Cemar, Your position is clear. The question is what are you going to do about it other than to just whine like you have been?
You know, just 2 years ago MrsGGB would not give a BJ, said she didn't like it etc. Now she does it unprompted several times a month. She says she is enjoys doing it now because of what it does to me, and I believe her. She doesn't want me to finish in her mouth, and I respect that. What changed? I started being radically honest, and listening better to her. I stopped my needy, clingy behavior as well.
My point is that improving the R through communication may bring about the changes you want in the bedroom. Whining about what isn't happening while refusing to make the changes in yourself isn't going to get you anywhere. But then, if you've read what everyone here has told you for the past 2 years, you already know that.
Both of you have given up all power to your Ws. Then you complain because you don’t like the arrangement your Ws have made, so you want to change it. But neither of you want to be responsible for making those changes, you both want your Ws to do that for you, plus do it happily so that neither of you have to feel guilty about forcing anything! You want all the benefit without any of the cost.
Then you both have the gall to sidestep any responsibility for even attempting these changes by hiding behind the excuse that you are concerned about your Ws feelings, that you don’t want to force them, that you don’t want to D for their sake, blah, blah, blah. The fact of the matter is that you are only concerned about YOU. You can fool yourself all you want with this veil of being a loyal sympathetic H, but your Ws don’t buy that, nor is it what they want. You both put your Ws in the worst possible position – making them responsible for your faults but trying to keep the “glory” of rescuing the relationship to yourself. That is a lose-lose situation for your Ws and it is no wonder they have no interest in giving you sex.
If you’re scared to assert yourself, then say so to your Ws. That way they can adjust and at least get credit for being the ones working to save the M, not you. Stop making them responsible for your lack of backbone.
CeMar,
Oral sex is BASIC sex to me.
How can this be basic to you? When was the last time you received oral sex?
There is an incredibly strong EMOTIONAL element in BJ's, BJ's take the relationship to different and HIHGER level.
When was the last time this happened? Or is this just what you IMAGINE it to be? Are you just living in a fantasy world, from watching too much porn? Are you wanting your W to transform into those girls on the internet and your real complaint is that she won’t do that? Your comments are starting to sound like you are very detached from reality.
Cemar, Are you going to answer my question about whether or not there is anything in your marriage that you like, anything you can build on? It seems to me that you choose what you write and what you choose to respond to so that you keep the topic in a place where you can continue to focus on your unhappiness and how it relates to what your wife will or will not do.
Assuming that Cemar isn't a troll, then one must conclude that his habit of making wild statements then waiting on others to correct them, when used as a method of learning, is most inefficient.
We've all wondered, but then it seems that the cycle continues anyway.
Let me see if I understand this...Since I am the one that wants FAR more from the relationship, it is I who have the problem to address. So I should force the issue, to work with the wife to solve the issue, and if we can not work togeter on this issue, then I (the one with the problem), should take the risk and divorce her and find someone that DOES want a more physical life.
From my point of view, yes. Or adjust your expectations accordingly. I understand that you do not subscribe to the idea of divorce. None of us do or we wouldn't be here. That is our choice, because divorce certainly IS an option. So, if you CHOOSE to remain married because your views/ethics on marriage override your desire for an active sex life, then it is what it is. This is YOUR life Cemar, your years here are numbered and precious. You get to decide how to spend them and your wife gets to decide how to spend hers. You can wallow in self pity for the rest of your life because you can't control how your wife chooses to spend her years or you can start living your years to the fullest.
You act like someone has put you in this horrendous position in life and you have no choices. You do have choices Cemar, some are difficult, but that's life. Life is like a box of chocolates pal.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
Cemar you know that you are not going to get a big wet intimate blow job before you get a kiss, you even know that oral sex can be more intimate than regular sex so how about working on kissing as a step towards oral. If your wife is intolerant towards sexual intimate situations then you are going to have to go slow or she'll just blow out of an intimate situation. How do you boil a frog?
CeMar Good grief, what the heck is wrong with wanting oral sex? Nothing wrong with wanting or actually giving/getting OS. You said the female had to ~swallow for you to feel desired. A SO can desire you to almost the nth degree and still not like swallowing.
Well, CeMar, some people don't like to swallow, don't like the taste, or don't like something else related to swallowing.
I wouldn't tell Lil's bf or any other associated male with a female partner he had to F her, cum, and then lick her out.
I personally LOVE to give oral sex, so it is very hard to understand someone that would have HANGUPS about it. Good for you but not everyone sees it the same way.
A women that does not like to give her man BJ's is making a BIG negative statement about her value of the relationship. Maybe so. Maybe the R and OS are two different subjects to the couple.
Sex is all about the INTIMACY of the moment, it is about TRUST. Straight sex is easy because the intimacy levels are LOW. Intimacy levels are LOW, maybe. Sexual band with low, could be. Experience level low, yup I heard of that. Personal boundaries/choices, heard of that many times. Any number of things influences OS preferences.
So what do I do with a male friend that won't eat pizza if someone touches it while serving it to him? It's my opinion this person is OCD'ing but that is the way he is. This same person wipes butt for a 90 something relative when they have an accident. How do you explain that difference?
I have seen porn where a guy has anal sex with a gal then she gives him a BJ. Not in a thousand years would I be interested in something like that. It's something I see as unsanitary.
Now go grab me a pickle, wipe your fingers on your shirt tail first, OK?
Martelo, that's pretty much what I was getting at with my question about something Cemar is happy about or satisfied with. He's gonna have to build one brick at a time, so find something that's right and build from there.
"Happiness is a butterfly, which, when pursued, is always just beyond your grasp, but which, if you will sit down quietly, may alight upon you."
What Cemar and Choc fail to realize is that they are the ones with the problem. Their wives merely have what they want.
Let me see if I understand this. My wife has everything that she wants in a relationship, mainly someone to just be there. Since I am the one that wants FAR more from the relationship, it is I who have the problem to address. So I should force the issue, to work with the wife to solve the issue, and if we can not work togeter on this issue, then I (the one with the problem), should take the risk and divorce her and find someone that DOES want a more physical life. I think this is the way Scnarch recommends. Did I get it or am I way off base? ---------------------------------------------------------------
I didn't say that your wife has everything that she wants. I said that getting what YOU want from her is YOUR problem.
You claim that you want "FAR more from the relationship". This claim is based on what facts? Don't tell me that you actually asked her and that you both mutually concluded that your statement is representative of your mutual feelings.
I am NOT recommending the threat of divorce. I AM recommending that you actually have conversations with your wife where you clearly and concisely state what you want from the relationship, as well as discussing your wife's needs from the relationship. Have you even taken the first step? Why would you jump up and threaten divorce? You have certainly NOT convinced me that your relationship is entrenched. You haven't even answered enough questions for any of us to have even a remote idea of what your wife might be like.
My opinion is that until you learn basic communication skills, you will either tire of being a troll, or wind up divorced, the decision having been made for you by your wife.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Cobra Both of you have given up all power to your Ws. All??? How about given up too much power or power in situations where we shouldn't? I am speaking for myself.
Then you both have the gall to sidestep any responsibility for even attempting these changes by hiding behind the excuse that you are concerned about your W's feelings, that you don’t want to force them, that you don’t want to D for their sake Cobra, I chip away at the R problem, some times by withdrawing, sometimes by telling BB she can have things she wants but I won't be part of her new life (the recent house problem where I said I wasn't moving but she could), sometimes by coming back to problems and doing something a little different.
that you don’t want to D for their sake Oh, I said that? I said for all parties involved, which is BB, “me“ , finaccial, our kids/grandkids, extended family members, and for so called ethical/moral/religious like reasons. I also said no D now because I still haven't fixed all of "me' that needs to be changed.
On a personal note, would you encourage your imaginary sister to date me if we were the same age? Would you tell your sister this Lou guy had points “A” “B”, and “C” together, but he needs fixing in areas “D” and “E”? Anyone want to play match maker but change this first?
Sometimes my ideas about R's are off base. Sometimes my ideas about R's are very-good but I don't know how to move from point "A" to point "B". Some times I have brass balls (harsh) sometime there are eggshells (wimpy) things between my legs. What I am looking for are hard rubber balls. Forceful but not destructive. I want to make am impact for the good of our M/R without breaking bones. Hurts are OK, broken bones not so good, especially when the bone comes through the skin.
...You want all the benefit without any of the cost. Again when BB complains about her body shape and tells me she isn't sexy, then I say "nice azz" anyway and rub her butt and show her my semi-erection through my pants at the breakfast table. So , I get the eyeroll sometimes, among other responses.
I will admit to looking for the less cahotic/confrontive way to solve problems. I will admit I don't like your "in your face" ways many times. Other times I see where "in your face" works.
If you’re scared to assert yourself, then say so to your Ws. That way they can adjust and at least get credit for being the ones working to save the M, not you. Stop making them responsible for your lack of backbone. What I want to know is how do you see the w's as working on the M other than making/wanting themselves to be the center of attention, more princesses like? The weak backbone I can see that part.
The idea of the co-operative R as being the best for a M has been in place for a long time. The newer idea that a woman needs and wants the man to take charge or she isn't happy, is something from before the ~1950 and has come into its own again. I recently heard of the book "The Way of the Superior Man" and "Wild At Heart" in the last year.
The new church I attend is the first time in a long time that promotes "de-woosification of men" seminars. Prior to this it had been sensitivity classes and training that have been endorsed.
Cobra, rather than see me as reluctant to confront BB, think of this hunting situation.
Shoot at a target when you know what is in front, in back, and to either side of the target before you pull the trigger.
That object that looks like a deer in the distance turned away from you, might be only a rock with a tree branch behind the rock. It might be something else.
When I am starving I tend to shoot and not be as careful. When I am not starving, not sure of what the many outcomes might be, don't have a plan to manage some of the outcomes, I proceed more slowly.
I see CeMar's situation as him wanting to be desired and lusted after. I see myself wanting to be in a R where there is an exchange of emotional, social, sexual, economoc support or comfort level and other things. too
For a long time I was sort of OK with sex with out much desire from BB. I know I can't make BB more interested in sex just like I know a H can't insist his W cum when they have sex.
I want the passion/respect/desire to flow both ways. I can talk with BB about the topic and move towards a goal. Some things I can insist on. Some things I won’t get. What happens later is to be determined.
Ther is nothing really in my marriage that I like. I like who my wife once was, but who she is today is very different. When you lose your sex drive, in her case there was very little that it did NOT impact.
Ther is nothing really in my marriage that I like.
Why do you insist on making statements that are so extreme? Tell me the benefit you get out of this way of looking at the world - other than fooling yourself into thinking you are always right. Goes back to the old "right but not happy" scenario.
