After talking about it, we both realized that some people think they can say whatever they want to their immediate family--things they would never say to acquaintances. They think the familiarity of their family allows them to be "honest," which really translates to rude.
My bf subscribes to this pov.
Blackfoot, cobra's comment was an insight into why cac might have done what he did.
Your comment was simply that the dialogue Mrs. cac reported (and that I said sounded like what my bf and I go through without going into any detail about the content of OUR convo) made Mrs. cac and me sound "needy and fused," and that imagining yourself in cac/Lil's bf's shoes made you irritable.
I think that was just your Contrarian speaking, but I couldn't seem to make myself let it pass. Of course you can have feelings-- duh!-- but if you express irritation at something you imagine I might have sounded like discussing a subject when you don't know what the subject was or any of the specific dialogue... expect me to comment on it.
Besides, cobra and I were married in a past life. We have history.
Corri: depends on the error message, and the type of file on which it is "bombing". Adobe apps have notorious file-locking issues, which cause the files to be left open even after the application is closed. The only way to get the computer to "let go" of the files is to re-boot the computer. Try doing the copy after a clean re-boot, before touching any of the apps...see if it makes a difference.
Others: I said, "forget the technicalities"...but you won't, so here goes: this "backup" method only requires the user to save their files to a specific folder. that's it. the app magically detects any changes to any of the files contained therein, and copies those changes over a secure, 128bit encrypted link to a server at my office, which in turn, is mirrored onto another device, and then, the server is backed up onto tape, and the tapes sent off-site to a secure location. "file>>save" (which, you have to do anyway) and your file is in 4 places. (or more, if you use it to sync corresponding directories on other workstations). USB or other external media is fine... Lou's "every 30 days" would be good, too, if you can remember to actually *do* it. (I wouldn't). Even if you do, when your house burns down, the disk will burn up with the computer.
This is not the problem. the problem involves using a web "portal"...a page on a server that gives you a view of stuff on the network, including this magic folder, so that you can see it from say...someone else's computer. If you use my login to access this page, you see more than the average user. and yes, I deal with users every day...they have their own logins which limit the damage that they can do. If they were to report to me that they had "crashed the entire network", I know that wouldn't be possible. But if you say it in reference to my login...I'm going to react in an alarmed fashion, because it IS possible.
cac, I'm so glad you chimed in, because I think you may be able to give me some insight as to why my bf reacts to me the way he does.
As someone said yesterday (I think) you no doubt come across users at work who mess things up or think they have, but are you as terse and possibly rude to them as you are to mrs. cac? I don't know how to phrase that right (just as I don't know how to phrase stuff with my bf so as not to set him off).
My bf has actually gone so far as to say to me (granted, it was back when he was still drinking) when I said, "You would never be rude to customers the way you are to me," "I have to be nice to them, but that's being PHONY!"
So civility is phony and rudeness is real? I know I'm not asking this right, but can you see through to what I AM asking and give me some insight?
Example:
We spent last night at my house. I have the air conditioning on already because it's almost 80 here in the daytime and very humid. He came to bed around 2 am (sigh... as usual) and left one of the living room windows wide open. The first time he did this was about two weeks ago. He left my house to go to his house for the rest of the day and left the same window wide open while the a/c was on. I didn't say anything at the time. He was long gone.
So this morning when he got up, I said in the most neutral tone I could possibly muster (because in truth, I was not mad, I just wanted him to be aware of this): "Would you not leave the window wide open when the air conditioning is on?" Before he had a chance to reply, I slowly meandered out of the room with a comment like, "Thanks... I appreciate it." I could see that he was giving me the "Huh? What are you yammering about" Look (and yes, I've had lots of experience with that look).
My question: what would be a foolproof way of stating what I stated so that he would reply simply, "Oh yeah. Sorry. No problem."
Or did the fact of my bringing it up at all make him feel like he had done something wrong, thus making it impossible for him to reply simply and civilly?
This sort of thing happens all the time.
I want to be treated as politely as he would treat a stranger when it's about a neutral topic like air conditioning.
Blackfoot, I've given specific details about this exchange, so please tell me if this sounds needy and fused and if you get irritated reading it, okay?
... but are you as terse and possibly rude to them as you are to mrs. cac?
"have you stopped beating your wife??"
good low'rd!!
(been watching too much "blue-collar comedy, lately).
Originally Posted By: lillieperl
My question: what would be a foolproof way of stating what I stated so that he would reply simply, "Oh yeah. Sorry. No problem."
don't think I can be of much help. It wouldn't matter what or how you said it to me. I'd feel like a bone-head either way, but not because of what you said. I'd feel like a bone head because of what I did.
Which, I suspect, is how you'd feel if you gave your wife the password to your work account and she actually did "crash the network". You don't think you'd be feeling a bit inadequate if you had to explain *that* at work?
That relates back to my story about my XW, the weather model programmer who doesn't know what Ctrl-C, Ctrl-V does. Yes, she's smart. Yes, she's computer savvy...if you're talking about Fortran and Unix and things she's done before. Yes, it wouldn't take a whole lot of effort on her part to learn MS Word. Her latest thing is that her lawyer emails copies of divorce documents that we might sign (if we agree with them) as Word documents. XW doesn't have Word on her machine. I've given her at least three different ways to handle that situation (Google Docs, if nothing else). I've sat down on her machine and showed her. I've bookmarked the Google Docs page. But every time she gets a new document she can't figure out how to open it. Yes, sometimes it feels like she's feigning helplessness in order to avoid responsibility for doing what she's agreed to do, or even what she wants to do.
That's probably how she felt when I couldn't load the dishwasher her way. Whaddyagonnado?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
I'd feel like a bone-head either way, but not because of what you said. I'd feel like a bone head because of what I did.
Thanks for that honest reply. It makes me feel less like a bonehead because I can't think of how to phrase my statement without making HIM feel like a bonehead.
"Bonehead" is one of his favorite names to call himself when he thinks he has messed up.
"Would you not leave the window wide open when the air conditioning is on?"
Step back a minute and put yourself in his shoes, not his big ol’ shoes now, but those of a little boy who is being shamed and controlled by his mother. Think of what she is saying to him…. “You can’t do this right, you can’t do that right, you’re no good, you’re stupid, you’re blah, blah, blah…. See the association?
Your statement is directed right at him, it states he did something wrong, and to his ears, there is blame. Try making your request in a less personal manner, something like, “I’m trying to control the electricity bills this summer, so would you help me to close the windows in case I don’t get up to close them after you go to bed.” (Ok, I threw a little sarcasm into that one.)
There is one other approach that might work just as well. You’ll have to try it out to see how he responds. Just make the statement right up front, out in the open, with out any blame or guilt in it, but directed squarely at him, in a calm, casual voice: “Hey, close the windows when you go to bed.” Then don’t say anything else. In fact, say it as you are passing through the room on your way to do something else. This is exactly how a guy would say it to him. A direct statement but without blame, more of a reminder of responsibilities. No mushy emotions, no please, no thank you needed, in fact no reply at all required. Lets him quickly duck out of the spotlight.
My bf has actually gone so far as to say to me (granted, it was back when he was still drinking) when I said, "You would never be rude to customers the way you are to me," "I have to be nice to them, but that's being PHONY!"
This is a big deflection IMO. He knows what he is doing. But he also feels safe and comfortable enough with you to dump on you. This is child psychology at work. This does not make sense in an adult world. But he isn’t an adult. Maybe you should read up on some child psychology books to better understand him. Kids do the same things to their mothers.
One other thing… My W does this A LOT and it really pisses me off. If something is lost, or missing, she will go around asking where it is, but always in a way to paint the other person as being responsible. For instance, she will ask me “Did you move my purse?” I’ve heard this so many times that whenever she says this to me, I immediately tell he to stop accusing me of moving her purse, that not once in our marriage have I ever moved her purse, and that every time she has lost it, she has found it in a place that she put it (and this is absolutely true). I made a BIG deal out of it.
This is harsh, I know, but not so long ago she just didn’t get it. We have talked about this and now she usually (not always) tries to choose her words a little more carefully. I tell her to simply ask me if I have seen her purse, that it is missing. Do not make any implication that I have taken it because I take offense at being falsely accused. Guess what? It works. (MrsCAC, this might be an example of “pushing” things.)
My W’s way of asking, and Lil, your request to your bf, contains fault within the premise of the question. When my wife says this to me, I feel backed into a corner before I even know what is going on. It is a control tactic by her to automatically take a one-up position, to defelct the frustration she feels with herself for misplacing her purse, again. But it causes other people to begin walking on eggshells. Now that I am aware of this, I take very strong offense to it because I do not like her trying to pull this subtle power play on me. I won’t allow her to dodge her irresponsibility by throwing it on me.
I know this has to do with my issues. She tries to excuse her way of asking by saying that I am too sensitive, these are my mother issues, etc. I tell her that may be true, but this is me, you know it ticks me off, so YOU watch what you’re saying. Maybe your bf is reacting to similar issues, though he may not know how to verbalize it.
I kind of see your point, cobra, but for my statement to be analogous to your W's statement about her purse, I would have to have said, "Who left the window open while the a/c was on?" And since we're the only two humans here...
Also I didn't say, "Why did YOU leave the window open when the a/c was on?" To me THAT would be accusatory.
As for "I'm trying to keep the bills down, etc." He would see right through that as groveling, manipulative, and a pre-emptive explanation in anticipation of him snapping at me. He HATES the unnecessary explanation.
I think the way I said it was best: a simple request. He always tells me he just wants me to say things simply and not second-guess him.
He just needs to react however he wants to and eventually he may get over himself.
The purse statement was just a side comment I threw in. But I do think your bf has a lot of shame based thinking that defines him. Those are hard traits to change in an adult. Personally I don't think he'll get past them until his mother passes on.
I've been digesting this and I'm ready to reply. Call it P/A to do it here instead of face-to-face, but actually I like having my words written down. That way I don't forget anything and I don't have to worry about saying the wrong thing in the heat of the moment. If I speak what I'm feeling right now, I might say something I regret, and make it worse.
I looked up the non-violent commmunication website (courtesy of HD/MsHD) and will attempt to state my feelings based on their lists of feelings.
Its not about the technicalities. Its about my inadequate mind-reading skills.
Because we both know you really can't read my mind, I will assume you are being dismissive of my feelings through this sarcastic statement. Because we have spoken at length about my tendency in the past to expect you to "know" what I want or feel, and because I have been trying very hard do a better job of communicating my needs to you and NOT expecting you to "read my mind," I really am feeling hurt by this comment. I am angry about this comment. I am dismayed and disheartened by this flip comment.
(ford: its "quicken" that we're using...quickBOOKS is for businesses. I hope that doesn't make you feel inadequate).
Why did you write "I hope that doesn't make you feel inadequate?" What purpose does this statement serve? What exactly is your point? Because you chose to use the same word that I used to describe my feelings (I didn't find inadequate on the NVC list, so substitute insecure), I can only assume this is another effort to dismiss my feelings. I feel hurt by this statement too.
But imagine this hypothetical scenario: If she were to come home and tell me that she crashed the car, (theoretically possible, driving skills aside), I would immediately become upset. But then imagine, after I express my feelings of shock and horror at the potential negative aspects of such an event, that she actually meant "parked" the car...not "crashed".
I don't think this is a relevant analogy. I don't think you can compare common everyday words and language, words that I have been hearing pretty much my whole life, to specialized technical language that truly is as foreign as Japanese to me. I studied French for 6 years, but I can't converse in it and I really can't read it either. Why? Because I didn't start learning it until I was 12, and because I stopped using it as soon as I finished school. It's highly likely that I might mix up French words and unintentionally use wrong ones. I don't think that would be a problem if I was chatting informally with someone who knew I wasn't close to being fluent. My point is that it is MUCH less likely for me to confuse the words "parked" and "crashed" than it is for me to confuse technical words that have no concrete meaning to me and that I hear or use infrequently.
I should have *known* that she meant "parked".
You couldn't possibly know that based on the words alone. If I had emailed you, you'd have had only my written words, so you would have had to assume, at least initally, that I intended to say "crashed" and not "parked." But in your scenario, I've come home and talked to you. Not only do you have the words coming out of my mouth, you have my facial expressions, my body language, the tone of my voice, my demeanor. I did come in the house last year and tell you I crashed our truck into our car, and I was terribly upset and remorseful. I believe you even told me after the fact that you could "tell" by the sound of my voice, as I called your name, that something had happened. This was before I even told you what happened. I can assure you that you would have witnessed none of that if it was simply a case of my using the word "crashed" instead of "parked."
This is a huge personality flaw on my part, and I am at a complete loss as to how to overcome it.
Cobra already addressed this.
I bet my friends at the fire department would be rather upset if, the next time your cat is stuck up a tree, you dial 911 and yell "fire".
The words "cat," "tree," and "fire" fall into the same common-everyday-words category as "crash" and "park," so I don't find this a relevant analogy either.
I see this as more sarcasm and dimissiveness from you. It generates more hurt and anger in me. Cemar (and anyone else who is reading this), if you have said anything like this to your LD wife in the past, STOP NOW. It does not help. It will not spark desire in her. It will push her away. It has been pushing me away for a very long time. But I'm not going to just swallow it anymore. I'm pushing back.
