Its over...she filed part 2

[OldFool]

OK. Perhaps I'm confused. It was my understanding that you wanted to try to save your M and the R with your W. Is this correct?

If not, then please say so and I'll gladly stop offering advice that has that goal in mind. Without that as a factor, you can feel free to speak your mind, stop avoiding what you want, stop walking on egg shells worrying about what to say to her or how to act around her, and "just let it all out".

As I said...

Don't get me wrong, wanting to tell her how it is can be a legitimate desire (and doing it can be OK too, if you don't mind the repercussions)...

If, however, this is still your goal, then I stand by my advice and doing these things will not help you reach it. I recognize that it's not fair, but right now that's irrelevant. As Michele says, this isn't about achieving "fairness". Likewise, Dr. Phil says that in repairing a relationship, someone has to be the "hero". In this case, that'll have to be you because right now she's not interested. If you're going to be successful, you simply have to accept that it's not fair and, at least for now, there is nothing you can do about that.

I'm just exhausted from trying to do the best I can...

I'd bet there isn't a person in this community who doesn't understand this. Trying to save a M when the other person doesn't want to is, perhaps, the hardest thing you will ever do. You have to ask yourself whether you want her back enough to put in that kind of effort.

As you so succinctly point out, right now your WAW is leaving you. That means...fair or not...you have only two options, either try to prevent the destruction of your M or finish it off yourself. Everything else is at her discretion (again, fair or not). As a result, you cannot "save" your M at this point. The best you can hope for (and what you should be striving for if you want to eventually save your M) is to simply keep her from obliterating it altogether until she gets her bearings.

Think of it this way. Your child heads off to play in the street. It would be nice to have a discussion about how this is a dangerous activity, how at some future point they could be seriously injured or killed, and that is why they should choose not to play there. But if they're young enough, they can't understand these concepts so, instead, you simply yank them out of the street and threaten punishment if they do it again. In return, they "hate" you for preventing them from doing what they want.

Is that fair? No. However, the goal isn't to achieve fairness or to make them understand, it is to prevent them from being killed until such time as they can understand the bigger concepts and how hating you for not allowing them to play in the steet is unfair.

Likewise, in the context of your WAW, you're not trying to convince her of the bigger concepts as she is not at a point where she can recognize or understand them. Instead, you are avoiding behaviors that will tend to push her closer to killing the M so that, hopefully, it will still be intact when she reaches the point at which she can understand the bigger concepts.

Oh, by the way, dealing with the issue of avoiding what you want is part of what detaching and GALing are about. When you do both, you have opportunities to do what you do want which makes it easier to put your own needs on hold for a little bit when you're interacting with the WAS without feeling like everything is about them.

[ImprovedRomeo]

OF, I always appreciate your advice and response. Please don't take my response as an act of frustration towards you it was towards the situation I'm in. I've been going through this for almost a year. I've done a lot of DB'ing and sure back sliding too.

This morning she asked me to join her and D to the play class she signed D up for. I went and we all had a good time, she made some jokes and so did I. She told me how D got a hold of her bra and tried to put it on. She said D hasn't gone bathroom in two days so she's kinda crabby, then she jokingly said "like you" and started laughing.

After the class she said "are you leaving or do you want to go have lunch, it's almost lunch time". So we went and had lunch and we talked about work and D etc.

I'm just confused why she keeps stringing me along while also divorcing me. I don't know what to expect and how to act. I've tried the Alaska approach i.e. don't offer help, be cordial but not overly nice or friendly...she played that game back with me the same way. I've tried the friendly approach like today and she plays that back with me the same way. So what's appropriate? what's right and what's wrong?

[ImprovedRomeo]

The latest email from W regarding her flight, notice the last sentence:


I was gonna leave at like 945 but might try to be out of here as soon as D eats maybe around 815 830 or so. Can you be ready for me to drop her off?

I can't even do an online checkin cause I don't have a confirmed seat. That's why I want to make sure that I get there early. Which sucks cause I'll just be sitting around like 5 miles from you and D doing nothing.

[kikisum]

hint hint

do nothing.

[OldFool]

Please don't take my response as an act of frustration towards you it was towards the situation I'm in.

Don't worry, I didn't. I'm just trying to make sure what you are doing is in line with your goals. Sometimes that means you need to change what you're doing...sometimes it means your goals have changed. The key isn't in what your goal is, it is whether or not what you are doing moves you toward it...whatever that may happen to be. If your goal is still to save your M, then telling your WAW how you see things out of frustration is probably not the best course of action. Better to vent that frustration here on the forum.

You've been at this a year or so which is a long time. I'm only in half that so I understand your frustration...but not fully. You may be at the point where you don't have any more to give (which is part of the reason for my question). I always encourage folks to keep at it as long as they can and want to. But everyone has their limit.

I'm just confused why she keeps stringing me along while also divorcing me. I don't know what to expect and how to act. I've tried the Alaska approach i.e. don't offer help, be cordial but not overly nice or friendly...she played that game back with me the same way. I've tried the friendly approach like today and she plays that back with me the same way. So what's appropriate? What's right and what's wrong?

Well, it seems clear that she's unsure what she wants. If she knew she wanted back together, she'd have come home by now. If she knew she never wanted you again, the D would have been final months ago (I assume).

There is no right or wrong answer, per se. I think the key for you is moderation. Do some of the "friendly stuff" (as you put it) every now and again, but not every time she asks and keep it reasonable (no two hour lunches...just a normal 40 min. to 1 hr., for example). Be cordial and accomodating to reasonable requests, but don't bend over backwards to make her new life carefree (part of being on your own is dealing with life's harsh realities). Take her calls every now and again, but not every one. Respond to e-mail that needs a response, but not to every one you receive if it's just sharing the details of her life.

I think the important thing to consider is whether or not what you are doing is improving the situation and how it is making you feel. For example, if your "being friendly" is adding to your frustration, making you feel used, or bringing you down, then you need to stop. It's easy to think that being friendly is improving the situation, but if you end up reacting out of frustration because of how it ends up making you feel, in the end it may be counterproductive.

At the bottom line, I suspect (correct me if I'm wrong) you still haven't really carved out a life for yourself apart from your WAW. If that's right, you need to redouble your efforts to do so. With a year of this under your belt, it's time to start making a life for yourself that doesn't include her (apart from dealing with issues related to the care and upbringing of your child).

Personally, I have created a life I could be satisfied living for the rest of my life. My desire isn't to live the rest of my life alone, but I would be OK doing it as things now stand. If you can't say the same, then it's time to do some work.

Oh, one last question. You've been separated for a year or so, but how many months have you really (and I mean truly) been detached?

[kikisum]

SR- checking in on you, looks like OF has really hit the nail on the head. you've had much difficulty detatching because everything your W says and does breaks your heart or lets you down. if you need to push her away to start feeling better about yourself, do it. the key here is not letting her think that she has one bit of an influence on your life. DON'T worry about her right now. if she is going to come back, she'll do it, but on her own time. she must, however see that you have a life without her that you are comfortable and excited about. remember, it was when my H did this to me that within only a couple of months i was begging him back. the catch is, he really had moved on. it was not just a show. he discovered himself and got a life. worked like a charm.

i know you are tired. i actually told my H about your situation, and he was #1 happy that you had stuck up for him a number of times and given me insight, and #2 very understanding of your situation.

just be prepared. if you do truly let go, your W might decide she wants to come back. then what?

[ImprovedRomeo]

Thanks kiki and OF. Sorry, I haven't had a chance to be on here, W's out of town this whole week and between work, D and bad sleep I've just been physically exhausted.

OF, you're probably right I haven't carved out a life for me apart from W because she's all I ever think about when I have any free time. I don't even know what carving out a life means. If it means surviving without her then I guess I have it but if it means being happy without her then no. I feel my life's on hold...I'm subconciously waiting for her to come back so I can go do things like traveling etc.

kiki, I'm glad your communication with your H is going so well that you can open up to him about this place etc. I'd be a bit cautious to not spill the beans all at once but again you're quite good about understanding him. I guess I'd want to know at what point he moved on and how? and what triggered it? Then again probably too early to ask him such things specially on my account - the wounds might still be fresh.

[MyWifeHasGoneCra]

I guess it's been almost a year since the this whole thing started for me now. I finally have my own place. Of course, we've only actually been separated for five months. It's been about a year since I found out about the PA. It's hard to let go.

I don't know if you've seen it mentioned on other people's threads, but you have to basically start thinking of yourself as single and W as a friend or maybe as someone you are secretly attracted to. I still think about W a lot myself, but not the way I used to. I think of her about the same now as I did all the years I knew her before I finally got the guts to let her know I really wanted her. There isn't as much pain that way.

[OldFool]

I don't even know what carving out a life means. If it means surviving without her then I guess I have it, but if it means being happy without her then no. I feel [like] my life's on hold...I'm subconciously waiting for her to come back so I can go do things like traveling etc.

I think MWHGC may have said it best...

I don't know if you've seen it mentioned on other people's threads, but you have to basically start thinking of yourself as single and W as a friend or maybe as someone you are secretly attracted to.

No, you're not necessarily going to be happy all the time without her, but you should be able to be happy some of the time. If, by now, you don't find yourself laughing at something or smiling without trying, then you really need to get to work. There are things that might make you happy that you should, nevertheless, steer clear of while you're in this situation. Telling her how you really feel, engaging in pursuing behaviors, dating or becoming emotionally involved with another woman, and...of course...becoming physically involved with someone else.

However, beyond these things, it's time to take the rest of your life off hold. If you two were planning on taking a vacation to Cancun, you might want to skip doing that by yourself, but take a different trip instead. Always wanted to see the world-class San Diego zoo? Then go. Wondered what it would be like to walk the Capitol mall in D.C.? Go do it. Find something you'd like to learn how to do and throw yourself into it. Cabinetry, small engine repair, DIY home improvement, landscaping (plants, water features, etc.), stamp collecting, you name it. But take some time to do something interesting that improves you (such as giving you a new skill or new knowledge).

If learning doesn't float your boat, try giving something back. Find a charitable organization that needs your skills or, perhaps, just a warm body or strong hands. Then spend some time helping someone else. As my grandmother used to say, when you help someone else worse off than you, you either forget your problems or you put them into perspective.

As I've said elsewhere, the issue isn't whether or not you will be able to detach. Chances are you will at some point. The question is whether you will do it sooner when it might still help you and at your choice or if you will do it later when it will have little effect and at your WAW's choice.

Don't get depressed because you go do something and just don't seem to have the heart to. You won't...at least not for a while. When you choose to do or learn something new, set yourself a minimum. Promise yourself to go at least X number of times...and then do it. Make yourself if you have to. I'll bet that after a few times, you'll notice that it's not so bad. The key is time.

My best to you.

[ImprovedRomeo]

Not much to report. STBXW got back from her trip yesterday. This morning I emailed saying I hope she made it back safely and to please pick D up at the day care as I'm going to be at our remote office.

She replied:


I did get home ok. I have D's present in my car to give to her. I got you a shirt from there too.

I'll make sure to give her some medicine and stuff tonight! I miss her tons!! Thanks so much for taking care of her for a long time. XYZ is a pretty neat city, get your company to send you there for a visit.


Funny because this city is also where we wanted to move to about a year ago and buy a nice house there - a few months before she dropped the first bomb.