I wish I could be more help which is why I have kept my fingers still here (except to post to Lillie and Cobra).
I still have nothing specific to offer except to say that the differences in how people respond are very interesting. While I have a feeling it was difficult for MrsCAC4 to read CAC4's initial response, I read it and "got" it. (Okay I obviously admire MrsCAC4 but I have a soft spot for CAC4 since he validated my need for a map!)
This makes a long post but I wanted to take MrsCAC4s response to CAC4 and show I responded to their statements. I am going to write in Red how I interpreted CAC4 and Mrs. CAC4s comments. I'll leave MrsCAC4 in black and put MrCAC4 in Grey.
I've been digesting this and I'm ready to reply. Call it P/A to do it here instead of face-to-face, but actually I like having my words written down. That way I don't forget anything and I don't have to worry about saying the wrong thing in the heat of the moment. If I speak what I'm feeling right now, I might say something I regret, and make it worse.
I looked up the non-violent commmunication website (courtesy of HD/MsHD) and will attempt to state my feelings based on their lists of feelings.
Its not about the technicalities. Its about my inadequate mind-reading skills.
I would not see this as dismissive of "feelings" by CAC4. I understand that given the dynamics of the sitch and understand that MrsCAC4 does feel hurt whether CAC4 intended it or not. The definition of reading minds is difficult because of the mistake of word usage. CAC4 really believes this word usage issue was a big factor and since the wrong words were used how else is he to interpret other than he should have "known" what MrsCAC4 meant.
Because we both know you really can't read my mind, I will assume you are being dismissive of my feelings through this sarcastic statement. Because we have spoken at length about my tendency in the past to expect you to "know" what I want or feel, and because I have been trying very hard do a better job of communicating my needs to you and NOT expecting you to "read my mind," I really am feeling hurt by this comment. I am angry about this comment. I am dismayed and disheartened by this flip comment.
(ford: its "quicken" that we're using...quickBOOKS is for businesses. I hope that doesn't make you feel inadequate).
I don't think this was as much aimed at MrsCAC4 as out at the world in general and ford specifically. I laughed when I read it. Why did you write "I hope that doesn't make you feel inadequate?" What purpose does this statement serve? What exactly is your point? Because you chose to use the same word that I used to describe my feelings (I didn't find inadequate on the NVC list, so substitute insecure), I can only assume this is another effort to dismiss my feelings. I feel hurt by this statement too.
But imagine this hypothetical scenario: If she were to come home and tell me that she crashed the car, (theoretically possible, driving skills aside), I would immediately become upset. But then imagine, after I express my feelings of shock and horror at the potential negative aspects of such an event, that she actually meant "parked" the car...not "crashed".
I thought this was a very good analogy to tell us how CAC4 FELT. I do not think this is about blaming mrsCAC4 as much as it is to explain CAC4's STRONG reaction and this, for me, certainly explains it. In no way to I see it as a slam against MrsCAC4's word usage in a subject that she is not well versed in. I do think it feels like a slam against her for not understanding WHY he had a strong reaction.
I don't think this is a relevant analogy. I don't think you can compare common everyday words and language, words that I have been hearing pretty much my whole life, to specialized technical language that truly is as foreign as Japanese to me. I studied French for 6 years, but I can't converse in it and I really can't read it either. Why? Because I didn't start learning it until I was 12, and because I stopped using it as soon as I finished school. It's highly likely that I might mix up French words and unintentionally use wrong ones. I don't think that would be a problem if I was chatting informally with someone who knew I wasn't close to being fluent. My point is that it is MUCH less likely for me to confuse the words "parked" and "crashed" than it is for me to confuse technical words that have no concrete meaning to me and that I hear or use infrequently.
I should have *known* that she meant "parked".
But mrsac4 you just admitted earlier that you do not know the technical terms well and so, unlike crash, CAC4 may not have been able to assume based upon your calm demeanor that a crash had not occurred.
You couldn't possibly know that based on the words alone. If I had emailed you, you'd have had only my written words, so you would have had to assume, at least initally, that I intended to say "crashed" and not "parked." But in your scenario, I've come home and talked to you. Not only do you have the words coming out of my mouth, you have my facial expressions, my body language, the tone of my voice, my demeanor. I did come in the house last year and tell you I crashed our truck into our car, and I was terribly upset and remorseful. I believe you even told me after the fact that you could "tell" by the sound of my voice, as I called your name, that something had happened. This was before I even told you what happened. I can assure you that you would have witnessed none of that if it was simply a case of my using the word "crashed" instead of "parked."
This is a huge personality flaw on my part, and I am at a complete loss as to how to overcome it.
Full disclosure, I have probably used this phrase before myself:) NOT that it makes it right or anything... For me this type of statement would have been said out of pure frustration and feeling unable to figure out a solution.
Cobra already addressed this.
I bet my friends at the fire department would be rather upset if, the next time your cat is stuck up a tree, you dial 911 and yell "fire".
Well I thought this was clever. MrsCAC4 this is not about blaming you. This is CAC4 explaining to us why he got so upset. In this format I think he was responding to specifically to you alone but to everyone that was reading along. Please CAC4 let me know if I did get this right.
The words "cat," "tree," and "fire" fall into the same common-everyday-words category as "crash" and "park," so I don't find this a relevant analogy either.
Mrs.CAC4 I understand WHY you feel hurt and angry and it makes sense. I just do not think that was CAC4's intent even if it is the result. I think his intent was more to show you how upset and hurt he is feeling. For me sarcasm can be used to cover up my feelings when I feel vulnerable. Is it possible that CAC4 is doing the same thing?
I see this as more sarcasm and dimissiveness from you. It generates more hurt and anger in me. Cemar (and anyone else who is reading this), if you have said anything like this to your LD wife in the past, STOP NOW. It does not help. It will not spark desire in her. It will push her away. It has been pushing me away for a very long time. But I'm not going to just swallow it anymore. I'm pushing back.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Your insight continues to amaze me. You have the ability to sift through all the words to find the nuggets of truth. I believe that you are correct on all points. Perhaps you should be getting paid for this.
It is time to take this off-line. I don't think it would be productive at this point to continue in this manner.
Thanks again to all the other posters who took the time to reply. It has been very helpful to me.
Cobra: your FOO analysis may be correct, but I don't agree w/ any of your conclusions. I don't blame anyone for my career loss...it was nobody's fault, least of all, mine. I did everything right. I may be angry at "fate", but that's it. If anything, my parents treatment of me made me more independant...and I don't think anyone that knows me would describe me as "non-assertive".
now I have these visions of "Darth vs. Luke" (they've been running the series recently on HBO...I watch too much tv.). "You must face your father"... "do not deny the power of the dark side!" "your feelings betray you..."
A while ago he mailed a whole bunch of flour tortillas to his daughter who lives way outside homemade tortilla land. Because he put the wrong zip code on the box, they got lost in the mail and when they finally got to her they were all moldy.
So a couple of weeks ago, he bought more. He set them on his kitchen counter. They were fresh from the bakery, packed in plastic bags and it's humid here.
After they had sat on the counter, I said, "If you put them in the refrigerator, they won't get moldy."
He said, "Well, they're going in the mail today."
But they didn't.
Today I saw them on the counter and looked at them carefully. They were moldy. I said, "I think I see a spot of mold on them."
He said with exasperation (not exasperation at me, but at himself), "Yeah, you were right. They're all moldy."
I said, "Why didn't you put them in the refrigerator? They would have kept longer."
He said, "Because I was supposed to get them in the mail."
I said, "But the post office is four miles away. The refrigerator is two feet away."
I'm not asking for a review of what I said to him. I did okay and he didn't get mad at me. I just want an explanation of why he didn't put them in the refrigerator so as to extend their shelf-life and buy more time to GET them to the post office. He often sabotages himself this way. He buys plants and lets them die before he gets them in the ground-- he does this A LOT. Even though the garden is at my house, I've stopped paying for the plants. He does this with lots of stuff. We throw away tons of food at his house.
Anyway, can you explain this thinking to me? I think it has something to do with not wanting to fail, and then feeling like a failure anyway. Thanks.
I just want an explanation of why he didn't put them in the refrigerator so as to extend their shelf-life and buy more time to GET them to the post office.
That's an easy one, *I* can tell you that.
Because if he puts 'em in the fridge then he won't see them and he'll forget about them and they'll never get sent.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
But he looks in the refrigerator multiple times per day.
When he's hungry! You don't go to the post office when you're hungry. Plus, then you see them and remind yourself to take them to the post office then you forget during the process of eating and feel even stupider the next time you see 'em in there.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
