I think you're looking just a little bit too deep, here.
This doesn't have anything to do with my particular neuroses; nobody likes being around angry people and emotionally "tense" situations, especially when hostilities could break out at any moment. Its just unpleasant. Its not like I'm talking about one of those crippling phobias where people think they're actually going to die if "____". But if you think that you can say something to piss off your W that puts yourself in the proverbial dog house for the next week or more, is as enjoyable a state as NOT doing that, then you've achieved some sort of zen-like enlightenment, the likes of which few other humans have ever achieved. for most of us, there IS a price to pay for pissing off our spouses. the feeling of anxiety ("anticipation of impending ill") comes from the cognative ability that allows humans to anticipate the future, based on history that we've seen repeat thousands of times. You can call that a "preconditioned response", or you can call it common sense. They say doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, don't they?
I hope the book helps your H (and you) understand himself better. My H scored 14 out of 21. Neither one of us likes an overstimulating environment, so we have fewer problems in this area. We don't find the same things overstimulating, though. For example, H doesn't find tastes and smells bothersome as I do, yet, he finds a cruise bothersome because of the crowds. I don't mind that.
I think it comes down to figuring out ways to cope with the things we can't avoid and avoiding the things we can. For example, hosting parties way overstimulates me, so I just don't do it. If it's something like that that I don't HAVE to do, I don't.
Cobra and Lou, I'll reply to your posts on Monday. I am taking NOP's advice and taking the weekend off from R talk. I've got a choral performance on Sunday night and a dress rehearsal tomorrow and I want to focus my energy on that.
mrs cac, I think we dealt the HSP concept a glancing blow on this board a while ago. I made the statement (which I believe was contradicted by someone) that the HSP is practically the same thing as the Myers-Briggs INF (that is both the INFP and the INFJ). I got a lot out of the HSP books because I'm one of those (just like you are).
Re cac being like my bf (and all of his posts over the last couple of days could have been written word for word by my bf), my bf and I took a workshop that some of you will remember based on the book "Undefended Love." One of the things we did in the workshop was identify things we do when the heat gets turned up emotionally. And we characterized this way of coping with a catch phrase. Mine was "I'm Outta Here!" meaning that when the going gets tough in the R department, particularly in a heated convo, I'm inclined to leave the room, or even to get in the car and drive away.
My bf's was "I Guess I'm Just an A$$hole," meaning "I guess I'm just such an [censored]-- I don't know why you even bother with me."
I was intrigued when mrs cac said that "I'm an a$$hole" was one of cac's defenses/bailout lines.
I don't dance to gain anyone's approval...never did. If anything, that made matters worse with my parents, etc. They'd have loved for me to dance for them...I wouldn't do it.
What is your definition of "dancing" NOW in your relationship with your wife?
I assume you didn't "dance" for your parents (I don't know your FOO so this could be wrong) because you KNEW that it was a cheeseless tunnel. Your dancing would have pleased them because they could critique you but you would not have satisified them with your dancing.
So now, in what should be a safe relationship with your wife you still put up the guard that you NEEDED with your parents. Yes, MrsCAC4 may get upset and may make mistakes in how she handles her frustration. However that is not the same as wanting to find fault with you or not being satisfied with who YOU are. It might FEEL that way to you understandably.
Is the use of phrase "I am just an a$$hole" a substitute for "I FEEL like I cannot do or say anything right in your eyes and I just want to give up before I say or do something even MORE wrong?"
FWIW I would give up on arguments with my XH with statements like "ok, so I'm the one who made a mistake." I was just trying to STOP a downward spiral but, not surprisingly, he didn't like that statement either - "you're just being a martyr." "No I am just tired of you not listening to me, OF ME SAYING THE WRONG THINGS and things just getting worse in the process."
I looked the 4 and 5 pairing up on the website below. I put the potential trouble spots here however there are POSTIVES for this match too.
It still seems to me that there is room for BOTH of you to take some time to respect how the other feels and reacts to situations and to work at not taking those reactions so personally.
Potential Trouble Spots or Issues The greatest area for discord in a Four/Five pairing is that Fours are emotional types and tend to push for more contact and intimacy, sometimes becoming overly demanding, whereas Fives are thinking types and tend to push for more detachment and space in the relationship, sometimes becoming more reclusive and private. Fours can experience Fives as being too intellectual and feel that Fives are analyzing them rather than sympathizing with their emotional needs and states. They can also feel that Fives are unavailable and detached, uncaring and unresponsive to their needs in their relationship. Fours feel they can also be impractical and take too long to respond when a situation calls for action.
On the other hand, Fives can see Fours as bottomless pits of emotional needs who drain their time and energy. Fives also feel that Fours' emotionality reflects a lack of rationality or is a sign of immaturity that seems potentially dangerous and out of control. Fours in the lower Levels do not seem safe because of their apparent instability. Fours tend to be easily frustrated with the quality of attention they get from Fives (since they can be preoccupied with their mental worlds, not with the relationship), thus they tend to provoke the Five until they get a response. Fours need to appreciate the minimalist emotional style of the Five, while Fives need to appreciate the Four's depth of feeling. Romantic relationships can get very intense quickly and combust. Usually, the Five retreats first, feeling overwhelmed by the Four's escalating needs and demands. Of course, the Five's withdrawal triggers more clinging and neediness in the Four, more demands, and more endless analysis of the relationship itself. Emotional florid reactions confronting emotional detachment and rational analysis quickly get to an impasse that may spiral into a breakup.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Did you see this post? CAC4 is saying that it is stressful to be trying to think of the exact right words to satisfy you without denying his feelings. I think CAC4 gave a great clue toward better communication. Your Statement to him with a question mark on the end was putting words into his mouth. Try to ask a more open ended question like "How did you feel about our lovemaking last week?" or "I enjoyed when we did x last week; what did you enjoy?" (MrCAC4 please help!!!) and TRUST that he will come up with WOA for you. And MRCAC4 PLEASE use this as a chance for POSITIVE feedback!!
................................................................ Last night, I wanted him to acknowledge last week's sexual encounters and say something like, "yes, last week was an improvement. I really felt closer to you, and I'd love it if we could have more weeks like that." .................................................................
I wanted to say that, because I really do think that. But you didn't give me the chance to say it. And its not an answer to the question that you asked, which was along the lines of "wasn't it just everything you could ever hope for"... 2 possible answers...one would be a lie, and promote a cessation of progress; the other...well, it just put us deeper into a tailspin.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Let me rephrase, I think I already knew a lot of the stuff in the book. It was a rehash of a lot of old ideas, some FOO stuff. I have a few books about this sort of thing, Fear of Intimacy, some others I can't remember the names of.... Nothing groundbreaking that I recall, nothing that really sets a sensitive person apart from others. That doesn't mean it won't be helpful to you, but I think it and the other books I have borrow ideas from codependency, family shame, narcissism, validation methods, this sort of thing. I don't mean to turn you off to the book. - Cobra on "The Highly Sensitive Person"
About the HSP concept, it's been a couple of years since I have read the book, "The Highly Sensitive Person" but I found it very interesting. Maybe I remember it incorrectly but this trait(high sensitivity) is not necessarily a FOO issue. Those of us, yes I have some significant HSP characteristics, who are HSPs are "hard-wired" with these traits - being highly sensitive to caffeine, light, noise, etc.
Dr. Aron explains that in the past HSPs have been called "shy," "timid," "inhibited," or "introverted," but these labels completely miss the nature of the trait. Thirty percent of HSPs are actually extraverts. HSPs only appear inhibited because they are so aware of all the possibilities in a situation. They pause before acting, reflecting on their past experiences. If these were mostly bad experiences, then yes, they will be truly shy. But in a culture that prefers confident, "bold" extraverts, it is harmful as well as mistaken to stigmatize all HSPs as shy when many are not.
I try to explain my HSP traits with these examples. 1)I am very sensitive to violent/scary movies. While "Pulp fiction" was a good movie, I walked out of the theatre with my heart pounding. I COULDN'T get the movie out of my head for weeks/months. It was too intense for me and therefore not pleasurable. My XH enjoyed the movie and the scenes left his mind almost immediately. For this example, is there anything "wrong" with me? Did someone or a situation "make" me sensitive? I don't think so. 2) I am very sensitive to colors, light, etc. and especially in nature. I can get what I can only guess feels like a "high" from being outdoors on a summer day with all the lush varying colors of greens from the grass and trees and bright sunshine. I have always assumed my lack of curiousity and need for drugs is because I don't NEED the sensitivity that drugs give to others. And my guess that those HSPs that do do drugs do it to DULL their sensitivity rather than enhance it as others do. 3) When I need to concentrate on finding my way around, parallel parking, etc., I HAVE to turn the radio off. 4) and finally, though I HATE to discuss this here, I cannot watch pornography because of the same reason for #1. It actually does nothing except turn me off because it is "too much." I don't have a problem AT ALL with others enjoying it and I don't have any issue or stigma with sex. IT's just that pornography is too graphic and stimulating and leaves me totally turned off. (So I can tell my partner, go ahead and watch it alone because you won't get the result you WANT if I watch along with you) No FOO issues for me just HSP issues.
I realize there has already been a discussion around HSPs but I found the statement nothing that really sets a sensitive person apart from others. problematic because it does not recognize that there IS a difference. I don't think there is a "problem" with HSPs and I don't think HSPs can CHANGE these traits. More they need to be aware of them and realize everyone doesn't feel the same way which is OK also.
MrsCAC4, if you have the book, The Highly Sensitive Person" wasn't there another test in the book besides the "Highly Sensitive" test?
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
I don't think there is a "problem" with HSPs and I don't think HSPs can CHANGE these traits. More they need to be aware of them and realize everyone doesn't feel the same way which is OK also.
Exactly. This is what I would hope H could see if I get the book. If he is HSP which I am pretty much in no doubt he is, he needs to see that it is different wiring from other people and there is NOTHING someone can do to make themselves more sensitve if it is physically at the level of the nervous system. He sees people who are less sensitive than himself as somehow coarse and boorish and he sees that as their fault. If they would only try harder they would be aware of the things he is aware of.
Sometimes though I feel like he is aware of things that are NOT there. For example he will over-interpret my tone of voice and put a negative spin on something I have said when there is absolutely no negativity within me. It's true that no matter how hard you try if you are feeling negative about something then that will seep out in your tone, but I have often been taken aback by him interpreting something in a way that bears no relation to the way I feel. Reading about HSP makes me wonder if it is something like the way a deaf person will talk with a strange intonation because they can't hear themselves. Maybe a non-HSP person will be doing the same thing on a subtler level. I find myself constantly rehasing the way I would naturally phrase something before I dare let it out of my mouth because I know he will pick on something about the way I've said it. Very draining.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
Sometimes though I feel like he is aware of things that are NOT there. For example he will over-interpret my tone of voice and put a negative spin on something I have said when there is absolutely no negativity within me.
That one I cannot relate to because I am not that sensitive to how people talk to me or if peple yell at me. My sensitivities are more toward the physical world and not about whether a person is "rude" or "mean" to me. While I can hear intonation easily, it still doesn't AFFECT me.
I can sympathize because my XH used to "hear" things that I never said OR he would be sure of my emotion even if I told him aboslutely that I did not feel what he thought. In this case I am not so sure this is an HSP sensitivity. I would guess this could be more of a FOO sensitivity.
That's the confusion I felt CObra alluded to - I think there can be "inborn" sensitivities and some developed sensitivities.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
This latest discussion pushes a little outside of my knowledge, but what Fran describes in her H sounds a little to me like a peronality issue, which would be a genetic issue. What I wonder is if he has something like Asperger's.
We know a family with a child diagnosed with Asperger's and she is highly sensitive to outside stimuli which can cause her to erupt. Her safe haven is to go into a small, dark place, like a womb, balled up in fetal position. Leave her there for a while and she is fine. ADD is a step down from Asperger's. The two share some common characteristics.
All my comments my comments on this board exclude any consideration for these types of problems since only a quifies doctor can diagnose or threat them.
