Ok, so I have been visiting these forums for almost 6 months now, trying to navigate/figure out/fix my marriage. I'll have to say that these forums have been the only lifeline I have had in trying to save my marriage. I thought things were working and my marriage was getting back on track as my wife has stopped talking about leaving, etc, but something happened recently that I really need someones help with.
My wife and I have been married for almost 7 years, and have known eachother for over 9, I am 30 and she is 34. We have 2 small children 6 and 4 and a older daughter from a previous relationship of hers that is 14. She is a good mother, and I like to think i am a good father. Basically around April of last year my wife hit me with a serious relationship talk. She basically let me know how unhappy she was. Now, we had been having problems for some time basically finding ourselves moving apart and taking each other for granted. When the young children were born, I was very involved in starting a new company, and it consumed a lot of my time, while i always loved my wife and my children - I wasn't the most supportive husband at times when she most needed it.
As you can imagine this hit me hard, and I tried to apologize for taking her for granted, cried, did a lot of things that i now know were not right. She had even brought up the possibilities of maybe us needing to be seperated so she can "feel" what its like to be without me, and that maybe it would wake her up to the fact that she still loves me. She has also said things like - she doesn't want to get married again, and that if we seperated she would probably just date, as she wouldn't want the kids to have another man in their life.
I finally found DivorceBusting and started to apply some of the techniques. I really started to focus on her more, and listened. I tried hard to change some of my critical ways (I have a tendency of pointing out the bad in things before pointing out the good). I also tried to Get a Life, get back in shape (i am not out of shape, but i had let myself slip during the stress of our marriage problems), and i stopped trying to have any expectations. I also stopped trying to have the R talk as it just kept bringing up bad feelings.
Things were better, but not like they once were. It's almost like we never really fixed the core problems of our relationship. I could feel we were both making an effort, we just weren't talking about it. I could still feel her hesitance to open back up to me, but there were definately times when things were better. She would plan things for the future with me, etc. Things felt like they were getting better, we were able to go out and have a good time (i would always suggest the date). She would kiss me somemornings before work (a quick peck). We would stay up until 2am again just talking like we used to. we would have sex more frequently. She even bought really hot lingerie for valentines and suprised me with it and initiated sex. (something she hasn't done in at least a year and a half)
Recently however, we got a free night at a hotel based on some "free stay" points plan, and since her mom was going to be in town I suggested we spend the night at the hotel in town and go out and have a good time. She was not against the idea, but she wasn't 100% for it. We didn't talk about it in terms of our relationship, but I decided to push a little and she aggreed. ANyways she wore a really nice dress and looked fantastic. Dinner was great, conversation was great, and things were going well. We then went dancing a little at a club she likes, and we were having a great time, then at some point things changed. I may have had one too many drinks, and was getting a little to physical, and kissed her a few times on the dance floor. I could feel her closing up, but like i said I had probably 1 too many drinks in me to understand. We decided to leave, and check in the hotel. So back at the hotel, we took a bath together and got in bed naked together. I started touching her, and again I felt like she was pulling away. It was almost like she "felt" like being with me, but was feeling really pressured. Looking back I think the whole night was premature, and she was feeling pressured by the anticipation of a hot night together. Before long I got the picture and pulled away myself, she then opened up to me again in bed.
Now she had been drinking some, but she basically said - She is tired of making me feel bad, she is tired of pulling away from me, and that she doesn't know if she is just scared of leaving me and doing it on her own, or what is going on. She doesn't like feeling cold to me, but she is still sad. Obviously this hurt me greatly, but I wasn't completely suprised. Anyways, the next morning she apologized for what she said, and gave me a long hug. I am not sure if she is feeling worse together or we just took a big step backwards.
Anyways, I'm not sure how to take this new change. We haven't really talked about it since that night. However things are definately a little more distant. I tried to understand what she said to me as well - We are financially well off, and if she was to leave she would be more than okay as she would get half, so i'm not sure what to take of her comments about her being scared of doing it on her own. I know as well that she knows how much it would hurt the kids to have us be apart. At the same time (based on her own experiences) she believes that us being in an unhappy marriage is worst for the kids than us being apart.
I am so confused. I love her, and i want to be with her and keep my family together. At the same time I hate seeing her so sad. I feel like she is trying to push me away so she won't have to make the tough decision (and risk it being a bad one). I have tryed to be strong, tried to tell myself that is what she is doing and I need to be strong. However the coldness and constant rollercoaster ride is definately taking its toll on me.
I guess what i'm trying to say is that I want to stay together, but i don't want this relationship, I want our old one. I want a new relationship with her where the walls are gone, and i don't feel like i'm walking on eggshells, I want to feel like she is crazy about me again. I hate feeling like I am causing her unhappyness and I should just step aside and try to make the best situation for my kids as possible?
I need some help understanding what is going on, Or maybe just some reassurance to stay the course and stop overthinking things.
Haven't been DB'ing all that long and don't even know if I'm doing a good job -- still feel like I'm blundering through, but the bottom line is if you want your M to stay together, you need to start DB'ing and yes, stay the course. The advice I always get is get a life (GAL) -- BE THE MAN SHE DOESN'T WANT TO BE WITHOUT and/or BE THE MAN SHE DOESN'T WANT TO LOSE!!!! I've had those 2 lines go through my mind constantly and it truly makes sense! Do the 180 stuff, which is do the complete opposite of what you would normally do in situations where she is frustrated in your M or gets upset, etc. Also, I have learned that, when things do start going ok, maybe piecing, you can't expect them to jump back in 100% overnight. Continue to support & love, but don't push. None of this is easy and like I said I am absolutely no expert, but I have been given lots of advice on these Boards. Read, read, read!!!! the books AND all of the forums that apply.
Me: 38 H: 35 S4, S5, S10 Bomb 01/07 Wanted D - nothing would change his mind Numerous A's prior to D bomb; EA prior/during D bomb Piecing 04/07 Deployed for a year 05/07 Still Piecing 2010 M 11 yrs 05/10
That night out might have seemed like pursuing. You might need to give her a little more space. Work on yourself. Go to the gym, lift weights, run, get some new clothes, etc...
Also, start reading relationship books, understanding women and their needs, etc... Start noticing what you do or say that brings her closer, and what causes her to back away.
One more thing. Ask her lots of impersonal quesitons, get her to talk about her day and thoughts. And with each thing she says come up with another question. Don't have any expectations.
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
I don't know. We wen't to counseling briefly, 4 sessions. They were somewhat helpful, but on the 4th session, the counselor basically said to my wife 'you have to make a decision on whether you want to work on the marriage or not', and that without that his counseling wouldn't help as he didn't want to talk about the past, and instead focus on how our future can be better together.
She had basically said that she understood the steps for improving our intimacy/communication that the counselor was laying out, but she wasn't feeling passion for me - and she feels that the passion should just be there. That was our last session. She didn't feel like working on the marriage at this time if she wasn't feeling that for me. I don't believe that. I feel that the two go hand in hand - A healthy relationship feeds passion, and a healthy dose of passion helps the relationship weather rough patches.
Part of me feels like its time to have a discussion about our relationship again with her. I feel that she looks at me as more pathetic for letting her walk all over me, and that because i'll stay in this relationship even though it's not a happy one she thinks less of me.
I sometimes think that I should sit her down and let her know that I am not happy with this relationship either, and I want a new relationship as well - but I want it WITH HER. If that is something she wants, maybe counseling would again be an option. I guess i'm just afraid that she may say she doesn't want it with me, so since i'm not ready to take that as an option maybe i'm not ready for that discussion yet? Some days i feel like I'm ready for that, but then I think about my children and I get the strength to go on as normal.
Right now tt least we spend time together now, and I have the chance to show her what i'm made of, maybe given the right circumstances a spark or two can relight the fire?
Passion in a relationship is chemical. Like oxytocin for women...
A good 180 for you to try would be to be stronger in the relationship. Try taking a more assertive stance??? I don't think this is something you tell her. You have to show it. Just saying these things is only going to make her think, "Yeah, right." You need to act it out. You might want to avoid relationship talk and just focus more on yourself. Becoming a more attractive guy. Think about some of the behaviors you had when you were dating. How have you changed? How might you become more like that guy you used to be?
There is no arriving, ever. It is all a continual becoming.
Running is right. I'd avoid a lot of talk right now - particularly relationship talk. For you, it will all be about action. It's time to really take your life back, start leading and become stronger in the R. Keep up the working out and go out and update the wardrobe are action steps - this stuff had positive effects for me in my sitch.
There are several guys in piecing that have worked to figure this out so I highly suggest reading some of their threads - there are lots of golden nuggets in there....and keep posting. Read up on threads by Grasshopper, Frank_D, COG just to name a few. Each of us learned that being a man means a lot more than being a subservient wuss - and I don't say that to offend anybody. I just know for my situation, being that wuss and trying to incite passion from my wife was like trying to light a match under water....
Keep posting...we'll help you along...
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
You are both right. I re-read my earlier posts and I see what you are saying. My posts do make me sound like a person who doubts who they are.
Over the past 6 months I have been so consumed with being a better husband and father that I have lost my way as a man. I've lost my mission in life, and I'm not living it in line my values and goals.
Honestly, I feel like this attitude only re-afflicted me recently. When I first was thrust into my situation, I like a lot of other posters here went through some dark depression. Then one day I was hugging my littlest girl feeling sad that I may be seperated from her (100% of the time) and I just came to a really profound realization. The things in the past - no longer exist, and the possible future - does not yet exist. And I can either live my life watching the movies of the past dwelling on the hurt and projecting what-ifs of the future and killing myself from the inside. OR i can really enjoy all the joy and happiness I have right now, and take advantage of the gift of being alive and do something positive. At that point I really started appreciating my kids, and my life, and at times even appreciating the good qualities of my wife (it was hard at times)
That attitude carried me through the hard times of hearing her tell me she thought we should seperate, etc. However now that some of that is diffused and we may be on track to reconcile, I started What-if-ing again.
Based on your posts, I think I actually understand where we are right now in our relationship now. She doesn't want to break up our family, she doesn't hate me, and she can't find anything majorly wrong with me, however she can't find anything majorly right with me either. I need to get back to myself, I need to do what makes me and my family happy day in and day out. I need to stop what-if-ing and start as-if-ing. She may cheat on me, she may leave me, I may even go through a painful divorce.
But right now life is good, and i have the power to make it better. I am going to stop trying to "act" a certain way for her. I can only be me, and if she likes it - fantastic. Otherwise, i am better without her, and she is better without me.
I am going to set some short term goals of things I want/need to do for me.
- Go to the gym 2 times a week - Go snowboarding with my friends at least once a week until the season ends (3 weeks), and then find another sport/activity for the spring and summer. - (i'm thinking trail running. - I live in seattle and the pacific northwest is beautiful in the summer) - Help my 6 year old to read better. - Take my 4 year old on walks twice a week to just talk and spend time together alone. - Work on reviving old friendships. - Work on making more business contacts for the future.
Very few people understand what goes on in the head of a man about to lose his family, thank you guys for understanding and offering your thoughts and help.
Excellent - huge revelations in that post on your part. Re-read it OVER and OVER again. I think recognizing where you are at - and that YOU have choices to make that will effect your OWN joy and happiness is a really big deal. And, as I have said many a time - when we approach life with a sense of love versus a sense of fear - it opens up all kinds of possibilities.
I think this is where Michelle's wisdom (and other successful piecers shines true). Often when the bomb drops, we become obsessed with improving things for the OTHER person, we don't focus on ourselves - and in the end, that is where the focus lies. So kudos to you for a big step. Future focus.
Stay with it. Like I said, re-read your post over and over. Get goin' on those goals. I particularly loved the ones related to your kids. I've been told that was a big deal for my W as well - to see me really reconnecting with my kids....
Rock on! Now get out and shred the back side of Mt. Olympus! That's bein' a man!
Sven
Never sacrifice the great for the good. Sometimes the beauty of grace is that it makes life not fair.
We have been planning to go on vacation this week to visit her family in Chicago. We've had the tickets for a little while now. She had a really stressful and bad day yesterday getting things together, and then last night she starts to say - "i don't want to go", and starts giving a bunch of reasons (none of which include me) - things like she doesn't really want to see her mom, as she has done some mean stuff lately. And she doesn't want to leave the dogs at the kennel.
anyways, i knew deep down that wasn't it, i knew something was bothering her, but i didn't want to open up old wounds, and didn't want to start a relationship conversation.
Well, I didn't start the conversation, but she did. Basically - she didn't want to go to see friends and family while she is feeling so "alone". And she was scared because she didn't care anymore if we were together.
So it hurts.
But i told her everything I had been thinking recently. That I hate seeing her so sad. It kills me. And if she thinks I'm happy - she is wrong too. that I realized that I need to stay strong for my family. And that if I let my sadness, my anger, and our problems get to me, it wouldn't help me, our kids, or anything in our situation.
I told her that I don't want her to stay with me just because she is scared of making the wrong decision - just to have us wake up 5 years from now misrable. I told her I don't want this relationship, I want a new one - with her. It's not the relationship I want, I want to feel the love, closeness, and security that I once felt with her.
She said - "I don't even know who you are. I just get irrated by everything you do right now. I don't know who you'll be in a year. You'll go off start another company and everything will be back to the way it was. I don't even know if I care anymore".
that hurt, but i tried to let her know that I don't know who I'll be in a year either. All I know is that i didn't like who I was last year, and I know I won't be that man again. I didn't like him, and he wasn't a good father, or a good husband.
I let her know that this is not my decision. But I don't want to be here if she is doing me a favor, or just afraid to come to terms with how she feels with me. I don't want or need a wife that is annoyed or irrated by everything I do.
I am not a bad person. I just hope that one day she can see that again.
Anyways, this morning she woke up and we are supposed to fly out at 5pm tonight. 5 tickets -3500.00 she says - why are we going on vacation right now. I wanted to scream - "because you wanted to visit your family", but i held my toungue. all the while the little girls are running around excited about going to the airport (they love to travel). My wife says "I don't know if we can go, i need to take care of the dogs" to my little kids. And without missing a beat - they are both like "You can stay, dad can take us" - boy that really helped. Its like they knew I needed a little strength. Anyways she ran upstairs and cried so they couldn't see her. She talked to her friend that we are supposed to visit as part of our trip. (she went through a similar MLC or whatever and divorced her husband, but now has been telling my wife that she shouldn't rush into anything and that she doesn't want to see her make the same mistakes).
Anyways, she comes back down, and I ask her what her friend said. - Apparently she said something to the effect that maybe she should just let me take the kids and let her stay and think about things. I said that if that is what she wants that I would just get online and get some tickets to visit my mom and take the kids. I mention visiting grandma with me to the girls - and they are jumping up and down with excitement. (i am so glad they are too young to understand all of this).
Anyways. Next she is like, maybe I should just take the girls to chicago, and you stay home. I thought about it, and the whole thought made me feel so hollow. I almost broke down right there. I told her, I don't feel comfortable with that, and I didn't think I had the strength to be away from them right now. If she wants to be alone, then fine, but i need to be by my kids right now.
Well, now its 2:20 and she went to drop the dogs off at the kennel, and last i heard we were all going to Chicago. Go figure. The big old happy family.
I don't know whats going on, but i feel like I can't control it, so I am going to stop trying. I just need to vent from time to time. I love my wife, I love my family more than anything, and I will stay strong for them.
If she can't be happy with me, than i can't let that stop me from finding happyness on my own, alone. I hope and pray that the fog will lift and she will be able to see me for who I am once again.
Anyways, i just felt the need to post my situtation. I'll post again with updates after our "vacation".
