New To Piecing III

[COG]

BND,

Thanks for your post. There's very little doubt in my mind that the final puzzle piece will be found. But there's still a little shred of doubt. I'm moving forward without fear, without neediness, without a plan for the future. Living one day, one moment at a time. WHAT A RELIEF THAT IS! I don't have to solve all the worlds problems, or my W's problems, or even my problems. Just accept reality, find joy in the moments, keep moving forward, and it is amazing how good life really is. It's so easy to become etangled in the doom, gloom, fear, selfishness, anger, anxiety, worry, resentment, blah blah blah. Those things will anchor you fast, make you stuck spinning around in circles. We'll stay stuck until we cut the line, and drift with the flow of the current.

God Bless,

COG

[WCW]

COG, sorry I encouraged you down the wrong path and the flirting and innuendos didn't have a good effect. It was a huge 180, too much for your W to handle, but if there is a positive in this now you know that. MHO, your approach was too abrupt. I know, I am late bringing this all up but I was gone last week and wanted to comment on it. If I tried with H the things you did, it would go bad too, except in a rare instance. Little things work though, just a one line remark, back off let it settle, just a touch, back off let it settle.

It is great how you can focus and recognize all the positive and wonderful pieces of your life. Getting all those pieces in place is the only way to the pieces of your M to fit together too. To me it sounds like you aren't an adult crude boy any longer, you have made the change to a gentleman. Nice.

[COG]

WCW,

I hear ya! It was a good learning experience though, and I believe it pushed the threshold a little further than it was. I'm not afraid of her like I have been for a long time. And even though she did'nt like me pursuing for sex, what I learned was that she liked the subtle flirting. We have'nt done that in years. She's actually initiated it several times in the last week. Verbal stuff, not physical, but it's new! She's been teasing me about stuff. Not poking fun at me, but more of a teasing thing. I like it, and I give it back to her.

So it's an ebb and flow kind of thing. We've got to get out of our comfort zone and push the envelope sometimes. Then step back, consider the outcome, and follow the positive's. The fruit of my struggle these past two weeks? We've begun to tease each other. And we all know where a little teasing can lead.

God Bless,

COG

[frank_D]

And even though she did'nt like me pursuing for sex, what I learned was that she liked the subtle flirting. We have'nt done that in years. She's actually initiated it several times in the last week. Verbal stuff, not physical, but it's new! She's been teasing me about stuff. Not poking fun at me, but more of a teasing thing. I like it, and I give it back to her.

Sorry, I lost track of your thread and didn't realize the last was locked till today.

I read your posts, when did you start 'pursuing for sex?'

I thought the 'plan' was to flirt, tease and be 'unavailable'?

It sounds like that part was working and is still having some effect. I wouldn't sweat the 'lack of sexual attraction' she claims. I do agree with AmyC, why is she here if she doesn't want to make it work? She's 'entitled' in some way. Not!

In the end, you can say "I was mean, etc," and she can say "You owe me..." however there is nothing written anywhere that says you are supposed to remain in a marriage without intimacy forever.

I have an uncle who lives that life and he's you to a 'T'. He's stuck in his life of quiet desperation wishing he had a normal relationship.

Stick with the flirting, and get some 'special' movies. One of which I reccomend is 'Don Juan Demarco' (Johnny Depp) which is romantic and funny at the same time. Very 'stimulating' say some women.

And I wonder if she is physically in need of some help. Perhaps hormone levels or other issues?

So it's an ebb and flow kind of thing. We've got to get out of our comfort zone and push the envelope sometimes. Then step back, consider the outcome, and follow the positive's. The fruit of my struggle these past two weeks? We've begun to tease each other. And we all know where a little teasing can lead.

Yup. The principles office.

[WCW]

what I learned was that she liked the subtle flirting. We have'nt done that in years. She's actually initiated it several times in the last week. Verbal stuff, not physical, but it's new! She's been teasing me about stuff. Not poking fun at me, but more of a teasing thing. I like it, and I give it back to her.

Gosh COG, you didn't say that before! That's great! wonderful! it's a starting point and it will build. Man, here I was feeling rotten that it was all bad results. Go s-l-o-w.

You're an outdoorsy guy, you know cooking in a Dutch Oven takes longer than a gas flame.

[COG]

I read your posts, when did you start 'pursuing for sex?'
I thought the 'plan' was to flirt, tease and be 'unavailable'?

Well, I crossed the line a time or two, that was enough for her to become uncomfortable. I tend to push for the boundary lines, and then just take one more step over the line. I'm also alot better at scurrying back across the line before getting my ass shot off.

Bottom line, I'm not good at playing emotional games, never have been. She can take me or leave me just like I am. What I have learned though is that I need to show more of who I really am, so she can make a wiser choice. The energetic, funny, fearless, guy is starting to come back out of his shell. That's something that I control.

That's part of the reason I don't blame my W for loosing her feelings for me. Because the romantic, fun loving, charasmatic guy that she M, was not the same guy she ended up M to. What she ended up with was a half hearted, selfish, controlling, judgemental, dork.

Now my challenge is to bring the first guy back to the surface where he belongs. That's in MY control, but I have'nt been able to complete the transformation yet. My guess is that when I finally get that part right, she'll be standing there with open arms. Right now she's not settling for less, and I really can not blame her.

I wouldn't sweat the 'lack of sexual attraction' she claims.

I don't, I'm enjoying life too much right now to worry about it. Besides, she's gonna melt some day Frank, we both know that. But I've got more work to do on ME first.

In the end, you can say "I was mean, etc," and she can say "You owe me..." however there is nothing written anywhere that says you are supposed to remain in a marriage without intimacy forever.

Forever is a very long time, I prefer to stay in the moment, one day at a time. I'll have NO DOUBT when and if it's time to end this M and move on. Until then, I'm in this 100%, leaving nothing on the table, giving all, and risking all.

He's stuck in his life of quiet desperation wishing he had a normal relationship.

"quiet desparation"? That does'nt even come close to describing me or MY life. Here's some words that better describe my life: faithful, determined, dangerous, creative, courageous, unselfish, thorough, exciting, fun, joyful, thankful, and fulfilled. In control of another's body and or mind, NO! But that's not my goal in life.

Stick with the flirting, and get some 'special' movies. One of which I reccomend is 'Don Juan Demarco' (Johnny Depp) which is romantic and funny at the same time. Very 'stimulating' say some women.

That's romantic pursuit. Nope, I'm not going there for now. Some women may find it stimulating, probably the ones without men, those wanting new men, or those fantasizing about the man they wished they had. Movies portray the fairytale, we need to live the reality.

And I wonder if she is physically in need of some help. Perhaps hormone levels or other issues?

That's a possibility, but if it is, she'll fix that on her own. She's a grown woman and has her own mind about things, and she's got a doctor also. I gave up trying to fix her a long time ago and life just kept getting better and better ever since. I'm not about to go back down that cheeseless tunnel.

Thanks for the input Frank.

God Bless,

COG

[frank_D]

I didn't mean to imply that I think you were in 'quiet desperation', my uncle is though. it's pretty said.

Overall, I think you are doing really well, the last few weeks of being flirty and such opened your eyes to the situation more.

You gotta try something new, evaluate the results and then try again until you know you've exhausted all avenues. You are doing that.

I think you should rent the movie. It isn't pursuit, it's a funny movie.

[25yearsmlc]

Dear COG,

sorry you're in this sitch, but your PMA is so good I have only sympathy and not pity for you. Know what I mean?

I read your post under the "Divorce Busted" section I think. SO, I don't know the in betweens. Or the physical side of things when the M was good in her eyes. I mean no offense when I ask this, but, does your W think the SL was ever good? If so, maybe she does have some physiological parts to this if it has no apparent cause. You seemed to imply, that your w feels (like most of us women) that emotional/romantic/physical intimacy are all entwined. So, if she sees that you are a good man who loves her, what's up? I mean Is your wife able to articulate at all, what is no longer there for her to "feel it again"? Does she believe love is at least partly, a choice?


Wish I could advise, but don't have enough specifics. Maybe you have other posts around. Also, despite my being a groovy enlightened feminist and all, the fact is we females (maybe guys too?) DO have some life changes and there are days I am cognitively aware that I must be having a hormonal shift b/c some emotion will flare up without apparent cause--so I try to ride out the moment by emotionally standing in the doorframe, waiting for the storm to pass over. I have had at least 2 friends say they went through "crazy sexless/No libido" times they cannot explain now, except to say "hormones..."??? One of them had it last a couple YEARS before getting on meds (I think estrogen, but could have been ADs) and feeling better. The other I think had issues with her husband's weight, or her own, or whatever. Both got past the issues, or through them.

Any warning signs that lead from being a Div Busted to a 2nd go round at the craziness wheel? Children's ages? Like I said, I just don't have any advice at this point without enough info, and sometimes I don't know what to say to a good man trying hard to be loving and kind, in your sitch anyway. Sorry.
keep on keeping on-
j-

[COG]

25years,

I mean no offense when I ask this, but, does your W think the SL was ever good?

Well she admit's that it took her a long time to get comfortable having sex with me. But we NEVER had any issues until post bomb, ten years into M.

Is your wife able to articulate at all, what is no longer there for her to "feel it again"? Does she believe love is at least partly, a choice?

She does'nt believe the "love is a choice" thing at all. She needs to have certain "feelings". She can't really articulate it, believe me I've tried to get her to articulate for six years now. It ain't happening. I just have to trust her on that one. After all said and done, she just might want it to be HER choice, instead of my begging, or manipulating her.

Any warning signs that lead from being a Div Busted to a 2nd go round at the craziness wheel?

Our D IS still busted, I don't consider this a second go around, not nearly. We've both had second thoughts, but we're open and honest with each other about it, and I'm open here about it. How many people have second thoughts about their seemingly perfect M's, and never admit it, like 99.9%? M is a lifetime commitment, through hills and valleys. We're just on a sidehill right now.

So, if she sees that you are a good man who loves her, what's up?

I don't know for sure but I have a new theory. I remember once when I was a lot younger, my brothers and I were trying to load this wild ass cow into a horse trailer. This friggin cow was crazy. We had two ropes on her, and a couple of guy's with 2x4's, and we could NOT get that mother into the trailer. After several cowboy attempts, some broken equipment, a couple near death experiences, we decided to take a break and ponder the sitch. So me being the smartest of the group, came up with an idea. Let's put a flake of hay in there and leave a little trail. We'll sit back have a beer and watch. So we set up a little blind, popped a couple beers and waited. It took about 5 minutes and that stupid old crazy cow starts eating the hay, and walks right into the trailer and bam, we shut the door behind her. She went ballistic, just about jumped through the roof of that old trailer, but she was caught.

So what I'm gonna do now is to put some hay out, pop a beer and take a break. I'll let ya'll know when she's in the trailer.

God Bless,

COG

[Heywyre]

Are you calling your W a wild ass cow? Better be careful with that one, you might get a hoof in the crotch - lol