The way I see it, this article and the ideas may be a deflection, but she might strongly believe them. So brushing them aside will not help, it will piss her off and cause her to shut down. I think HD needs to listen to her ideas even if she pulls the whole jungle into her thoughts. She won’t move forward until she feels she has gotten this “point” across, what ever that point is. Let her have her say.
Rather than focusing on the CONTENT of their discussion, the article shows that she's trying to deflect it to focusing on his STYLE of it.
B.S.
Keep the heat on, Hairdog, and be a man-o'-steel. Sorry I don't have more than that to offer, but I'm still under my desk, whimpering in a fetal position after your 'Hawks beat up on my Egyptian Hunting Dogs last nite.
She knows she can intimidate you through power or bamboozle you through logical debate. The first did not work, when she saw you confront her. So I am guessing she has switched over to plan B. Hold the line on this. After some time (who knows how long) she will probably get frustrated that you won’t let it die, and switch back to plan A, outright intimidation again.
Here are the three key things to be with MrsHD. Make them your mantra. Do not waiver.
1) Nonreactive
2) Single minded
3) Immutable
Forget all the discussion. The single question right now is; "What are her intentions?" All other questions are non-sequitor.
Don't get your head filled with distraction.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
When you send me an article in response to the serious issues that we are discussing. I feel angry and confused. I need you to deal with the issues that we both have with the sexual aspect of our relationship directly with empathy and respect. I would like you to commit to working on the sexual issues at hand with actionable ideas.
Excellent start my friend! Confrontation sucks I know, but it's absolutely necessary at this point in your marriage to get you off the treadmill and actually moving forward.
BRAVO for calling her on the carpet about the e-mail comment that she "might" do something, that was such a non-committal response on her part it's really quite pathetic. She knew damned well that wasn't a committment to do something about the situation. FWIW, we all have to confront like this with our issues I believe....if we don't call bull when it's necessary, they will continue to pile it on us. Some of us have to do it to differing degrees, but we all have to do it.
Way to go! Now, don't let this be a one-time thing. GEL
When you send me an article in response to the serious issues that we are discussing. I feel angry and confused. I need you to deal with the issues that we both have with the sexual aspect of our relationship directly with empathy and respect. I would like you to commit to working on the sexual issues at hand with actionable ideas.
I think this is an excellent response. Meets the criteria of keeping to the issue AND incorporating her article.
I have to admit that my irony meter wants to know just where threats of divorce fit within the article's rules.
HD, did she add any commentary or explanation to the article?
Forget all the discussion. The single question right now is; "What are her intentions?" All other questions are non-sequitor.
I’m not sure I see the logic in this. What would you expect her to say? Does she even know her own intentions, and if she does, how long with those last? Will they change as she sees HD change? Will defining those intentions cause her to hold to them out of ego and make it harder for her to move away from them later? Trying to get an answer to this might put her on the spot and just because she backed down this time doesn’t mean she won’t flip over into full attack mode.
The most I could reasonably believe from my W and she from me was that we wanted to stop the fighting. That was it. Anything either of us said regarding marriage, divorce, separation, sex, intimacy, a future together, was not believable to the other. Plus it all changed from week to week.
I believe it is worth stating simple intentions for the very short term, but trying to get her to say she will commit to he marriage is waaaay too scary for her and I don’t see any way she will do that. I think it better to go with the less threatening position (for her) that she has one foot out the door, is ready to D at any moment and that is what HD is going to have to work with. It will change later anyway.
I want to follow up a little more…. Think about the steps needed for successful negotiation. Certain steps need to come in a certain order and those steps should not be too big. For instance, I think your first step should be to have her hear you and acknowledge your POV and that you have certain needs. To be fair, you will have to do the same for her. If this means acknowledging that she descended from giraffes and you descended from jackals, then so be it. It really doesn’t matter. You each need a base position from which to begin negotiation. After all is said and done, neither of you will be anywhere close to your starting points anyway, so it doesn’t really matter. But if you don’t allow her to set her initial position, you can waste too much time arguing before you can even get started, KWIM?
Then try to follow the IMAGO rules for listening and validating each other. You don’t have to agree with one another, but you do have to let each other feel they have been heard. This is very important.
Merging toward a common footing from which the both of you can comfortably operate in the marriage will take a long time and neither of you really know what that place will be. How can you? There are too many issues yet to be brought up. Plus, as each one is uncovered, it can cause all previously settled issues to be re-evaluated. It’s almost like the whole picture changes with each step and nothing comes into focus until the final stone is overturned, but you don’t know where that stone is, what it is covering, or when you will get to it. But when it is turned over, then you “get it.” That stone can have the potential to changed everything else that came before it.
My point is to not get dragged down into intractable POVs that can set the whole process back. Try to keep moving forward even if something is not to your liking. You can always bring it up later, but that issue may also resolve itself. So try not to shed too much blood over little things. Just hold to your boundaries and the ultimate goal, what ever shape that will eventually take.
I am not going to debate with you right now as I am passing a kidney stone and have very limited patience.
Simply put, HD has no combat experience.
As a pilot, I have spent a lot of time drilling on emergency procedures so that I don't have to do a lot of thinking in an emergency, responses are automatic.
People suffer from tunnel vision when they are under extreme duress. Hairdog needs a SIMPLE plan of action that he can recite back to himself even in the midst of a fierce battle. That is what I have tried to provide him.
Plans with many words are a death trap at this stage in the game.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
