But it will be heard, and that will likely be enough. After all, we are their parent, not their best friend. Trust son. He is, and will, talk to daughter. And he will come around.
Originally Posted by MamaG
D shares her own feelings and then asks to change the subject. Doesn't want to talk about it for long. Her approach is to say it out loud and drop it. I'm thinking I need to be a better listener....
You know her approach, go with it. Saying something aloud makes it real. Very powerful stuff, speaking aloud. Never discount it.
And never discount the power of just being there to listen. Speaking aloud requires a listener, a witness. A most important role.
Originally Posted by MamaG
And so the dance continues. Half conversations. Again, do I say too much? Is it me? Is it how she processes?
His fairies and unicorns are hurting my cubs and I feel helpless.
You only feel helpless. You are not actually helpless.
Dad’s fairies and unicorns do not have the power to hurt or control you or your kids’ emotions/feelings. They just don’t. They may trigger something. And you guys let it go.
Quick update since it has been a while. I'm listening to D15 and W laugh from D's room. We seem to be putting one happy day after another together again. My bday and father's day cards from W are signed with "love" again. Both of us are putting in the work to rebuild a more secure-functioning relationship. We get a tune-up with our MC at least once per month and MC also reminds us about our progress. There are moments where flashes of the old relationship emerge, usually out of anger or stress. However, we both seem more interested in not letting things escalate, practicing better self-management, and applying new behaviors to work together to solve things.
I'm not posting to brag. I am posting to give others hope. Hope that if you do put in the effort, follow through on what MWD writes, listen to others in this community, etc. you can come back from some pretty hopeless situations if that is truly best for YOU.
Hey, Dave. I'm glad you found your way here, and as you have likely seen, the community is a wonderful resource. Sometimes it can be tough to hear the feedback, and my experience is that good intent and/or experience underlies all of it. Though I've not seen him active lately, there is a board member named Ready2Change who would often chime in on posts like yours. In his absence, I'm going to channel a little R2C in saying that I can't imagine your W is finding much of your behavior very attractive. To me, it is coming across as very needy, awaiting her every move or response, and orbiting around her rather than truly focusing on healing yourself in ways not dependent upon her presence. 180s are tough; you are 100% right about the discomfort they cause us, and when I was where you are, it took a leap of faith. Members like Boat and Kind18 were thankfully candid with me, and I got to a point where nothing else was working, so what did I have to lose by listening to them?
DNJ and Job offered "gentler" feedback that remains highly valuable. And, if you've read many posts here, you may have seen something along the lines of "you didn't break your spouse; you can't fix them." As DNJ says, she has to burn through all she's amassed. Like any fire, the closer you get, the less oxygen YOU have to breathe for yourself. Let go of trying to be there for her all the time. Let her see what it is like when she doesn't have you easily accessible as a safety net to bail her out or offer comfort at her whim. Are you taking the best care of yourself that you could be? What else makes you happy that doesn't depend on her? If this doesn't work out, what else have you built to support yourself for the short- to mid-term? If you have an EAP at work or perhaps a personal therapist, take advantage of that benefit to get some more personalized guidance.
We all want to see you happy and thriving, irrespective of whether W will remain a part of your life.
Thank you! I feel like God is as blessing me today. I always go out paddle boarding first thing in the morning and I saw a family of four deer and so many other animals. Then later we saw an eagle swoop down and catch a fish. God is good. I hope tomorrow ends okay. Lots of hidden tears today.
I am grateful for insight from my virtual friends on this site. Somehow you validate me, remind me of what's important and give direction. And here I am for more.
Yesterday, H text the kids - first outreach from him since Pii day in March. H sent a very cold and unemotional text to inform the kids that his father (my FIL) was in the hospital because he had a stroke. While the kids didn't respond to him via text, they jumped in the car and straight to the hospital they went. I then get a call from them.
Kids: Mom, dad is here. He didn't visit papa last time at the hospital so we were hoping he wouldn't be here. His truck is here. What do we do? M: Ok. So now you know. Have you thought about what you'll do? say? Kids: We've been thinking about that for the last couple hours but we didn't think he'd be here.
We ran through some options and then I suggested they sit in the car for a few minutes until they knew what would make them comfortable.
M: You don't have to greet him. You can greet him. You can nod. Or you can just be there for papa. Hold papa's hand. Comfort papa. Love on him. That's why you're there - for papa. Kids: Ya, we'll sit and think it through before going in.
Three hours later, with so much relief, they called on their way out.
Kids: You're never going to believe what dad's new thing is now. M: What do you mean? Kids: Tattoos, piercings, Duck Dynasty...and guess what now? M: He's polishing his toe nails. In black polish! Kids: Ok. Sounds like he's still looking for himself. Hope he enjoyed his first pedicure.
We laughed. Then they told me that they didn't talk to dad nor make any eye contact with him. They sounded proud. I just uttered, "OK, sounds like you had a nice visit with papa though." They confirmed.
Kids: Mom, dad is so selfish. He sat in a chair the whole time while we stood for hours. He never asked anything about us. He just doesn't have any interest in us at all. M: You know dad is in crisis. He's only thinking of himself right now. Dad loves you both very much but he doesn't know how to get through the shame and guilt. D: He doesn't even know I moved. He learned today though. M: He knew you moved. He can track your phone and I'm pretty sure he does. Men in crisis are very curious about their lives. D: I guess. Well, he learned a bit more about us and he didn't seem to care that he's missing out.
What else can I say to them? Should I give advice? I don't know what to ever say or not say. They continue to struggle. They're hurting so much.
________________________________
Over the last month, my kids have been processing the news. D was home more than usual with all the moving in and out so we were able to connect more. We periodically talked about H, as we always had. She isn't at peace but has accepted that dad is absent and is acting cowardly. She is also the one who has done more sharing of her feelings over the last 2 years. S is struggling and I find out tonight from D just how much he's struggling. Thankfully, he is open enough to talk with his sister. Love that for them.
S wants to talk to H. He wants to hear it from his dad. He wants confirmation that he strayed. D told S that dad will lie and won't confess. Wise. S agreed and is still feeling the need to talk to dad.
S also told D that he's not talking to me as much because I remind him of dad and he doesn't want to think about dad. Hmmm. Certainly I had noticed that S calls fewer times. S told her, I know I'm being avoidant and I don't want to be. I know it's unhealthy, but it's hard to talk with mom now.
Ok - this is good. S has awareness. Admitting to the problem is step 1.
What are your suggestions? S may never tell me he's struggling. What can I do? I can't let him know that D told me. Yet, I want to help him open up. You know I've been struggling here and I'm still here. I know I can't make S speak. Do I apply the same DB skills? Give space? Let him come to me? Listen when/if he does.
And, any idea why he's struggling to talk to me?
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D shares her own feelings and then asks to change the subject. Doesn't want to talk about it for long. Her approach is to say it out loud and drop it. I'm thinking I need to be a better listener....
D: Dad isn't dad. He doesn't show up like a dad. He's just not who I remember. Me: What do you mean? D: He's just not interested in us. Not curious about anything. Asks us no questions. Me: He's selfish right now. Remember? D: I know. It's just that I've moved and he didn't care to ask any questions. Auntie was asking and he was just listening intently. Me: Dad knows you moved. D: Well, ... I don't want to talk about it anymore.
And so the dance continues. Half conversations. Again, do I say too much? Is it me? Is it how she processes?
His fairies and unicorns are hurting my cubs and I feel helpless.
Treasure those memories for they will help you along the way. Your vacation sounds like it went well and everyone had a good time. I know that it has been difficult for you and crying is a way to heal and also you are crying for things that have been lost along the way. There is no way to know what the future may hold for you and your family...but I do know this...you are a very strong person to have gone on this trip and put on a good game face the entire time. That strength will see you through this ordeal.
Stay positive and enjoy each and every moment. Try to remember this, the past is gone, the future is not ours to predict, but the present is a gift, a gift of time and a gift to help us dig deeper within ourselves to do the things that we must do in order to live each and every day.
Stay strong, cry when you need to cry and then pick yourself up, dust yourself off and continue moving forward. You are right where you need to be at this time. Travel safely back home.
