I have to admit I am REALLY confused with what has transpired with HD and MsHD. As someone who does not have an opinion set in stone about MsHD I will tell you I see something different than many responses.

Micro summary: we talked, we talked louder, she threatened divorce, I did a 180 and said, "fine. Let me know who you are going to choose as your attorney so that I don't waste my time waiting for them to call me back." Without being there I do not know how she threatens divorce. Did she stay I am going to divorce you or did she say I guess that means divorce? Whatever the answer, I am not sure that I think the answer "Fine" was your only option than your past pleading. What about simply standing your ground and asking her if "that is what you really want?" I know, I know... everyone here believes you have to fight her tooth and nail. I just do not think that is the only way. Make her own up to her words when she speaks them. That is what you did later and it worked!

Ironically if she does have the abandonment issues someone mentioned earlier, she may bring divorce up in a self protect mode rather than as a threat. My xH's best friend's xW was so sure that her H would leave her for a younger woman (she was 7 years older and he was making A LOT of money). For 2+ years before her affair and eventual divorce, despite his not wanting the divorce, she mentioned that "it was what happened with all rich men. They leave their wives." Hmmmm is it OBVIOUS that she left him in order to not be LEFT??

She got quiet, and then came back with all these things she was going to do today, e.g. cancel joint credit cards, etc. "Fine." And I made one observation: "Interesting how, over all these years, when you threaten divorce, I plead for you not to go there. When I finally agree, you have all the plans to D ready to go. Who's been working to keep the marriage together?" I found this to be a blaming and accusatory statement and a projection onto her since yesterday morning you were here on the boards discussing those very plans of how to separate from her.


Then, followed a dissection of the emails. She says that I took the whole "gritted teeth" thing wrong, that she wasn't commenting about doing this in response to sex in general, just scheduled sex. So NO ONE sees this as positive?? Whether she was honestly correcting a misinterpretation or just waffling from what she wrote, she was opening the door and not saying no to sex!!

I asked, again, just WTF, if anything, she WAS willing to do. She said it was in her email...that part about that she "might try things to make myself 'willing' more often than if I would if left to my own devices..." Huh? I told her that this was vague, and, really, just an illusory sort of offer... Example..."I might pick you up at 5pm, if you don't have another ride"... this promises nothing. Even if you didn't have another ride, I still haven't committed to pick you up.

I agree that she was extremely vague and I think you did a great job of "logically" explaining why her statement said nothing!

I needed to hear that she WILL try things to make herself more willing.
She said she would.

Am I missing something!!!!! YOu asked for what YOU NEEDED and she said YES. Isn't this great???

And then I said, great, but we need to get more specific.

YES

So MsHD sends this article on communication IN ORDER TO PREPARE FOR COMMUNICATION. Did she say anywhere that this stuff was only for you? Nope - she specifically said,"I'm reading this article on NVC, and I think it's got some good stuff, but I'm not saying we have a 'violence' problem." Wow and she even said WE. This is a way to set guidelines for how BOTH of you communicate as you both start down this path together. I see this as her ENGAGING and not deflecting.

The non-violent communication stuff is good and is covered in many other communication discussions also. Terrible "title" but good stuff. Michele covers this type in her book and I think John Gottman does the same.

I know people struggle with Michelle's "ACT AS IF" technique but I think it makes perfect sense and is useful to bringing out the best behaviors in people. What if you approached the conversation with MsHD "Acting as if" she loves you, wants to stay married to you and respects your feelings? Would it change how you reacted to her every word?

Please note that this does not mean sticking your head in the sand, backing down, begging, pleading, blah, blah, blah. This just means looking at her as the woman you love and expecting that she feels the same about you even if she cannot express it all the time or in the exact way that you want.

HD you deserve a great marriage and to be able to make love to your wife. Do you agree that she deserves a great marriage too? Find common ground and solve this problem TOGETHER. She seems as open to this as ever, doesn't she?



But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus