In addition to the computer talk, BB said she was having more knee problems, the dog losing eye sight, ........ she was getting older, might fall down the steps............... she wants a different house...........so after several month of “I want a new house” I did some looking.
The main point of the post was I said I wanted to stay in the old house, she could live in her house, and I would drop in on her Wed evening and go out to lunch on Sunday.
The usual defensive positions were taken, BB said I was making her feel selfish, if it bothered me to put an extra $75K in a house so we can down-size and pay double taxes, she could put up with staying here, for a while.
I want her to go see an orthopedist and a physical therapist but she thinks she knows her condition well enough to follow her own adjustment/coping plan.
So, now I am a doublely selfish. Also not caving in to what I feel are differences of opinion and pickyness.
Same old process of conflict, withdraw, and connecting has played out in our R. BB doesn't want us to live in two different houses, so she is acting friendlier than normal.
Yes, we did look at a few houses, but BB didn't like the house or location. In addition to many other reasons, this time her pickiness worked in my favor.
I think I need to stick to my idea, that BB see an orthopedist and a physical therapist before any "elderly friendly" houses are bought or constructed. BB still walks on the treadmill 3X a week, so that gives some indications that her knee problems are not critical.
We have a split-entry house and there are 7 steps from the drive-way level, to the main floor. I have carried anything heavy from the lower level to the main level and visa-versa for many years.
I said moving to a new house wouldn't fix her knee problem so do the knee thing before she moves. I see the different house as an extension of BB wanting to or feeling like she has to keep up with the Jones'.
Another question I have, if "we" (BB's term) need to be down sizing and are giving away 25% of our clothing, why do "we" need walk-in-closets?
Lil asked why her bf buys things and doesn’t follow up on dispersing the items, plants not planted in the ground and food not refrigerated or sent.
One thing that might be similar is, some people see the money in a checking account but don't spend much mental time thinking about the work that was required to earn the money, to put into the checking account. They can see the money/benefits but don't mentally see the work it takes to get the money there or from the start of a job to the final end product.
In some ways it is what caused Lil’s bf to build her a pantry. On a good day, projects are envisioned, planned, worked on, and carried out to the end. On lesser days, projects are envisioned, started, delays happen, the vision is lost, and things wind up unfinished or become trash.
I also think people that have things given to them look at life/things less seriously. There are some good things to the saying “Let kids/people work for things they want, they appreciate/respect the item/person/it more.”
I can't believe you remember the pantry, Lou! Sometimes it is easy to remember a compliment, especially on a dark day Lil.
You said I was similar to your bf in that we are both handy and can create and/or do things. I have had a few dark days, they pass, but little things you and others have said help more than most people will ever know.
I get lots of compliments from customers and get paid for doing things I like to do. My family and social area is short on compliments and appreciation sometimes. Sounds normal, doesn't it?
To this day he has never finished it! It's totally usable Functional vs. appearance. I know that role too well too.
Sometimes I feel that the cost of the main parts of a repair are reasonable, it's the parts for the finishing touches that seem to be over priced.
Last year I remodeled the main bathroom, except the flooring. I just changed the flooring in the bathroom because the old linoleum was good but a little out of style.
I have some tile trim pieces to install but what I want isn't what BB wants, so about an hour's worth of final finish work is on hold till we find something we both like. I have 2 sets of trim pieces cut from different tile, just sitting there. They looked good by them self or with one part of the bathroom decor but something just doesn't look right to bridge or blend the cabinetry with the floor covering and the counter top.
The tile is low priced and I bought the tile-saw so I am not out much. The mastic/glue cost as much as the tile and once installed it's a major job to remove the tile and replace it.
Part of this is the 7-- they get a buzz from planning but can get stuck in that stage and never carry out the plan. So, how does one improve one's self in situations like this?
I have gotten overly optimistic and have had to reign in my optimism sometimes, telling myself that some things look easy but will require about double the time I first estimated. I know that is not an Enneagram type of response. What is the Enneagram answer?
Lou In some ways I see BB acting like she did the work and now it's time to get what she wants and I see myself thinking I did all this work and this is all the (not much) fun I can have? If I want more I have to put BB through the wringer and think; Why?
Nop ----------------------------------------- Maybe you need to look at it in a different way. What amount of BB's comfort is derived from your day to day contributions to the relationship? She is getting most of what she wants from you, correct? ------------------------------------------------------------- Lou I would say she gets a good part of her satisfaction from being with me. I will also say she is overly dependent on her pets for some things. She has always gravitated towards pets when she had holes in her life
NOP ------------------------------------------------------------ I understand you not wanting to pressure your wife, but in reality, your sexual needs are pretty simple. You aren't asking her for monkey sex, just the comfort of her intimate companionship on a more frequent basis. -------------------------------------------------------------
Just give me 20% of some of the things MoJo talks about and some cooperation, rather than having to break through defensive walls.
BB said she lost the sexual desire back in 1981 and has sex with me because she knows it is something I want/like, something she sees as a W's responsibility to keep her part of the M agreement going.
I think she gets more out of sex than she is willing to admit to. I know for me and can imagine it is similar for other caring H's, to just get sex is like eating imitation chocolate, which is better than not having real chocolate. Another frustrating part is also not being able to give something back that has a similar value. BB likes back and foot rubs but to me the exchange does not compute on an equal level.
NOP ----------------------------------------------------------------- Unfortunately, it may be that the only way to reach her is to withdraw some of the comfort your provide in the relationship, in order to highlight that which is missing from her. -------------------------------------------------------------
I agree. The longer I am on this forum and the more I go through the approach/withdraw process, I am becoming less anxious with the possible negative outcomes. Sometimes what I used to see as a potential negative becomes a point of appreciation.
Cobra said on another thread: I asked if Cobra would endorse if he had a sister. Cobra's reply; Date you? Maybe. Get serious or marry? No way. I wouldn’t want your interactions with my imaginary sister to turn her into another BB. And unless you could be more assertive, more steadfast and assured, I would have a hard time respecting you. I already have one brother in law who is controlled by his W (my W’s sister) and I have very little respect for him. I didn’t like it at first, but I asked, so I can take what you said.
The part that I disagree with to a point is, would I really have that much power, that I would turn your imaginary sister into another BB? I see my part, but the OP has a role too.
You can go a lot further than you do in being more forceful without being destructive. True.
Why you went on a house hunting trip when you have no intention of buying a house is beyond me. That is placating. several reasons Cobra.
1. I knew what BB talks about wanting isn’t always reality. She wanted a condo with a quarter acre for the dogs. No such thing here. Every condo I saw has a postage size lawn. 2. She wants a patio home, same set up. No such thing here. 3. She wants an individual house with a big yard but no close neighbors. Only partially doable.
I could have said NO, No, NO, all day long and not looked. Once looking, BB sees what she wants in her head, isn’t available or only available with lots of work and then she still has to give up something.
And then maybe I am like cac4. If I am that hard to live with, I am calling her bluff. Maybe I wanted to get rid of her. Maybe I was tired of BB’s “I want” and was paying her to leave. Maybe I felt looking was one way of saying "you are on your own baby." Co-operative R are much better than conflictive R's.
I knew if I didn’t do something to pacify BB, help her along on “her journey” I might be stuck with something I didn’t like if I ever had help her out of a jam, like selling something she bought. I think 39 years of M deserves some obligation on my part.
Am example was a month ago she was excited about buying a patio-home similar to what a friend has. Nice house but the yard is about 16’X36’, not something suitable for 3 dogs. If she bought it, she would be wanting to move in a few months. If i said she couldn't have it, she would have kept wanting it.
On that deal, I said to offer the owner 15K less than he was asking, and said up front I wasn’t moving. a month later, BB said I was right not to like the house.
metaphor? So, sometimes talking a kid out of being a doctor because you know as a parent, the kid will be in deep sh!t, sometimes you have to say yes. Sign up the kid for anatomy and physiology, (A&P) chemistry, and working with cadavers so they get a taste of reality.
That might be a drastic explanation, but looking, was me signing BB up for A&P with out me being there to help her do the course work.
BTW, The theoretical kid that wanted to be a doctor has the stuff to be a good nurse so that is what I encouraged.
Who says you would break bones? Why do you assume this? Are you afraid of your anger too? Look at Hairdog. It’s more a fear of making things worse. I had some anger at one time because I used to let things get really bad before I did much. It was hold in till things explode, left over foo MO’s.
At one time (foo) it wasn’t safe even to have an opinion. I got past that most of that when I had a good job. The back, work, and R problems brought back some foo issues. That is how things go sometime.
What’s wrong with an eye roll? Let her roll ‘em. Stop feeling responsible for her comfort. Agreed
This goes with Nop’s comments on the difference between negotiation and blackmail. IMO, you have the “one down” position right now in your M…….Restoring the balance will mean that BB has to give some things up and make some accommodations for you. That’s what you want, right? So why is that suddenly blackmail? When I said blackmail, I was wondering if that term was too strong. Maybe something like self-centered/selfish, with some "if you don’t do xyz there will be consequences."
No one likes to be in-your-face. I don’t like it. But I have learned that the more I put off confrontation, the higher the probability that I will eventually have to use it, and to a stronger degree that I otherwise would have to had I confronted issues before they blew up. In fact, doing just that is NOT in-your-face. It is simple, clean, up front boundaries. OK. I got your point C. It is being up front. It still looks/sounds confrontive to several forum readers. FWIW.
When I am starving I tend to shoot and not be as careful. When I am not starving, not sure of what the many outcomes might be, don't have a plan to manage some of the outcomes, I proceed more slowly.
So what’s your point? Are you saying you don’t know what to do with your M? Starving is a metaphor for being desperate. And yes, many times I don’t do things because of lack of positive outcomes. Some of the negative outcomes are perceived or related to past history.
. Nop’s dancing idea was great. But it scared the heck out of you so you didn’t do it. You stayed put. If you stay put, how will you ever know what works? If you don’t know what works, I can see why you don’t know what to do. It might work, but it might be another hole to climb out of.
It has two good parts that are good (building self confidence in me and could make BB see that other people like me more than she thinks) and it might look like me dabbling with the idea of having some female friends while putting BB in a less wifely role. IE me being a flirt.
The only difference I see between you and CeMar is where you want to go, though those two destinations are very similar. The similarity between you and he is that you both justify all sorts of reasons not to do something, anything. … have no reason to do since you have no idea how things could end up once you start going down the road. Yes, I like more certainty than many people. That is consistent with why I initially didn’t marry BB when she thought we were an item, Why I held off on some of our sexual activities, (wasn’t willing to risk PG) why I sold our first house before building our second house, why I don’t day trade on the stock market, how I turned $4K into $xxK.
But that uncertainty of where you will end up scares you so you make excuses not to go at all. Stop worrying about how bad things could get if you screw up, and look to how good things could be if you just did something, anything. I wouldn’t say I do “nothing.”
Some good news. No house talk recently. BB has been acting really satisfied. We had a “Peace Between the Sheets” evening, where I went a little farther than what the book describes. I put some steam on her clothes ala "I want a little sugar in my bowl Nina Simone http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XZm0jYXZ_2I then had some sex another night. The sad part is I want more:0 Ha ha. No, that is normal!
I am almost through reading “Wild At Heart” Did it help? Do I see the writers points? In some areas.
While I consider some of her medical are valid reasons for doing something or not doing other things, moving to a new house she would still have knee problems. So why not fix the knee problem now. If not now, what would a new house offer other than being wheel chair accessible.
Lil, I was seeing some "drama queen" and some reality with the knee problem.
So how do I incorporate my approach on a long term basis?
First I had to give up trying to fix the R, being responsible for things outside my control. In some ways I had to get to the point of what I read on a bumper sticker: "Wife for sale, take over payments"
So Lil, you know some one I could trade her/hook her up with, where she would be happy? Just an academic question, not much reality.
I am not saying that to be mean or derogatory towards BB. Its more like do I want this cr@p to continue? Can it be good for me or BB?
Sometimes I think like cac4, I must be an @sshole in BB's mind so why does she stay? I know I am not but I know we are different.
It's one of those situation where I an not happy but still don't want to neglect BB or the R. I still have my "head of the household/responsibility hat" on, my general's mind set that the troops need food, a place to sleep, and medical care.
As a kid I didn't take anymore from life than I had to. My father and step father died before I was 17. I gave back to those that helped me when I was growing up when I went to work, supported my mother and myself with part-time jobs before I could work in a business. I did yard work and drove around one of those women that you described to Jenny, that wore a Shaw.
About BB no budging, well I don't know about no budging. Wouldn’t say that. Its more like lots of noise and cranky sometimes.
It's working with independent, do what she wants to do behaviors. It's my guilt about wanting to do things I want to do when she thinks/tells me it isn't something she likes, makes her really upset. Its that sad, lost soul face she displays when she is about to lose a best friend.
Can you use this approach in other areas? Back to reality. Yes I can use this approach other places. I see caring too much screws some things and not caring as much is helpful.
I still have my "head of the household/responsibility hat" on, my general's mind set that the troops need food, a place to sleep, and medical care. I thought my comment about having the "general's hat on" that line was over stated. I have thought about this and see the hat is more like the "supply sergeant’s hat."
Also not caving in to what I feel are differences of opinion and pickyness.