I know I am being argumentative but it really wasn't his HSP so much as his intolerance and complaining, right? What if rather than not understanding you, he had been in awe of you? "That is so great that you can block things out and just relax." Wasn't it his judgment of you and unappreciation of your talents that was the problem?
I think you are making a key point Fearless. It's not the differences alone that cause the problems but how we manage the differences. Like you said we can look at the differences with awe or with intolerance. So MJ, don't rule out someone who doesn't have the teflon-coating, just make sure they respect you for who you are. Granted the "oppposites attract" phenomenon does not usual work out in the end, but those R do tend to be fun, passionate, exciting, so..... LFL
I think she just means he was too sensitive about everything. And maybe that sensitivity started to make him annoyed at her little idiosyncracies (?). LFL
When you try to get him to express his feelings he may have automatic reflexes to protect himself from you. That's why there may be a longer pause when he goes to answer questions from you.
Yes, I can see that.
That long pause is difficult for you because of your relationship with your mother where she wasn't there for you and your high anxiety feelings. Within that long pause you are worrying about all the potential negative things he must be thinking. When in reality he is not thinking negatively at all but is worried about exposing his feelings to you.
Long pauses have been tough for me in general. This is why I normally find message boards difficult. You don't get that instant feedback you normally would in a convo. I have always needed feedback and to know where I stand. I realize that this is something I need to work on (I know there are terms for this like "fused" or "enmeshed" or something like that.) It's just the result of having an insecure attachment style.
It's great that you had such a happy childhood. There is nothing like unconditional love from your parents.
It's a combination of being raised by a non-HSP mother who thought I was flawed because I was sensitive, AND apparently a tendency among some type 4s to feel inherently flawed. At my age, I no longer believe that I'm inherently flawed, but as a kid I definitely thought there might be something wrong with me. The HSP in Love book describes an HSP with a preoccupied attachment as feeling insecure about their own worthiness but feeling good about others who seem "wonderful" and "better" than the HSP. This is caused by an inconsistent caregiver--completely unavilable at some times, intrusively overinvolved at other times--who was responding to her own needs, not the child's, so is never really available to the child.
I am also not emotionally HSP being that I am teflon coated. I LOVE debates, conflicts, arguments, etc. Sarcasm is one of my favorite ways to communicate.
Sounds like cac4. He's not an emotional HSP either. Don't forget, you may share the same Enneagram type. However, the difference between you and cac4 is that you had a healthy childhood environment and he did not.
That is also why I am not HSP in the way Lillie is.
You could never be an HSP like Lillie or me because you are not a type 4.
One of my "issues" is a fear of performing. Kind of a problem when you are a music major. The fear of performing comes from the combination of my personality type AND the fact that I'm an HSP. In contrast, cac4 never had these performance fears that I did (not to say he didn't get nervous as anyone might). The difference here is the personality type. So, when you consider personality type, HSP/non-HSP, and attachment style combined, there are a LOT of possibilities.
I think you need to be a little careful about mixing up the Enneagram types with FOO issues. IMO, FOO creates who you are and helps to make you into a particular Enneagram type. I do believe genetic influences have a lot to do with our personality and therefore cause us to inherently have a certain Enneagram type. But I also think FOO can override a lot of the Enneagram, or at least tilt it way over to one side of the category or the other.
My point is that the Enneagram may give a lot of explanation for why you are in a certain category, but your negative FOO should really be more the focus of your work.
(I know there are terms for this like "fused" or "enmeshed" or something like that.) It's just the result of having an insecure attachment style.
This is just a twist on the old codependency idea. Fused and enmeshed people are codependent. That insecurity is from experiencing a FOO that created insecure attachment, rather than being born with insecure attachment, a subtle but important difference. To me, the latter implies it is something you are born with and can’t do much about, whereas the former implies you were impacted by environment and therefore can do something about it.
It's a combination of being raised by a non-HSP mother who thought I was flawed because I was sensitive,
I’d say it was a consequence of being raised by a mother with her own issues who projected onto her child (unknowingly of course) because she could not understand that child. Furthermore, it could very well be that your insecure attachment helped to make you even more HSP, further exacerbating the cycle.
What you are describing from the HSP book is exactly the same concept put forth in “The Narcissistic Family” book. A caregiver responding to his/her own needs creates a narcissistic setting for the child, and can even go so far as to cause the child to also contribute to meeting the needs of that caregiver. The child’s needs never get met, so the child learns that the only way to his/her needs met is to focus on him/herself, just as the caregiver is doing. The narcissistic cycle becomes self perpetuating and self sustaining.
So I think there are some people who are particularly HSP, such as Asperger’s, but I lean toward the idea that the rest of the HSP’s are traumatized people. Being very sensitive to having feelings hurt can be a symptom of having a lot of unresolved issues and not having a secure base from which to deal with those issues. With this understanding by both parties, a sense of compassion may be found to help give one another the support needed to tackle those issues and overcome them. Thinking of HSP as a genetic thing that you cannot do much about seems to me to be fatalistic and could resign you to just accepting your fate and saying you cannot do much about it. That is victim thinking and I think you and CAC already have more than your fair share of that.
PBS had a psychology program on TV several years ago that put forth the idea that shy/HSP/similar type of people were paying to much attention to their thoughts, feelings and not paying enough attention to what the OP or the environmental situation. In one way shy/HSP were acting self centered/selfish.
The main point wasn't that shy/HSP's were not doing this to be PIA's, it was more about getting shy people over their fears by having them look more at the whole situation and from the OP's POV.
The program wanted shy people to see how acting shy/HSP was similar to being self-centered and to see the world around then wasn't judging shy/HSP's as harshly as they were judging themselves.
I don't know if Philip G. Zimbardo (PBS-TV series, Discovering Psychology) was in the program, but it was a show similar to his.
I know shy and HSP are two different groups, but there are some similarities.
With all the shy/HSP, FOO, HSP, shy, Enneagram types, "fused" or "enmeshed," codependent, Narcissistic, needs never get met, needs getting met, Asperger’s, traumatized people, accepting your fate, victim thinking and all the other terms/symptoms, my head is spinning.
I think I will say No-thanks, just have a Subway sandwich and a lemon-aid.
Cobra, I don't know how you have the time. You contribute a lot to the forum.
I think you need to be a little careful about mixing up the Enneagram types with FOO issues. IMO, FOO creates who you are and helps to make you into a particular Enneagram type. I do believe genetic influences have a lot to do with our personality and therefore cause us to inherently have a certain Enneagram type. But I also think FOO can override a lot of the Enneagram, or at least tilt it way over to one side of the category or the other.
Yeah, I was forgetting that FOO is way more than attachment type. I think the Enneagram tilts you're talking about are the 9 levels (Healthy, Average, Unhealthy) which are the result of the basic type PLUS the FOO issues. IOW, a type 4 with a healthy childhood will fall into one of the healthy type 4 levels; a person with a very bad childhood will fall into an unhealthy level. I believe that I operated between level 5 and level 4 most of my adult life.
My point is that the Enneagram may give a lot of explanation for why you are in a certain category, but your negative FOO should really be more the focus of your work.
Yes, I understand that. If we work to understand the FOO issues and change our behavior accordingly, we will move up toward the healthiest level of our type. I think I may be at or approaching level 3 now with my additional insights into my FOO.
This is just a twist on the old codependency idea. Fused and enmeshed people are codependent. That insecurity is from experiencing a FOO that created insecure attachment, rather than being born with insecure attachment, a subtle but important difference. To me, the latter implies it is something you are born with and can’t do much about, whereas the former implies you were impacted by environment and therefore can do something about it.
I agree. I don't believe at all that I was born with an insecure attachment type. I know this is the result of my very early relationship with my mother. The HSP in Love book gives suggestions on how an insecure HSP can work toward becoming secure. This is some of what I am doing, or trying to do.
I’d say it was a consequence of being raised by a mother with her own issues who projected onto her child (unknowingly of course) because she could not understand that child. Furthermore, it could very well be that your insecure attachment helped to make you even more HSP, further exacerbating the cycle.
Yes, this is true. The narcissistic stuff makes sense too.
So I think there are some people who are particularly HSP, such as Asperger’s
Well, there's a correlation between neurological disorders, such as Aspberger's, and Sensory Integration Disorder. SID might look like an extreme form of HSP, but I'm not sure. I think there are a lot of fine lines.
but I lean toward the idea that the rest of the HSP’s are traumatized people
I don't know...this just seems oversimplified to me. Fine lines again. There are people who are born HSP and aren't raised by a dysfunctional family. They are still HSPs with sensitivities, but they have a secure attachment style.
Being very sensitive to having feelings hurt can be a symptom of having a lot of unresolved issues and not having a secure base from which to deal with those issues. With this understanding by both parties, a sense of compassion may be found to help give one another the support needed to tackle those issues and overcome them.
Right. That's the idea.
Thinking of HSP as a genetic thing that you cannot do much about seems to me to be fatalistic and could resign you to just accepting your fate and saying you cannot do much about it. That is victim thinking and I think you and CAC already have more than your fair share of that.
This is where I disagree. I don't have a problem being an HSP and it doesn't make me feel like a victim. I appreciate my ability to discern subtle differences in things. It really contributes to my abilities as a musician, for example. I don't want to "do anything about it." I fully embrace that as a positive thing, and I actually feel a sense of pride about it. The HSP book has taught me that there is a reason for my sensitivities, and that it's a good thing.
What I CAN and DO want to change is my attachment style. That is where I (and cac4) were victimized. My goal is become (through the suggestions in the book, including therapy) an "earned secure," an adult who has changed from insecurity to security.
I know that I have mentioned the work of Jerome Kagen previously his ideas have a resonance for myself regarding being a "HSP" and I was looking for a podcast that I 1st heard him on, it is no longer available but the transcript is. http://www.abc.net.au/rn/allinthemind/stories/2006/1722388.htm
This is a short excerpt from the interview about a "reactive/hsp" person acting preemptively to try to control their environment.
"So they have to be in control, because they have learned over 15 years that when something unexpected occurs their hearts start to race, they feel tense and they don't like that feeling. They've got a long psychological arm out, they take notes, they have rituals in the morning, what they're going to do today. They protect themselves against surprises that would give them a moment of tension or uncertainty."
