How do you become more assertive/more dominant in conversation/etc?
Hello Luke!
I'm not sure I completely understand the motivation behind that question, but I'll take a stab. I don't know about your W, but in casual conversation, I appreciate a good listener as much as someone who speaks their mind in a assertive manner. It's not a quality to be ashamed of, everyone likes a good listener. Just being willing to listen to somebody and show interest makes a big impression on them. If you suffer from withdrawal, shyness, or apathy, then it's your self-esteem you need to address and not so much your communications skills.
The reason most of us are on this board is because at the core of our problems, there is a breakdown in communication with our partner. I would be the first to admit the need to improve in this area. Maybe if I had been more skillful in this area, my marriage wouldn't be on the brink. A good book I've read on interpersonal skills is Dale Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people. Read it if you get an opportunity. Good communication skills are beneficial in all aspects of our lives. It should be something all of us strive to improve on a continual basis.
"It is curious that physical courage should be so common in the world and moral courage so rare." -Mark Twain
The motivation was more to answer the question - "is she wrong in her thinking?". I am - I believe and have heard this - a good listener, patient, willing to let the other person speak, interested, etc. I read the Dale Carnegie book many years ago adn took it to heart - it is easy to listen, after all, moving the other person on with questions, signs of interest, etc. It is more somehow slotting into an ongoing conversation that eludes me, feeling outside the circle of talk, and not understanding how I can be respected and apparently liked professionally, but not do so well socially. Somehow it is making myself heard... assertion again ... that is not my nature, difficult...
Just saw my favorite cousin, shared a bottle of wine over italian food, wonderful guy who thinks carefully about how to get the most out of life - he spent a week, as a 16 year old, with the French army on Victoria Island on a survival training course, eating grubs, mushrooms, etc. and thought it was great -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Hi! You can always change any conversation - by switching the topic to any of your interests...cooking, bulbs, engineering that you can feel more assertive with...that way you are on any topic that allows you more expression...she'll notice.
Just walked in on W talking animatedly on her cell phone and smiling. As she as she heard me come in, she hung up. I was consumed with anger, but said nothing. So wonderful to be loved -
It now seems that the only solution is D. This has a number of benefits - she will be responsible for her own economy, so I can charge her for the house costs...I don't really want to pay for her costs, especially her cell phone, the link to OM, which ironically, I gave her. I would split our joint account into two and her costs are then her problem. D would be the first step, then splitting our stuff, selling the house, etc, later.
In anger –
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
Luke, I know how that feels,I've walked in on my W talking with OW a few times and experienced internal meltdown! My advice would be not act on emotion here. If you've had enough then do what you have to do BUT don't do it because of a phone call. Bottom line is OM makes her feel good, you don't. I'm in the same position, it hurts and it sucks! BUT make choices based on reason AND emotion, not just one. Breathe deep and keep us posted.
An interesting new twist has come up - but I'll start with the background first, which is that he kids have summer vacation. We had told my parents (in their 70s) we would visit them this summer, which they have wanted us to do for a while. W commented that she doesn't like being in their house as it is psychologically stifling, but that she did want to see Emily Dickinson's place in western Mass, and seemed generally interested in road trips in New England (my parents live near Boston).
Now my mom wants to spend 10 days with us in early June, so we would see her first, on this side of the Atlantic. My W doesn't really like my dad, so she now proposed that just the kids and I visit my folks instead. Of course, this would then be a perfect opportunity for her to be with OM, and in fact she called him the same day she made this proposal (the phone records the last 20 numbers called). It seems insulting to be a babysitter for the kids while W is with OM, doesn't it, though of course I do not know this for a fact.
There are various responses - not go to Boston with the kids, go someplace else that W likes, insist W come along to Boston, have my Dad visit here instead also, etc. What do you think I should do? I have problems accepting the 'let me shack up with Hunk here while you take the kids, thanks'.
More generally, W hasn't changed much. Still no touching at all. She got mad one day when I asked her where she was going just as I came in. I noticed that being nice makes her nicer, so I bring her tea in the morning again, turn the other cheek, again and again and again. So instead of not talking, not bringing her things, I swallow the pain and anger.
W recently said one of her favorite adjectives is 'wayward' and one of her favorite writers is D.H.Lawrence.
Still thinking that D may at least end this useless suffering on my part - I will not see another woman while we are married - and could let her reap what she has sown (which I let happen, admittedly).
Beautiful high pressure weather here, a Baltic thing, nearly 70, lovely lacy reflections on the wall from the sun sparkling off the water in the mornings -
Luke
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
A few more thoughts on taking the kids on a vacation to Boston while W would be with OM, these after yet another lousy sleeping night. What with my mom coming, I could make the same argument ("we'll see her over here and so don't need to go to Boston"), saving a bundle of money, which might then be used to go someplace cheaper that W also likes, hopefully preventing her from seeing OM. We are invited for a week to an island here, which with my 3 weeks of vacation is a significant chunk of time, in comparison with which Boston is an expensive luxury.
For the D, I turn 50 in early December (when I would finally like to have clarity, after more than three years of no physical contact or affection). There is a 6 month waiting period here, so I would need to file in early June. Should I give her notice a few weeks ahead? It seems like a fair warning is appropriate. The notice would be short, something like "Dear -, After seeing that things are not improving in our marriage, despite various efforts and patience on my part, I now agree with you that a D is a good idea and plan to file in about a month. Sadly, your Luke".
Beyond wanting this loneliness to end, I have only a few thoughts - maybe I could move back to the States, to a different job and much better money (while the W wants to stay here), set up a web link to see the kids, be here (Sweden) a week a month, that my being around is important for my son, that when we would sell the house following the divorce I could require/ask the new owner to let me rent the small apartment in the basement and so have some continuity for the kids, who could visit me there.
Sad shards -
Luke
Me 49 W 44 S 13 D 9 W left marital bed Feb. 6, 2004 1st bomb Nov. 2004 2nd bomb fall 2005 W has affair starting in Dec. 2005 W 'inadvertantly' gives me a copy of part of a love letter to OM 3rd bomb Dec. 2006 Affair still ongoing
M58, xW54 S22, D18 M 1984, D 2016 Living a new life.
It looks as if you're starting to come to a decision point in your life. After 3 years you would have to ask yourself what marriage really is all about if you have a woman living in your home but not acting life a wife.
My personal opinion would be to begin planning for the separation/divorce. Have you done everything in your power to change yourself? If the question is yes then you have a clear conscience. Not every marriage can be saved, but you CAN save yourself and that's really what this site is all about. IF you have done what you can and improved what you can then you can move on with a feeling of contentment and look joyously towards a new, freer life. Yes, there will be sorrow of being separated from your kids but remember, they will grow up soon and you have to be ready for this eventually anyway. Be the best DAD you can and the best person you can and you'll be able to move on with your head held high. Just make sure you've exhausted all your possibilities. Maybe sit her down and give her a very straightforward talk that you aren't really married and therefore need to be freed to find a woman who is capable of loving you instead of the ice queen, frigid, adulterous person you are with now.
Just my 2 cents. Dina bränsleförbrukning kan vara annorlunda.
