Valentines day massacre

[attorneytom]

Hi OL !

I just caught up on your thread. You are in a hard spot for sure... I am sorry about your workplace situation .

If I were in your shoes I dont think I would leave my home/house. If your wacky wife wants her "freedom" and "happiness" she can go ! No R Boxes for you !!!

Just me.

Tom

[lawless]

She has made it clear that she wants me out regardless.

In quite the pickle I am....

Gonna go pick out a nice refrigerator box..:-)

Ummmmmm am I missing something here? Your W has an OM and wants YOU out? Tell her she should start looking for a place to live. I would be damned if I would give up my self respect and move out!

[Lissett]

Thank you Lawless.

She better start looking for a place to live, and see how she likes to pay rent.

don't cushion all their falls, they have to fall flat on their face, to wake up.

[outtaluck]

Thanks for the support!

We rent this house from her Grandma, so if it comes to it Gram will side with W and probably let her slide on the rent if she needed...especially when she makes me out to be the bad guy...

I don't even know how or what to tell her...no, haven't told W yet...but I brought up the possibility the place closing before and that was her reaction.

On a good note, the job situation is helping me forget the relationship situation a little....like hitting your hand with a hammer to forget your headache :-)

Thanks all

[LoginName]

OL, still might be worth bringing up that she should be the one to leave.

Where do you life and what kind of work do you do and do you like to do? I don't not if you want to share that info, but maybe someone here can help you find a new job. I haven't seen that done here, and it might be futile or even a bad idea. Just a thought.

What's with us LBSers? Here we are, in a terrible situation, just got our guts spilled on the floor and our hearts smashed, and we still say thankyou and put smiley's on our posts. Are we just too nice? We must be near to sainthood. OL, I'm impressed by how you've maintained so far. (H@ll, I'm impressed with myself too, ;-) You must have a lot of strength. You're going to need it, but isn't it good to know it's there? This can't break us. If it could, it would have already. You're going to come through this (even though sometimes you may wish you wouldn't. Sorry, but you've got no choice. You are strong, and you will survive).

Last nigth I was trying to think of all I've learned over the past 6 months and how to condense it. It's actually pretty easy to condense. The most important things are (anyone and everyone, yell if you disagree):
1. Take care of yourself. Find a way to sleep and eat.
2. Detach. Don't let her see you angry. Try not to let her see how hurt you may be. Don't lose control around her. Come her, go to friends, take a walk to express yourself, not in front of her.
3. Get a life (GAL). Do for yourself. Make yourself happy. This doesn't mean being selfish or not living up to your wedding vows (even if she is breaking them). It means finding things to do that make you happy and doing them. Don't do them trying to impress or change her. Do it for you.
4. You can't really understand her now. Good idea not to try. She is in her own land. You need to be in yours. See points 1,2, and 3.

I think you said you've got the DR book. Read Last Resort Technique (LRT) and do it. Really. Even if your situation starts to improve, remember LRT. You are in a critical spot, and I think only LRT can help you. Only detaching can help. You can get support in how to do that here.

You seem to already be doing a pretty good in dealing with this. Keep going.

[LoginName]

Hey OL, Some questions and comments for you.

but its the least I could do for all the crap I put her through...

What kind of crap did you put her through? It doesn't really matter, it would not excuse her actions.

She jokingly said that I could sing her lullabyes and massage her to sleep...and of course I did...but she always makes sure to remind me that she's shut down, and not to get my hopes up.

I think this comes under the "having her cake and eating it too" category. I think many MLCers do this, at least at first.

got to trust that she knows what she's doing

I don't think so. I think you can't tell her how to live her life and protect her, but she doesn't know what she's doing. You've got to detach and let her make her own mistakes.

I know the DB stuff, detaching, seems so wrong. For years, probably, we didn't have the closeness our Ws wanted, that we wanted in our Rs. Now we know, and we want to fix it. We want to be that caring, close, supportive person we should have been all along. But now isn't the time. They need space, especially from us. They need to go through this for themselfs. OL, I know it seems like exactly the wrong thing to do. I've felt, feel, the same way, but I've seen my sitch improve, and it only improves when I detach and step away. My sitch has only gotten better when I GAL and give her space.

You can listen if she wants to talk, without offering advise (don't tell her what the OM is thinking - even if we both know what he's thinking). Listening is hard. She may tell you things that are hard to hear. It's OK to say you need to step away from the conversation if you have to. Don't get angry or show hurt in front of her (you will, but try very hard not too and step away if you start to show these feelings).

You don't have to be her best friend. You can be polite and concerned, but you don't have to fix her life for her. Again, listen, don't talk much, don't be her best friend.

Don't repeat yourself. If you've told her you realize you've made mistakes in the past, fine. Don't tell her again. If you've told her you think she's making a mistake, OK. Don't tell her again. They really do hear us. She's heard what you said and repeating it makes it sound like a demand or critisism. You're going to have to bite your tongue alot.

I don't think much can be done to make your R better until the A is over. I think the books say it will last about 6 months. It can't be rushed. Detach, back off, give her space, be a friend, but not her best friend.

Remember that the OM is not the real issue here.

The A and the OM hurt so much, but they aren't the real issue. They distract and delay the real issues. Don't discuss the OM with her.

OL, I know DB and detaching doesn't feel like the right thing to do. I know being trying to be close to her feels like a 180. But I'm serious. Back off. Give her space.

If you're like me, you are thinking "he doesn't know, he's not here. My sitch is different. I still see love in her eyes. She still wants me to rub her back, etc..". Maybe your thinking you'll lose her for good if you back off now. That's what I thought. But, truthfully, especially in the first months, I think improvement only came by following the DB rules; detach, GAL, PMA, and give her space.

and! if she is in MLC, dude, you could be in for a long rough ride. Read Smurfs posts. He's has put all the MLC stuff together to make it easy to find. MLCers are hard. Apparently, she could be 'nice' now (if having an A is nice) but MAY become really mean later. Again, the best answer is to back off.

You've got a hard job ahead of you. It hurts like hell. But you've got the strength to make it, and you've got support here.

[outtaluck]

Hey LN,

I'm in Stratford CT. I was working as a driver for a bakery. Unfortunately I don't have much experience at anything else...been there a looooonnnggg time. I have an interest in just about anything, though. If I could get my foot in the door at someplace that has a decent salary I think I could do almost anything and enjoy it. It sucks not having a ride...showing up for interviews on my bike I think somehow may give the wrong impression to a prospective employer.

Meanwhile, I've had this idea for a website that may generate some income...with the extra time I have now I'm trying to put into that. Even if not it gets my mind off R.

To answer your question about the crap I put her through...well, it's probably more what I didn't do than anything I did. It kills me for her to tell me she felt alone, that I wasn't there for her....and for me to know that its true...sure, not all the time, but I can see her point...especially now that she's not here for me. If this is the way I made her feel, holy God...I had no idea. Still think better communication would have helped...we just kind of stopped fighting, but it always seemed like there was something wrong...couldn't put my finger on it.
I'm blaming myself for this...part of me says thats not right, part of me thinks I deserve all this pain.

I haven't had to practice much detatchment...she pretty much stays out as much as possible, as not to see me I'm sure. So interaction is at a minimum as it is...

When she is here I usually, (well, now...) let her make the first move at communication. Its just when we're in bed together the massage thing might come up...otherwise she rolls so far to her side of the bed I think she's gonna fall off :-)

I did leave her be last night and I guess she had some trouble sleeping....she has had insomnia for a couple years...at least once a week she has a bad night and can't sleep. So she did hunt me down and ask for a massage...and I knew it was wrong...but God she feels so good... its the only connection we have left....so,so hard to let this one go.

I'm not as strong as I might make myself out to be, if I do...today was the first day in a month that I haven't woke up crying...luckily shes already gone by then. Its been many many tears through the day as well....though its less often lately. I do have my good days as well...but just as I'm going along fine, a song will come on or a memory will pop up, and bam...instant breakdown. But like I said..little less often...and less dramatic when they do....I just let it come an go as best as I can. And no, I do not let her see me like that...anymore.

I'm sure you're right about the OM. I pretty much figure I have no hope till that runs its course....whatever may happen its useless to think I have any control over that. So do I get a "have an affair free" card if we get back together?

But in general I'm usually a positive guy, so even though I got no job, and my M is in the toilet somehow I know there is a sunrise at the end of all this...got to clear out the old, right?

Thanks for the great advice LN. It is so extremely helpful right now.

BTW how do you searh a persons name? Can't seem to get that to work right.

[LoginName]

Here is something good I copied from 25yrmlc
My DB coach also suggested the following: Listen like a lover/friend. Lose the parental voice ("why are you doing this to us? How can you be so selfish,?" etc) b/c it shuts down their own inner voice. And try not to challenge their choices, b/c it forces them to defend the choices instead of honestly looking at them. Last but not least, and incredibly difficult at times, is to "applaud loudly for the 1% of good he does/says." Negative feedback just doesn't work, period. Same with the s3, same with the MLCer.

[LoginName]

I'm very impressed by your attitude. It really is realistic too. This is a terrible, awful, time for you, but also an opportunity to be really awake and really learn to live your life.

It's been about 6 months of this for me, and I still cry, a lot. I couldn't listen to music for months. It seems every damn song is about love, or heartbreak, or cheating. I still tear up easily and quickly. My co-workers must think I have an eye desease.

So do I get a "have an affair free" card if we get back together

LOL, no, sorry, you don't. If you've read my sitch, you know I had an A a few years ago. It is the worst thing I've ever done in my life. (Maybe your W will feel that way someday too.) The A I had resulted in me losing respect for myself. If nothing else, I always thought I had integrity. Admitting to my best friend, and my mother and brother, that I had an affair really hurt. I was actually afraid they would disown me. The pain I caused my W when she found out (just recently, long story) made me feel awful too. And of course, there is my OW. She was fantastic in many ways. She was a good friend. Now I can never see her again. And I hurt her. Almost nothing good came out of the A. My W feels the same about hers. Her OM could have been a great friend (maybe even my friend. My W says he is a lot like me (ain't that special?)). Affairs are a bad idea. My feeling now it, and I plan on telling my W this too, is if she wants to 'date' someone, then lets get a divorce. Let's at least be honest about it.

That doesn't really apply to your sitch. Your W may be in MLC. Both of you are confused now. No need to demand a divorce or anything else for that matter.

We all put our Spouses through crap. They gave some to us too. It's good to see what you did, what you're responsible for, own it, accept the consequences, but don't over do it. The past is done, you can't change it. You can learn from it. You made mistakes. Learn from it and do better. You're not a bad person because you made mistakes. She put you through some crap too I bet - But! don't even start expecting her to admit her own failings. You don't have that right and can't make her accept responsibility, or make her do anything. Take responsibility for your own faults, ask for forgiveness (someday, if not now) and then learn and move on.

I don't know anyone in CT. Since you have computer skills, here's an idea for you. Try to get a job in software testing/QA. That's what I do. It's a field that still allows people without degrees to work as a professional for pretty good money and pretty comfortable work. If you got in at entry level, my guess is the pay would still be at least 25000 per year, and probably more. Testing can be interesting and fun, and it can turn into a career. If you're a Vet, the VA can probobly help you find a job. Any other groups you might belong to that can help?

I don't think the bike will hurt your chances too much, or even at all.

Here is an idea for you to consider, if your house is big enough. Get separate bedrooms. My W and I have done that. It really helps both of us get some much needed sleep. I hate that she is not in my bed, but I couldn't stand the way she moved all the way to the edge to avoid my touch. Again, just an idea. Meanwhile, I'm jealous your W lets you touch and massage her. I imagine it is painfully bitter sweet, but I'd love to hold my W again, and touch her. I don't think I could stand it though either.

The fact that your W is (maybe?) having an A really makes me think you should be doing the LRT. Can you afford and would she go to any counseling (C)?

Like you said, there is a sunrise coming, and it'll be beautiful. Life keeps going, even when we don't think we can stand it anymore. It shows us wonderful things all the time. Sometimes we are too wrapped up in our own problems to notice them, but they are there.

[outtaluck]

Soo, why can't I keep my fool mouth shut?? She was nice to me today (in that "civil" way) took me to cash my last check, pay the electric, cooked dinner. So the phone rings, and I know its OM, and she says she's going out...so I go "say hi to your boyfriend for me" WTF am I thinking...like I need to piss her off more...
She says "he's not my boyfriend" and I'm like "whatever..." Jeez, shutup already... She does this everynight..so I should be used to it... I was a little PO'd because I found out she went to see him in a bar and left D in car...Yeah, D is 19, but I don't think she should involve them in her escapades....but she doesn't know I know...didn't say anything...overheard D talking to her BF...really was accidentally. Its like everyone knows but me...but I do know...wierd

So here I am, a couple beers and tears later...

Thanks LN for the ideas...she's not into counselling at this point..just wants a clean break...wish I could for me as well. I hesitate to do the LRT at this point, I kinda believe her when she says its only a friendship...maybe because I want to... but I know that its coming soon...I think that once I'm out of here things will be easier between us....it is hard knowing she's out with OM (calling him a man is hard, how about POS...LOL)

Yeah, I been looking at the want ads...most want some kind of certification for software anything, not to mention exp...

Not a vet, so no help there...

I'm telling ya, when I dig a hole for myself, I dig deep.

Meanwhile, I'm putting some stuff on ebay for a little scratch...

I was thinking of sep bedrooms...actually as a way for me not to move out....there is a room here with sep entrance...told her she would not ever even see me unless she wanted...but she said not now...maybe in the future...(yeah, right) Was worth a shot...its gonna be hard for her financially...

Yeah, I get to massage her....but she wears this thick terry cloth robe (for her back??) so its not alot of skin on skin....I work my way in..hehe...but I know its like chasing bubbles...they gonna pop anyway... Still, like I said, its the only connection I have left...and I don't do it because I think it'll change her in any way...totally selfish....just feels so good to be close to her...still sleep holding her and sometimes I wake up and she's holding me. I know its only crumbs...but I'm a hungry man :-)

I told her when we were shopping that I would like to make love to her one last time before I leave....leave with a nice memory...she wasn't entirely against it...she said it might be hard for me, but I said I can handle it if she can....Kinda hoping it digs up some feelings for her...my luck it'll be the most awkward, anxiety filled experience since losing my virginity...if it even happens.

This weekend we got to take D17 to tour college...that shouldn't be too awkward. Hard to put on a happy face sometimes... but I will...and when we get home she'll run to OM and it'll drive me nuts... But I'll get through

Ever just feel like saying F the whole deal....like who needs this crap...why should I put up with this, no matter what I did...where is my spine? Those thoughts come alot...then those I love her thoughts come and I'm sure it's gonna be worth it somehow...

They say that anger is a step up from depression...maybe its a good sign? Sill a long climb up that ladder to happiness...

Thanks for being here LN...I have been going through yours and alot of other posts and I'm gaining alot of wisdom...still, alot of stuff here touches a nerve and just gets me bawling sometimes... And all I'm learning...I still go and screw up...doh!!

Cheers