Not to speak for Lil, but what I think she is frustrated with is the refusal of her BF and CAC to admit vulnerability. It is not about anyone being right or wrong, it is the denial they are both in. Lil reacted the same way with Mojo when we were pressing her on her issues. Mojo was the master deflector (who has morphed into the Master Bator).
That same denial is what I see in CAC, and I’m sure Mrs CAC sees it too. There are some things that CBT will help, but this is one of those in which the shell is so think, nothing will get through. At least some level of FOO is needed just to tap into emotions and empathy. CAC is completely shut down to this and doesn’t even know what I am talking about.
Nop,
There are people here with far worse issues than Chrome.
Yeah, now that I think about it, Corri is one of those. But she has done a lot of FOO work herself.
Also, are you aware that you and your wife's interactions at home are going to eventually become your children's FOO issues?
We are both more than aware of this. I also knew that as our M worsened and confrontations escalated while we worked through things, the effect on the kids would be worse. The unknown question was whether the resulting recovery could allow healing to take place (which our counselor thought would happen) or whether leaving the issues unresolved but trying to suppress the arguing would be better, including a likely D. The focus has always been on the kids, but I know that both W and I have to be happy too.
I do not think there is a clean answer to this and I think a lot depends on the time involved. Had we kept arguing for much longer, I would have had to make a decision to D, and I was actually very close to going that way. But I also know that things are darkest before the dawn. Up to that point, I did not think things were as dark as they could be, so I knew we had not yet reached a turning point.
When I saw that D was imminent and that things could not possibly get any better, I knew the wrong thing to do would be to D. We were at the turn and the M would improve, which they did. Both W and I capitulated on the power struggles and reevaluated our true objectives. But you cannot deceive yourself about this. You have to be able to recognize the changing tides and whether a possible change is real or only wishful thinking.
Things are pretty good right now. The kids seem much happier, stress is lower, grades are good, plenty of social activities and support, so I think in the end, the path I chose worked out. Will they have issues? Of course, but D would have created issues too. This is no optimal solution. There is only the lesser of two evils. The good thing is that I have gained a TON of knowledge from this experience and from this board. I stay here for my kids. As they get a little older, I hope to guide them in understanding our family and what they went through, and how to have a happy R.
Yeah well you don't always pick the right tunnel the first time.
This is just my personal thought (Why I am just waiting for Cobra to tell me why this is wrong?) I think it is a fact of life that you'll (and all of us) will occasional start down cheeseless tunnels. The KEY will be you'll start figuring out the tunnel is cheeseless without going ALL THE WAY DOWN and that will feel SOOOO much better.
The analogy I used to use for myself was finding myself in a hole. At first (Rule #1) I had to learn to put the shovel down. Then I learned to pull myself out of the hole. Now I am better about realizing a hole is starting while it is more of a rut and I can just walk out rather than have to climb. Yes I know I LOVE my analogies. I have an aversion to the cheeseless tunnel because I HATED the book "Who moved my Cheese".
So look at the past few days as a lesson in determining where you can make a difference (hopefully CAC4 will do the same)
By the way he said some VERY nice things about you on Cemars thread. Could you help him out on WOA questions?
Last edited by fearless; 03/29/0705:45 PM.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Your attempts at bolstering my confidence are appreciated, but it's looking like ALL of the tunnels are cheeseless. Any posts of mine that have indicated that I found cheese or thought the cheese was just around the bend must have been delusional.
I'm starting to think I cannot make a difference. The lesson from the last few days is that there isn't anything more I can do at this point.
Cheese that I'm looking for but can't find: 1) H accepting responsibility for his half of the marriage 2) H telling me that he is committed to doing whatever it takes to try to fix the problems
These would be a good start. Then maybe the nice comments on Cemar's thread would make more of an impression on me.
He bought Michele's book and came to this board to try to figure out how to fix ME. Just like Cemar's trying to figure out how to fix his wife. If I keep pushing, he just says that he's an @sshole and that's the way it is. This is not helpful.
I've asked him several times to read Michele's book again, but he hasn't. He hasn't even agreed to do so. He can't make heads or tails out of Schnarch so he isn't likely to pick that up again. I started reading it and trying to decipher it for him, but that didn't work either.
Hi Mrscac, Feeling down, frustrated and overwhelmed is something I most definitely relate to...I am often coming to the board to get my feelings out. Must be a 4 thing! One helpful bit of advice from MWD is to remember that you are only an interaction away from turning things around. Do something positive, and usually it brings about something positive in your SO. Hard to make the first move sometimes, but you will feel much better. ( I just did this and am happy I did.)
Quote: ------------------------------------------------- Cheese that I'm looking for but can't find: 1) H accepting responsibility for his half of the marriage 2) H telling me that he is committed to doing whatever it takes to try to fix the problems -------------------------------------------------
1) Have the two of you actually defined "halves" or the respective spousal boundaries in the relationship? Expectations?
2) I think that CAC has discovered what a few of us that are a bit further along in the process discovered early on. If you grab an alligator by the tail, it will bend back and have a good snap at you. This can leave the grabber a bit surprised, and unprepared to take the correct action, so the grabber lets go of the gator. CAC is probably a bit confused as to the correct course of action right now. Be calm and slow down a bit. Maybe take the weekend off - no relationship matters addressed.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
NJ, I think I have made the first move, a few times. It doesn't seem to make a difference in his attitude.
Example: yesterday H writes that he might like sex 2 or 3 times a week and would like to describe our SL as "frequent, varied and enthusiastic."
So last night I tell him I saw his post to MrsNOP. I was thinking that last week we had sex 3 times. (Last week was also a week where I was feeling loved and adored.) At least 2 of those encounters included BJs (which hasn't been my favorite thing, admittedly). I think I've been more enthusiastic about different positions, and not just last week, but over the last couple of months. So I ask him if last week was any closer to his description to MrsNOP, and he says "not really."
I'm not asking him to lie. But I told him it would be nice if he acknowledged my efforts. But that's a prickly word because he and Cemar and a few others bristle at the thought of their W's making an effort to have sex. I remind him that his goal won't come over night and he says, "oh, I know."
When I'm actually doing the BJ he seems to think it's fabulous, and I think has even used those words. How does he get from "fabulous" to "not really any better?" This doesn't make sense to me.
This conversation deflated my sails. It makes me worry that I will never meet his standards. That's not a very positive feeling.
1) Have the two of you actually defined "halves" or the respective spousal boundaries in the relationship? Expectations?
I don't even know. No, I don't think so, because I'm not even sure what the question means.
H seems reluctant to take ANY responsibility for the problems, other than to declare himself a hopeless @sshole. We don't discuss or define much of anything. I talk about what I think or what I need and H sits there not saying anything, unless I say something that ticks him off, in which case he'll make a crack about it on his way out to smoke.
We don't seem to agree on anything except that we're both unhappy.
Maybe take the weekend off - no relationship matters addressed.
I plan to do at least that. My head is spinning and I'm not sleeping well.
Quote: ----------------------------------------------- H seems reluctant to take ANY responsibility for the problems, other than to declare himself a hopeless @sshole. We don't discuss or define much of anything. I talk about what I think or what I need and H sits there not saying anything, unless I say something that ticks him off, in which case he'll make a crack about it on his way out to smoke. -----------------------------------------------
Okay.
So, CAC, what do you plan to do about this? Are you working on a plan to address issues with your wife? Do you have the gator or does the gator have you?
Your wife has stepped up to the plate. You know from reading here that there are always two sides in these matters. It's your turn.
All the best, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
