Burgbud: I haven't a clue as to how to change the dynamic. I'm thinking a first step might be to figure out how to do better with the kids to get them to stop the sniping at each other and maybe do their chores without being ridden. I'm too deep in the mire to see a path out though.
MrsNOP: That's a great idea. I already voiced a little bit of it at lunch time today. I want to be careful not to come across as a complaint, but more as a state of the marriage and lets come up with a plan to make it better. Historically, she's not one for letting her feelings or needs out, and prying just gets her to clam up more. I've been hoping that by letting mine out more she'd open up, but so far that hasn't happened. Makes it hard to keep opening myself up, KWIM?
Karen: Thanks. I do take my vows seriously. I do think we have enough of a good foundation that together we can make it a great marriage. I'm just not sure of the steps to take at this point.
Lou: I wish I knew about these resources 15+ years ago when there was a lot less momentum to deal with. I do think the NFP is part of my lost interest, not because I don't trust it, but more because MrsGGB isn't really on board with it so the measurements and record keeping has lots of holes which makes it quite difficult to pin-point her fertile time. If seeing Dr Tyanoti would make a difference to our R, I'd go in a heartbeat. The fact is, if the R were running smooth, I don't think the NFP would be a fraction of the issue it is now, and without an improvement in the R, it frankly doesn't really matter whether I get snipped or not, as I haven't been all that interested anyway. We do get out for a dinner date once every week or so, leaving one or both of the oldest boys (17 and 14) to babysit. We do spend some evenings together after the younger ones are in bed, but that is usually just TV time, which doesn't do much for me. My contracts tend to be longer term, usually 3-6 months with two or more contracts running concurrently (I'm in the electronics design business). This past year, it has been very busy (90 hours/week) due to a combination unforseen circumstances. I prefer to keep to 60 or so hours/week, although with the current coolness in the R the 90 hours have given me something to do with my time. Most of it is fixed price work, so it is in my best interest to get it done quickly.
Hairy: Good thing I've been hitting the Y twice a week then, huh? (I'm at my college weight now, and probably in the best shape I've been all my life).
MrsNOP: more good ideas from you. You gave me an idea. MrsGGB used to enjoy horseback riding (before she met me). There are a couple of stables around, Maybe a surprise date for some riding would be in order when it gets warmer. In the mean time, perhaps taking her out antiquing would also help, as it has been a while since she's done that too. Thanks.
I do think the NFP is part of my lost interest, not because I don't trust it, but more because Mrs. GGB isn't really on board with it so the measurements and record keeping has lots of holes which makes it quite difficult to pin-point her fertile time. Thanks for filling the details about Mrs. GGB not being on board. That is what I partly had in the back of my mind when I made my other post.
To me, not having all of the data is like playing dynamite. Too risky. Dynamite by itself is very stable. A stick with a blasting cap (potential PG) in it is another puppy.
This past year, it has been very busy (90 hours/week) due to a combination unforeseen circumstances. I prefer to keep to 60 or so hours/week, although with the current coolness in the R the 90 hours have given me something to do with my time. HOW DO I SAY RED FLAG?
1. You are working too much. BTDT 2. I know the pressure from feeling like the customer's project has to get finished. That takes time and the importance of sex and puts sex/the R, in second place.
Sometimes I wished BB would come out into my shop and F me there on the spot, while I worked on my nighttime customer's cars. Good movie scene, but it didn't happen.
By the time I finished an auto repair at night, BB was already PO'ed sometimes. Our timing was off. She had the hots by 8PM and by 9:15 P.M., those juices started turning to vinegar.
I could have sour sex by 10:15 if I pushed for it. I imagine you know the drill.
TV kind of lame? I know. Same program style I have seen for the last 5 years. I forgot what Mrs. GGB watches. BB does the same sit-coms series, some for the 8th time. I can almost recite the main punch lines before they are said.
I read books sometimes while sitting next to BB while she does the TV thing. I know that isn't helping my situation much.
Most of it is fixed price work, so it is in my best interest to get it done quickly. Same here GGB. No contracts for me but printer repairs are parts plus a set fee.
Sometime I wonder if hourly employees 9BB) understand what it takes to have a successful business. Some hourly people talk about days off, benefits, what they aren't getting from the employer. Business owners talk about bringing in work, paying suppliers/employees, and operating expenses. Maybe that is me, coming from a POV that I get to keep what is left over and obligations come first.
Each side (owner/employee) has its advantages and challenges.
There are a couple of stables around, maybe a surprise date for some riding would be in order when it gets warmer. Excellent idea Mrs. Nop. Is Mrs. GGB physically up to riding?
Yeah, it sure can fly, can't it? It's been 20 years for me, too (we've been married for 22, but it was after our oldest daughter, now 20, was born that the SL went sour). My wife says the exact same "we never have fun anymore!" thing, and I keep screaming in my head "But SEX is fun!" and "But YOU'RE the one being high-maintenance every time I try to take you out on a date! Aaaiiiieeee!!!!"
Hindsight is always 20/20. All you can do is try to deal with this now, so we're not sitting here having the same conversation 20 years from now. As for me, I haven't quite figured out how to do it, or how much I want to. Only you can answer for you.
Sopranos-style-backslapping-guy-hugs,
Choc.
"Like a Rock" Bob Seger
Stood there boldly Sweatin in the sun Felt like a million Felt like number one The height of summer Id never felt that strong Like a rock
I was eighteen Didnt have a care Working for peanuts Not a dime to spare But I was lean and Solid everywhere Like a rock
My hands were steady My eyes were clear and bright My walk had purpose My steps were quick and light And I held firmly To what I felt was right Like a rock
Like a rock, I was strong as I could be Like a rock, nothin ever got to me Like a rock, I was something to see Like a rock
And I stood arrow straight Unencumbered by the weight Of all these hustlers and their schemes I stood proud, I stood tall High above it all I still believed in my dreams
Twenty years now Whered they go? Twenty years I dont know Sit and I wonder sometimes Where theyve gone
And sometimes late at night When Im bathed in the firelight The moon comes callin a ghostly white And I recall Recall
Like a rock. standin arrow straight Like a rock, chargin from the gate Like a rock, carryin the weight Like a rock
Lihe a rock, the sun upon my skin Like a rock, hard against the wind Like a rock, I see myself again Like a rock
First, congrats on 20 years of marriage. I understand that it's been very difficult at times, but you've survived. You've stuck it out. It sounds like your marriage could be turned around if you can put the puzzle pieces together.
I do wonder if the NFP is an issue. Worrying about getting PG is a huge libido buster for women. You mentioned that she isn't on board with NFP. Would she prefer another method of B/C? Is that an option for you?
At her (40-something) age, she's nearing the end of her child-bearing years and this can be a difficult time for many women. She may feel sad about that, even while at the same time feeling overwhelmed caring for the kids all day. As the mother of one child, I feel enormous admiration and respect for your W! Does she talk about things or does she tend to keep it all inside?
Do you thank her for caring for the children? Do you tell her how much you appreciate all she does? One of the most difficult things about being a SAHM (for me) was that it often seemed like a thankless job. Even if she doesn't thank you, try thanking her. When I started thanking my H he was surprised at first, but then I think he appreciated hearing it. Surprisingly, I felt good saying the words! Praise didn't come easily to me, but, being grateful for what I have really changed the way I see things.
It's good that you and your W go out alone once a week. Surprising her by taking her riding is a great idea. What other interests does she have? She's been in caretaker mode for so long that it probably doesn't even occur to her to do anything for herself. She may have forgotten what she likes.
Also, I think MrsNOP's ideas are great. I agree that you should tell your W how you feel, and that doing it in writing might be best. Your posts to Cemar demonstrate that you truly understand and I think that really gives you an advantage.
Thanks. NFP is, I think, a bigger issue to me than to her. She does get horny during her fertile time, and will throw caution to the wind, leaving it to me to say no we don't want to get pg. I'm nearly petrified over the possibility of having another. We haven't discussed bc lately. Aside from religious reasons, chemical b/c is also out because of a history of breast and cervical cancer in her family.
She's 43, so far with no signs of menopause. She doesn't know when her mother entered menopause, as she claimed to be menopausal for nearly 40 years. Her aunt, didn't enter menopause till she was in her early 60s. I think she is overwhelmed with the kids. A good part of her day is spent carting them to/from school and activities. The kids are in 4 different schools this year, two of which have no transportation (catholic schools). I think I can get better at expressing my appreciation for what she does. At times it is difficult because I often feel like I'm picking up her slack on top of my job. On the other hand, when I pick up the whole thing to let her go off and do her own thing for a bit, I see firsthand how big a job it is to juggle it all.
As far as other interests, she's mostly into solo activities. She enjoys quilting, and is working on several quilts in the evenings. She is also an avid reader.
I wimped out. Well sort of anyway. I had taken my post, cleaned it up and added a line at the bottom saying: " I'm giving you this note today, not as an indictment, but as an invitation to join with me in the hard work to make our marriage what it should be." I never got as far as printing it out, as she seemed to be in a pretty good mood and I didn't want to spoil that.
So now for the well sort of part. Over dinner it goes like this: Mrs: So what owuld you like to see us get accomplished this year? me: in terms of what? Mrs: Anything, it could be the house, kids, money, us.... me, taking the opening: I'd like to make our marriage a lot better than it is now. I'm not really happy about it the way it is,and I sense that you aren't too happy either....
and it went from there. I pretty much brought up everything from my note. As far as I can tell so far, all it did was bum her out. She did say that my response to her initial question wasn't what she expected but that she also wasn't really surprised. Anyway, I think there is plenty to work from and lots of hope. Still not any firm direction to take toward improving things though. I think I may suggest we go to another WWME weekend.
me, taking the opening: I'd like to make our marriage a lot better than it is now. I'm not really happy about it the way it is,and I sense that you aren't too happy either....
Good for you GGB! You were direct and vulnerable at the same time. That's really important for building the intimacy in your M. I hope your W steps up. LFL
Happy 20th anniversary, GGB! And WTG for confronting the issues, instead of letting anger and resentment settle in. I hope you and the Mrs. come up with some fun ideas to move things along.
