THANKS for writing today. Don't know if you'll see this reply before of after your trip, but either way, HAVE OR HOPE YOU HAD A WONDERFUL TIME!!!!
As always, thanks for your wonderful encouragement and advice.
I am going out with a girlfriend tonight for appetizers and a movie. Am looking forward to it.
Regarding Vegas trip, H already knows I had that trip planned, so he'll know where I'm going, but I can still "work it" a little, as you suggested.
What are your thoughts regarding me working really hard on the business right now to add to the "she's too good to lose" attraction to me? Do you think my doing really well in the business and working on showing my enjoyment for it will be a good step?
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but you can attract them...but again, don't make that your focus because then you won't be yourself...
Lin, I'm confused on this. This whole journey I'm going on feels like I'm NOT being myself, if that makes sense??? It feels like I'm trying to find a better me, but if I'm just being my old self, THAT is what is NOT attractive to him right now. So I HAVE to change, which I know is what I want and need to do, but change means not being who I was anymore, right?
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PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD DON'T GO THERE!!!!...I don't care what he said this will backfire...it is best NOT to have anyone that is close to H...or even knows him....for your confidant
Lin, I was not referring to actually telling this other person what is going on with H and I. I have no plans to EVER tell ANYONE (friends, family, etc.) about this situation - it will make it too uncomfortable when we do get back together, and I know that. So, no, I don't want to tell anyone about it. I was more wondering since this person seems to somehow pull H and I together a little bit if there is some way that I can capitalize on that WITHOUT telling this other person what is going on. I was just looking for some ideas, or whether that was even a good idea.
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and just enjoy the "natural" effect this person has on him....and hope it isn't because H thinks he knows all
H and I have already told each other that we have not told anyone what is going on. H said it was okay for me to tell whoever I wanted, just that he would appreciate knowing if I did tell someone so that H knew that that person knew. So, I have definitely not told anyone, and if H is telling the truth, he hasn't either.
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I also think a good goal for you right now would be to mark the calendar with a date for 6 months...then promise yourself that you will not discuss disolving the business or splitting the business with H at all during this time
This is a good idea, but when I read that "6 months," my heart just sickens... I think I need to do shorter goals for now and then keep building on them. And, at this point, I guess my preference on the business is not to think of it in terms of a time limit... I think I'll know when I've had enough and can't take this anymore if we haven't reconciled. At that point, I'll have to decide how to deal with it. Does that make sense? For now, I think I'll feel better if I just completely let it go...
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don't think you are going to gain any points if it comes to this by forcing the issue for him to sell all his properties because of your feelings about him sharing your dream with someone else...and I don't think a judge would buy it either...
I'm not trying to justify my feelings here, but I guess the important thing is that I know in my own mind the reasons for my feelings, and I think H understands/would understand why I feel the way I do, and at the end of the day, he may even feel the same way. BTW, just FYI, these aren't HIS properties - they are all OURS, so we obviously would have to make a joint decision. Anyway, there is no point in worrying about this right now. I feel like I just need to work hard on letting all of these thoughts go for now and just pray everything works out and there will be none of this to have to deal with.
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Also...I am curious...you talk about H, H's parents...but do you have family???...brothers, sisters, parents....and are you close with them?
I am extremely close to my parents as well. My mom is truly my best friend. And they love and adore H with all of their hearts. That is another reason this is all so hard. Both of our parents have been married for I think 40 years now. We're very close to our families, and although ultimately we know they just want us to be happy, the thought of us not being together and also putting them through that and the thought of me not being H's parents' "daughter" and H's siblings' sibling like I have been kills me... That is admittedly one of the hardest things about this.
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I share my experiences with you (and others) not for you to feel sorry for me but so you can see that I do speak from where you are....
Thanks, Lin. I understand what you're saying. I'm glad that you have used your hurtful experiences to grow, and I hope to follow - no, I WILL follow in your footsteps. I, too, look forward to the day when I can look back on all of this and see the growth I've made in myself.
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and please take things slow, easy, and with patience...
Please, please help me with this, guys. I just feel SO INCREDIBLY IMPATIENT. I'm so tired of hurting. I know you know this and what it feels like. Just please keep encouraging me... I just want this to end...
Being yourself is relative to WHO YOU WANT TO BE....you can be yourself with positive attributes that put forward or with negative ones...does that make sense...I made a lot of changes but I am still ME...I did not make changes that I didn't want for myself...
Glad you didn't mean to tell that guy anything...I misunderstood on that one, sorry...but just let things occur as they should...don't try and force things with this guy...keep it all natural as it would normally be...
What I meant by "his" properties was speaking in terms of if they were divided...I do understand your feelings but again that is jealousy and it isn't good...my H bought a brand new BMW after he left...we had never had a new car...I wanted him to sell it back at a loss because I knew it was NOT for me but for HER or to impress other women...it was my jealousy...and I didn't want to have other women riding around in his new car when he didn't do that or me...I know this doesn't sound rational now but at the time I totally felt justified...so I understand your feelings on the properties...I just don't think it is fair...my opinion from a more sane place in my life now...
Set whatever goals you need...and if you ever feel the impulse that you are "done"....and I did this on several occasions, take a week or two weeks before acting...just to make sure....because so many times I acted on my impulse and it wasn't good...i was confused and emotional....or just not really thinking past my nose....so set your goals...but never act out of impulse...vent here, journal here...someone will help you
Ok...my day is passing and I have so much to do...trying not to do my "usual" wig out and start being a bitch to everyone as I am stressing to get ready..too many vacations started out with me on a rampage because things weren't done like I WANTED!...so I just need to breath and focus today...once I get on the plane in the morning I will be OK....
Tam...take care of YOU and I am so glad you are close to your family and are going out more...I pulled away from mine because I didn't want to talk and I couldn't hold it in...I am sorry I did this now....we are still close but not like it was...oh well...live and learn
Aloha all....I will probably check back in before bed tonight...but if not....have a great week while I am in Hawaii having the dream vacation I have always wanted!
I KNOW I'm not supposed to worry/care about what/why H is doing, but will someone please give me some insight from an outsider's perspective on the following. I know NO ONE can really know what/why he's doing these things, but will you let me know what you think?
1.) It seems like H is sometimes messing up the bed at the office to make it appear that he's slept at the office when I know he hasn't (he's wearing different clothes that I know he doesn't have at the office). So, he's either spending part of the night with her and part of the night at the office (why would he do that?), or he's trying to deliberately throw me off for some reason. He never did this before. He knew that I knew he was staying with her, so why put on an act? So he wasn't doing that before. There were only a few times that it appeared that he had slept at the office, and other than that, although he told me otherwise (that he was staying at the job site or something - yeah, right), I just assumed he was staying with OW. Any ideas why he would be possibly starting up this charade now? I HAVEN'T said word one about where he's been staying since the night we got back from the trip, so it's not like something has been said or done that would have caused this... The night we got back, he said he was going to take his suitcase from the trip with him to the office and "live out of it" for a few days. That was the only thing that was said. I asked him if he would come back home that night, and he said he'd see, and I asked him if he would start coming home sometimes, and he said yes, but he hasn't. That was the last conversation we had about this and since then, nothing has been said or done. Thoughts? He also told me this morning something about "when I was at the office last night, I couldn't print something..." He wanted me to look at his printer. Well, when I did, I saw that he had tried to print this document this morning, not last night. I was at the office pretty late last night, and he didn't show up before I left. But the bed was all messed up again, and the light was on in my office where the bed is... Again, it's like he's deliberately trying to throw me off. And I know you're probably thinking that he maybe doesn't want to hurt me and/or doesn't want to deal with my questions, but my point is that HE NEVER DID THIS BEFORE and I HAVEN'T BEEN QUESTIONING him about it at all since the night we got back - not ONE word about it. Before, it was just understood that I was not asking where he was staying, and it was what it was. Why would he start a charade now? I don't get it... Do you think that maybe he is thinking about coming home in the somewhat near future and thinks it will be easier on me if I think he hasn't been staying with her and then immediately coming back to me?
2.) What do you think about the fact that I've now basically told H what my feelings are about possibly not staying in business with him if we aren't together anymore as a couple and that he is still fairly frequently bringing up future business plans with me/us? I would say daily at least one thing is said by him about future business plans with me that is NOT provoked by me whatsoever. Since he now knows my potential feelings on this, do you think it's just "habit" that he's saying these things? Does he not know what else to do besides talk about future plans with us? He really doesn't HAVE to talk about it or make plans with me. It's HONESTLY not like I've asked him about future plans.... I was before, and I've been trying really hard to not do that on purpose. He'll say things like what I told you about how much this investment could make for "us," which could still mean us separately. He also said that we might need to move our business location to a different building, which obviously I wouldn't want to do that if we're not going to keep the business together... He talks about future properties WE'RE going to buy... He said the other night that he would have to drive me by some properties he was looking at (he hasn't offered to take me to look at properties since before November even)... Is there reason for me to put hope into these actions? Are these baby steps? Is this his way of telling me without saying it that he hopes everything is going to be all right, in time?
Again, I KNOW YOU'RE GOING TO YELL AT ME for worrying/thinking about what/why he's doing these things, but I can't stop thinking about them and have been worried to ask you because I know you'll tell me not to worry about it... But will you PLEASE give me any insights you have on these issues from the outside looking in? Baby steps are important to watch for, and if you think either of these things may be baby steps, I want to find strength in that... I promise I won't get overexcited or anxious about it - I've made that mistake too many times before and it hurts too much....
Tam...there is a goal for you...who knows what your H is doing...or if he is spending anytime with OW...for all you know he is trying to sleep in his car....or at another friends....who knows!!!
YOU MUST LET IT GO...
Those other things might be baby steps...time will tell...IF YOU GIVE IT TIME!!!!
I am cruising the Islands...4 ports, 7 days....we are flying over and flying back so we will have 100 hours in port...allowing us lots of time to explore and not lots of time at sea!
I am so excited....almost packed and ready to pack the car...we leave at 4 am to head to LAX....I will drive since this is only one hour earlier then I get up for work usually...and I drive in the wee dark mornings also...H is a late sleeper...he might wake up when we get him on the plane!
I have done good today...kept my calm even though H invited his friend over to play tennis!!!....then says he is tired with all he has had to do and wants to wait to pack up the rest of his stuff!!!
We did our last minute shopping for things...as things usually go my period is due to start during our cruise...and on the day we scheduled a snorkeling trip....but I am hoping with all my hope that it will delay or not start so quickly...sometimes it starts slow...sometimes it comes on fast and furious....it skewed out of it's regular pattern about 4 months ago...after I booked....but I refuse to let this interfere...after all the commercials say I can fly, horseback ride, sky dive, swim, and jump tall buildings in a single bound, lol....
I am already planning a few romantic dinners with H and I...he said he could go for that too...I hope that during this time away I can convey to him some of my emotional/physical needs that I feel have been a bit neglected since his return...but I have to pick the right time...and I will have to see how this goes...
Well the valium is starting to kick in...and I need my beauty sleeps....so Aloha everyone...and please be good while I am gone...DB your butts off, okay?
Lin, I just got home from my girls' night. I am completely numb and literally shaking to the bone right now and want to post this first post very quickly just in case there's a chance you'll get this before you leave in the morning...
Lin, you will understand this when you see my next post, whether you see my next post before or after you get home... I pray you'll at least see this post before you go...
"IT'S NEVER TOO LATE FOR A MIRACLE".... Please, Lin, for ME, hold this thought next to your heart with all of your might and don't let go... and have "FAITH" in all of these things you have decided you want to "FIGHT FOR" on this trip and in your marriage... FIGHT FOR THEM!!!
It's never too late for a miracle... It's never too late for a miracle...
Aloha, my dear friend. THANK YOU... and DB *YOUR* butt off...
I've been just laying down in our bed for about an hour now - for the first little while overwhelmed with body-wrenching tears... then, silent, quiet thought for the rest of the time...
I am still deep in thought and feel like I've had some sort of outer body experience tonight and feel like I need to get back into my thoughts but wanted to share my night with you. Please give me some feedback.
The friend I went out with tonight is someone I met from taking my pets to the vet a few years ago. She was the veterinarian technician. Unfortunately, I had a pet that got really sick, and I had to take him to the vet at least once a week for months until he finally passed away. So I saw my now friend quite a bit during that time.
After my pet passed away, I don't really remember now how our first contact occurred, but somehow she called me and asked if I wanted to get together for lunch. I remember thinking at the time that it was kind of strange because I didn't really know her that well, but I thought it was a nice gesture. So we've gone out to lunch a few times since then. We are by no means close friends and don't talk on the phone/e-mail or anything. We just get together once every few months for lunch and catch up.
Fast forward to a few months ago... This was I believe when I was DBing after the initial crisis and was working on reconnecting with old friends, etc. I called her to ask her if she wanted to get together to catch up. She said she would but that she was having some serious marital problems, hardly getting any sleep, etc., and wasn't sure if she would be good company right then. I told her I would love to get together with her still, and we did.
She told me about her marital difficulties, and as you know, I didn't say a word about mine. It was so weird to be asking/listening to her difficulties while my own heart was breaking as well. I wanted to support her because I knew and felt her pain first-hand, and I tried to learn from her experiences as well. She told me she wasn't sure if she wanted to stay married and was really having a hard time.
I saw her again in January I believe it was. Everything was going much better in her R, and she seemed so happy and hopeful that everything was going to work out.
So fast forward again to tonight. So we decided we would go out for appetizers and a movie. She offered to look into what movies are playing. I hardly ever go to the movies (maybe once of twice a year) and have absolutely no idea what is playing right now.
So she tells me about a couple of movies she has narrowed it down to, a comedy and another one about the Zodiac killer. She said she was more in the mood for something mindless, so we agreed we'd see the comedy.
We met for appetizers, and I got there a few minutes before her. When I walked into the restaurant, the Daughtry song was on "Over You." Don't know if any of you are familiar with that song, but it talks about getting over someone who has broken your heart. I just got the CD a few weeks ago and love it and have been listening to it a lot. Shivers ran up and down my spine when I heard it on the speakers. I know, just a coincidence, right? But wait...
So the waiter is a young guy but kind of cute. So I purposely am really nice to him and innocently flirtacious - just working on being more outgoing and friendly and fun. He was nice back to us - nothing like he was flirting with us or anything. He was just nice, and I found myself thinking how nice it was to have a man just be NICE to me... Again, nothing big, but wait...
So my friend and I are discussing the movies again and the times, and she says she was looking more into the movies and found another one with Sandra Bullock in it about her husband dying but then she wakes up the next morning and he's not dead and she has to figure out why. That was all she really said about the movie. She said the comedy got a bad review in something she was reading but that it still might be good... So she told me to pick, and I chose the Sandra Bullock movie. It's call Premonition.
So we had a great chat over dinner. I told her about all of the things I'm working on (girls' night, going to Vegas, bowling, etc.) So we talk about her, and she tells me that she and her H have decided to separate - not D yet, but just separate. It took me completely off guard.
She proceeded to tell me how the last few months have been really nice with H and that they have gotten along really well, but she was wanting during these few months to work on building a deeper emotional connection with him, not simply just "get along better" with him. That hasn't happened it sounds like. So they just went on a short few day getaway together, her intent being to make sure she felt like she was making the right decision to split from H.
She said they had a really nice time away but that even so, it solidified in her mind that she wanted a D. She approached H with this, and I guess he was blind-sided. He thought everything was "better" because they have been getting along so much better.
So they talked, and he isn't ready to give up, so they agreed to separate physically for a while and see what happens. He is going to move to another state while she stays here.
So their situation is completely oppostive of H and I, right? She wants to go, he wants to stay... So I'm being supportive and listening to her and also asking questions to help me understand HER frame of mind to maybe also help me with H's frame of mind. Again, just a coincidence? But wait...
She was so calm and at peace when she was telling me about this. I again didn't tell her what is going on with us. I asked her questions about their situation and what had happened to help me learn and understand again and to of course be supportive of her and listen and be a friend. So I found myself thinking that that is exactly what I want with H - to build a deeper emotional connection, to rekindle the passion, that deep love for one another... So by this point I'm starting to feel like this is more than just a coincidence that I am sitting across the table from this person tonight...
So she is also a fairly confident woman, and she was so strong tonight. She didn't seem upset outwardly about what was going on. Again, I'm working on my confidence right now, and I'm hanging out with someone who I feel is confident, not for that reason, but I just find myselt noticing how strong and confident she seems about all of this and just witnessing how she is acting. Again, coincidence? But wait...
So then we go to the movie. I don't know if any of you have seen it, so I don't want to spoil it for you. But if you haven't seen it yet, GO SEE IT! It was like I was looking in on my own life. It was so eerie that I was physically uncomfortable watching it. At first, when I started to get a taste for what it was about, I felt bad for my friend - I was worried that it was going to upset HER and felt bad that I hadn't thought about that before picking this movie from the two. But then I remembered that SHE picked this as a choice and I remembered how strong she seems right now.
So the movie progresses, and then the feelings start not only pouring out for my friend and hoping she is not crawling out of her skin to feeling my own out of body experience. I'm literally thinking, "what is going on here?" If you've seen the movie or if you do see it, believe me, most people on this board will relate to it so much and probably feel as blown away as I was. And she came to dinner tonight with not even having given this movie as a "choice" earlier today, and then I subsequently pick this movie without having any idea what it is "really" about... Coincidence? Not so much anymore...
Again, I don't want to give away the movie, but Sandra talks to a pastor, and they talk about having "faith" in things and Sandra says she's not sure what to "fight" for with her faith. She's struggling with having drifted away from her H and feeling like roommates to fighting for what they used to have. The pastor tells her that "it's never too late for a miracle" referring to whatever she decides to have faith in, it's never too late to believe in it so much that it can happen.
So the end of the movie is a twist of all twists. I won't give it away, but let's just say I was telling myself just to breathe and stay calm... I didn't want to turn into a basket case in front of my friend.
So the movie ends, and we leave, and I cry a bit as we're walking out and she asks me if I'm all right. Well, now I've got to figure out a way to not let her know that I'm about to have a melt down. As I mentioned, I was feeling equally as bad for her and worried that the movie hit too close to home for her right now. So I told her I was worried about her and asked if she was okay. She said she was fine, and wanted to know if *I* was okay. I said yes. She said she is stronger than she lets on... But she lets on being strong...
So I quickly pulled myself together. It was kind of awkward, but I made light conversation as we went back to our cars, and then we parted.
When I knew I was far enough away that there was no possibility of her seeing me, I just started shaking and crying as I drove home.
This whole night is no longer just a string of coincidences... There is something more at work here. I feel so strange that I can't even explain it...
So after I calmed myself down, I just have been thinking and reflecting...
What do I want to fight for? This is the first time I've been honest with myself and not pushed the thought out of my mind that maybe this M isn't the best thing for ME... And that thought scares the hell out of me...
And it's also given me a stronger message than ever that if I do really want this M to work out, I just need to have "faith" in it and want it so much that I have to do all of the right things to get it back, and that a miracle can happen...
So obviously because of my strong conviction in M and my sheer will power to give this everything I can, I feel like I still want to fight (I think???), but I also know we HAVE to build something stronger than we've ever had so that *I* feel fulfilled... When I walked in the door tonight, I got out a piece of paper and wrote on it "It's never too late for a miracle" and taped it to my bathroom mirror...
And once I do decide what I want to fight for, if I just believe in whatever that is and CHOOSE to have faith in it, just like you choose to love or hope, it can come true - it's never too late for a miracle.
So I'm rehashing our whole R since we met now, thinking about the good times and the challenges, thinking about how fulfilled I've been in some ways and how unfulfilled in others and how long that has lasted and whether the unfulfilling things are things that can be fixed and if they can't whether I want to live the rest of my life like that yet believing that anything can be fixed if I just have faith in it...
Further, one of the first times myself and this friend did go out to lunch, she was telling me then that she was having some challenges in her M, but nothing like now, and she asked me for some advice (this was obviously way back before this current situation was occurring with H and me). I remember telling her that one of the best pieces of advice I could offer her was that I truly meant it when I said I would love him forever and that I would never give up and would always fight for our commitment - no matter what. I told her that there obviously is a line that couldn't be crossed, AND I REMEMBER thinking at the time about what I would ever do if H cheated on me...
So I know this sounds so weird, and while I believe in God, I'm not religious per se, but I've prayed more in the last few months than I ever have asking for guidance with this whole thing. And I know it seems strange, but as I said, this just feels like too much to be just a coincidence. I feel like there is some sort of higher power at work here.
Now I'm just struggling with what to do with all of this... I am overwhelmed with both feeling so dang strange with this whole sequence of events to then accepting that it happened to me for a reason and that I have to figure out what I'm supposed to learn from this and get out of it... Regardless of what I decide, I will never forget that "it's never too late for a miracle." If I want H back, I can do it if I have faith and if I can make myself be someone that also makes HIM happy. It's never too late for a miracle...
So you probably all think I've lost my mind, and maybe I have... I feel like I've just been through some sort of life-changing event that will never be forgotten and will forever change me.
What am I supposed to get out of all this? Why is this happening to me?
I've never felt so moved by anything and so powerful and confused all at once...
What does this all mean????
I have to reflect some more now and get some rest... I am in shock and can't believe what has happened to me tonight...
Thanks for listening. I would really appreciate any feedback you guys have...
