He said he's seeing someone new

[phoenix23]

A punching bag seems like such a good idea. I'm sure I'd probably hurt myself if I tried using one, but it would almost be worth it just for the stress relief.

Just out of curiosity, Ophelia, would you rather know who the OW was and what she looks like, or are you do you think you are better off not knowing?

I'm glad your H apologized for not replying to your email. I would take that to mean that he still feels some level of accountability towards you, which is a good thing.

Hope your sore muscles feel better soon and best of luck with your lunch for the in-laws! I admire you for pursuing your relationship with them - I was quite close to H's parents, and I know that they are totally horrified by what he has done here and want nothing to do with OW, but I still feel terribly awkward calling them up or stopping by to visit them.

[Ophelia]

A punching bag seems like such a good idea. I'm sure I'd probably hurt myself if I tried using one, but it would almost be worth it just for the stress relief.

My hands were kinda sore after the first time I used it, but I'm getting the hang of it now I think. Seeing as how my arm and ab muscles were sore after using it, I think I'm probably doing something right. I've been trying to do 20sec fast boxing, then 10sec slow and so on for 3 continuous minutes, (I read on some website that that's how boxers train to build up muscle or something like that), but sometimes I get into the rhythm of the punch combinations and just start going faster and harder, uttering some synonym for "bitch" or "bastard" with each punch , and all of a sudden I realise I've been going hard for a full minute. I'm not a violent person by any means, but sometimes, with the right motivation, you just get in the zone.

Just out of curiosity, Ophelia, would you rather know who the OW was and what she looks like, or are you do you think you are better off not knowing?

Well some pages back I was ranting on about how I "needed" to know, and someone pointed out that I don't really "need" to know, I "want" to know. I only found out OW's name by pure chance. On the one hand, I've love to get a look at my "replacement", just to see what's so damn special about her and why she's apparently so much more worthy of H's time than I am. I guess my only motivation for wanting to know is so that I can judge her, which isn't really all that productive if I think about it like that. It'd also give me something to visualise when I'm punching the bag.

On the other hand, I know from MIL's experience with FIL's A that she did see OW, actually had a confrontation with her when she showed up at their house one day, and I recall one night, probably more than a year after the A had ended, and after a few glasses of wine, MIL divulged that she still sees OW's face everywhere she goes. Knowing exactly who she was kinda made MIL paranoid. Maybe she still has moments like that even now, years after the fact. Not so sure I want to end up like that.

It's a topic I struggle with on almost a daily basis, to be honest.

I'm glad your H apologized for not replying to your email. I would take that to mean that he still feels some level of accountability towards you, which is a good thing.

Yeah, that's a point, hadn't really thought of it like that. I got another reply, still casual, chatty type stuff. It's too bad it had to be prompted by the necessity of him having to get the marriage certificate, because that kinda puts a dampner on the whole exchange. I guess he could have just let the L send me a letter asking for it though, so he didn't actually have to email me about it, but he still chose to. I guess that's something.

Speaking of the L, I got a great big wad of forms with little "sign here" stickers all over them in the mail today. I've gotta sign them and return them. Doesn't have a deadline on it though. And miracles can happen because this time they finally spelled my name right! *falls off her chair in shock*

Hope your sore muscles feel better soon and best of luck with your lunch for the in-laws! I admire you for pursuing your relationship with them - I was quite close to H's parents, and I know that they are totally horrified by what he has done here and want nothing to do with OW, but I still feel terribly awkward calling them up or stopping by to visit them.

Muscles still sore, but not quite as much as yesterday.

It's really awkward trying to keep a relationship with the ILs. There are times that I love MIL more than my own mum, so I really don't want to lose the relationship I have with her. But at the same time, if H is taking OW home to their place for a roast dinner once a week like we used to do, then it's almost like I've already just been replaced, and if this R keeps on keeping on, then I'd hate for MIL to be in the position where she's gotta be torn between maintaining a relationship with me, and also trying to be welcoming to OW at the same time. Do I have a right to keep popping up and saying, "Please don't forget all about me?" for all time, or does there come a point where I'm just not allowed to have contact with anyone in his family anymore, because I've been replaced by OW? I was thinking about this stuff on the bus today and started to feel tears well up in my eyes. Thank God for sunglasses!

Honestly, I'm really quite nervous about lunch with the ILs tomorrow, to the point where I almost feel sick. Ugh! Someone make it all go away!

[Ophelia]

ILs have been and gone. Was nowhere near as stressful as I thought it'd be of course. I always work myself up about things like this and they never turn out as bad as I'd imagined.

I was telling them about my workouts this week, and mentioned the punching bag, telling them I'd gotten it for my birthday and joked that it was like exercise and therapy in one, at which they both actually laughed. FIL actually asked, "And does this punching bag have a name?" I replied with a wry smile that sometimes it does...depends on my mood, and at that they both laughed louder than they did before. I'm not talking a polite little half giggle, I'm talking a real laugh. So I kinda got a kick outta the fact that they got a kick outta it. Wonder if they'll mention it to H.

MIL loved the broms I got for her and her friend on ebay. She said that they're planning on paying another visit to a brom nursery they'd been to a month or so ago, it's like a wholesale nursery where you've actually gotta make an appointment to go along. They loved it last time, and the owner has invited them back, and MIL said she'd let me know when they were going so that I could come along too. She reckons I'll really love it. So that should be good.

They mentioned a birthday party they'd had for two of FIL's kids, (they're twins, now in their 50s) last Sunday, and filled me in on some of the more interesting happenings. I asked MIL if she could give me a list of everyone's b'days because the only reason I've remembered them in the past is because there's usually a family b'day party. She said she'd make a copy of her list for me.

So I'm gonna send belated b'day cards to my BIL and SIL, and then it's one of my nephew's b'day today (he's turning 2), so I'll send a little something to him, and then it's one of my niece's b'day next Tues (she's turning 8), so I'll send her a little something as well. Lots of cards to buy!

MIL and FIL will be going to visit my niece on Tues as there's gonna be a little family party for her, and I came *this close* to asking if I might be able to tag along so that I could see everyone, (seeing as how I didn't get to see them at Christmas), because being a Tues, H obviously wouldn't be going. I didn't want to put her on the spot though, so I didn't ask. I'll just post a little present instead.

I sent H an email last night. Not a reply to his last one, but I was checking out the forums at midlifeclub.com and saw this thread which made me laugh. In his last email, H mentioned one night when he had so much work to do that he was at the office til 2am! So I just sent him the pic from that thread with a subject line of, "Are you tired of your high stress job?" and in the body of the email I just said, "You know, it could always be worse..." and signed it with a and attached the pic. Don't expect a reply, but hopefully it'll at least make him smile.

[phoenix23]

Do I have a right to keep popping up and saying, "Please don't forget all about me?" for all time, or does there come a point where I'm just not allowed to have contact with anyone in his family anymore, because I've been replaced by OW? I was thinking about this stuff on the bus today and started to feel tears well up in my eyes. Thank God for sunglasses!

I wish I knew the answer to this question. I don't know if or how you are expected to instantly detach from people who were like your second family for years. I have been very close to my SIL - she was a bridesmaid at our wedidng - and BIL, as well as MIL and FIL. I know what you mean about the popping up and saying "don't forget about me" thing - it's so hard to imagine just being replaced with a new daughter-in-law, after so many years and so many memories. Honestly, I don't know how people do it.

No advice again, sorry, just commiseration. Glad to hear it went well with your IL's, though, and they truly seem keen to maintain a relationship with you, so I say run with it.

[Ophelia]

Well it does help to know that I'm not the only one feeling these things, phoenix, so thanks for stopping by.

Got a call from the real estate agent just before about signing a new lease without H on it. Turns out H emailed them in December, but the real estate guy thought he'd leave it for a little while before trying to get anything made official, because sometimes situations like this one change. But he checked again with H just recently to see if he still wanted off the next lease, and he said yes, he still does.

Real estate agent asked if I'd discussed it with H, and I said that H has wanted pretty much nothing to do with me since he moved out, so we weren't exactly speaking. He sounded rather sympathetic, and said he was sorry to hear about it all. I said I'd try to contact H because we need to decide if we're gonna get our bond money back, or if he's happy to leave the amount there, and I'll just pay any increase.

The rent is guaranteed to go up. My parents are already basically paying my rent for me right now. We've got a really sweet deal on the rent at this place. Rents are going up everywhere by crazy amounts. A place across the road just went up for rent a couple of weeks ago, and I went and looked it up at it's over $300 per week. My current rent is $230. I reckon I'll be looking at at least $300 a week, which I really can't afford, but I really don't want to leave this place.

Man, this all sucks. I'd been doing pretty well the past few days and now this has just brought me down.

[phoenix23]

Hey Ophelia - haven't heard an update for awhile, how is everything going?

Sorry about your housing situation - that sounds like quite a worry, and really not what you need to be dealing with right now. Rent sounds awfully expensive there - I hope employers pay accordingly!

[Hope_11]

Hi, sorry for just joining the thread now. Both Ophelia and phoenix23 appear to be about the same age as my husband and me. My thread is called "Should I let go or hold on?" My husband and I are both in our late 20's and we don't have any kids either. My husband has been having an affair for 6 months and living with OW for 3. He acts like it's nothing serious, but doesn't want to work on our marriage but doesn't want to let me go. He thinks that he took things too far to turn back. I was wanting to get a little input from you two about how you are deciding what to do since you don't have kids to worry about. I feel like I am young enough to start over and have a good life, but I also still love my H even after all of this. We are seriously discussing getting a divorce at this point, so things are looking pretty bleak for me.

Also, Ophelia I think you mentioned something about your husband being taken over by aliens and being so cold to you. I know exactly how you feel. I have been with my H for 11 years and I also wonder how he can treat me the way that he has for the last 6 months.

Ophelia I am struggling with my in-law relationships also. I am very close with ils also. My ils all know about the ow and think that it is absolutely horrible about how he is going about everything. They blame all are problems on the infertility stuff. I am leaning on my ils more than my parents because I am still protecting H from my parents.

[phoenix23]

Wow, hopeless, you do have a lot in common with my sitch and Ophelia's too - I'm discovering that there are a fair number of younger childless couples who have been together for a good number of years on this board, and it seems to me, though this may be a generalization, that it is usually the husband who walks away, and quite often there is an OW either overlapping with the marriage or immediately following the split. I never would have imagined that what is happening to me fits into some sort of not all that uncommon pattern. How horrible.

To answer your question about moving on, hopeless (sorry to threadjack, Ophelia), I find myself wondering about that a lot too. I know that I have lots of time to start my life over, and in some ways it is tempting to do just that - to say to hell with this and start looking for, or at least being open to the possibility of, a relationship without a history of hurt like this. In many ways it seems like we have so much baggage now that it would be like beating a dead horse. Never mind the fact that I'm not sure that my family would ever accept him again - I'm fairly certain that my brother would punch my H out if he ever saw him, actually. That stuff makes it hard to see any hope of this working out. So often I wonder why I still want it to.

I guess my easiest answer is that I feel like I will never again find someone I love the way I love my H, that I feel as comfortable with, who makes me as happy as I felt with him. I know lots of people find love again after a divorce, but I don't want just any love, I want the same kind of love - maybe because it's the only kind of love I've ever known, maybe because I think it is a very pure and good kind of love that doesn't happen every day... maybe I'm just scared to start over. I don't know. I struggle with these questions every day.

What say you, Ophelia?

[Ophelia]

Aaannnnd here we go with a super long post (again).....

Easter was hard. I'd usually spend at least a couple of days over Easter with H's family. This year I spent every moment from Good Friday til Monday trying not to wonder if this year SHE was at that family gathering in my place. Just thinking about it would get my blood boiling.

On Sunday night I injured one of my fingers when I accidentally whacked it on a doorframe. Hurt like a bitch! My first thought was that it was probably gonna swell up, so I'd better get an icepack on it and get my rings off.....yep, it was my ring finger. So I took off my wedding and engagement rings and they're now on my right hand instead, because I can't not wear them. My finger is still pretty bruised, but doesn't really hurt at all, and my knuckle is still a bit swollen. I tried to put my wedding band back on the finger today, but it still won't fit over my knuckle, and it damn near made me cry because I want my rings back where they belong! It was just a crappy end to a crappy weekend where I'd been feeling crappy about H and our sitch.

I actually sent him an email yesterday. The new season of the show "The Amazing Race" is about to start here, but I hadn't seen any ads for it on TV so I just wanted to make sure he knew it was gonna be on because it's a show we both love. It's the "All Stars" season with a couple of teams from previous seasons who we both really loved, so I figured he wouldn't wanna miss it. I also said that I hoped he had a good Easter. He replied, said how awesome it was about "The Amazing Race" so he'd have to make sure he didn't miss it, and he said he'd pass the info on to one of our other friends who loves the show as well. He said he had a good Easter and he hoped I did too. I don't think I'll be entirely honest in my reply, if I send one at all.

Rent sounds awfully expensive there - I hope employers pay accordingly!

Well the thing is is that home loan interest rates keep going up on a regular basis, (pretty much every other month there's a news story about them going up, again). So people who own rental properties have to pay more on their loans, so in turn, the rents go up. Also, because the interest rates keep going up, it means less people can afford to buy a home, so there are more people renting, which means it's a more competitive market, which drives the rents up. Everyone is screwed and going broke, basically. My rent will be going up by $55 per week once I sign the new lease.....the lease which will only have my name on it....not H's. I know it's only a piece of paper, but I'm really dreading having to sign it because of what it represents.

My husband has been having an affair for 6 months and living with OW for 3. He acts like it's nothing serious, but doesn't want to work on our marriage but doesn't want to let me go. He thinks that he took things too far to turn back.

I'm pretty sure my H feels the same way. Just too much damage done now, so there's no going back. Maybe that was even part of his motivation for the A, (perhaps even subconsciously), because that would then make things really cut and dried because he'd just gone too far so didn't have to torture himself over the "should I go back or shouldn't I?" question anymore because it wasn't even an option.

I was wanting to get a little input from you two about how you are deciding what to do since you don't have kids to worry about. I feel like I am young enough to start over and have a good life, but I also still love my H even after all of this. We are seriously discussing getting a divorce at this point, so things are looking pretty bleak for me.

We are young enough to start over, but that doesn't mean I necessarily want to "move on". Call me old fashioned, but I grew up believing that once I got married that was gonna be it for me. That was the only guy I was ever gonna be with for the rest of my life. My grandad lived with us when I was growing up. I think I may have mentioned him before in this thread. He lived for a considerable while longer than my grandma did, but he never "moved on" with anyone new. That's what I grew up believing marriage vows were....they were for life. H on the other hand...well if both of his parents hadn't have divorced their first spouses then he wouldn't even exist, so I guess you could say we were brought up viewing marriage in two totally different ways, which obviously isn't helping matters now.

Yeah, I'm lonely as all hell every night when I go to bed, but I'm not gonna go looking for someone else just for the sake of not being alone anymore. I'm preparing myself for the prospect of never being with anyone else ever again. Never having kids. I know it sounds all tragic and dramatic and junk, but it's my reality. I think that even if we do get divorced, that won't change my feelings about being committed to those vows I made before God and my family, so at this point in time, I just don't see myself being with anyone else in the future. Maybe my mind will change one day, but if it does, I don't think it'll be any day soon.

Also, Ophelia I think you mentioned something about your husband being taken over by aliens and being so cold to you. I know exactly how you feel. I have been with my H for 11 years and I also wonder how he can treat me the way that he has for the last 6 months.

Yep, I actually told him once that it was like he was possessed or something because he was acting so unlike himself. Then I came here and started reading about people with MLC partners referring to them as having been abducted by aliens and I was like, "JACKPOT!"

Ophelia I am struggling with my in-law relationships also. I am very close with ils also. My ils all know about the ow and think that it is absolutely horrible about how he is going about everything. They blame all are problems on the infertility stuff.

I wish I knew how my ILs felt about OW. Not sure how you bring that up though. "So, MIL, have you met OW yet, and if so please tell me she's a raving bitch and you hate her and all she stands for." Might not go down so well.

I really miss my ILs. Used to see them once a week and now I hardly ever see either of them. I'm seriously thinking of writing a letter to MIL, not even talking about H so much, rather talking about how much I miss them. How I miss her homemade pizzas, and FIL's roast dinners and scrummy desserts, (we'd have dinner at their place once a week, and FIL would always make something yummy for dessert, and H and I would always serve it together...I had the role of official slicer of pies and H took care of the scoop of icecream on top). How I miss sharing a bottle of wine with her, both of us drinking from our fave purple wine glasses which always sat on the dining room table, waiting for their weekly outing. How I miss FIL's (really) bad jokes. How I miss working in her garden. How I miss the rest of the family, and hope they won't forget to try and include me in things in the future. The list goes on, and I feel like I need to let MIL know, because I feel that by saying nothing I'm just letting H trample all over the R I have with them, and I really want to stand up for myself, but at the same time I don't want to put her on the spot, which is why I'm thinking if I do say something, I'll say it in a letter instead.

I am leaning on my ils more than my parents because I am still protecting H from my parents.

My parents have had no contact with H since before this went down. I suspect my dad may want to rip H's head off though, which is perfectly understandable, but I hate that it's deteriorated to that point. My sister's boyfriend didn't exactly win any fans within the family the first time they dated, and now that they're back together, she's said that she realises how awkward it'll be if they end up married, seeing as how our parents in particular won't be all warm and fuzzy about it. So that's two daughters they've got with partners they're not huge fans of. Thank God my little brother seems to be on a winner with his girlfriend who is all kinds of awesome so everyone loves her. One outta three ain't bad.

[Heartbroken]

FWIW - I think you should write the ILs a letter - they probably have the same feelings for you and are just afraid to contact you for the same reasons. Sounds like you have a good R with them and they probably miss you just as much!