Or are you so afraid of failing a second time, that self-respect is a small price to pay?
Failure is not an option. Sorry...sometimes I crack myself up. I've always wanted to say that. Please - for me - imagine that I just said that in my best George C. Scott voice.
I just keep seeing my daughter's face when I think about failure/divorce. It drives me to keep trying to make it work.
Hairdog - who's ready to go home now. See y'all in the morning.
FWIW, here's a simple description of the Type 1 from the new enneagram site that I stumbled on -------------- Mrs. HD The Perfectionist (the One) Perfectionists are realistic, conscientious, and principled. They strive to live up to their high ideals.
How to Get Along with Me
Take your share of the responsibility so I don't end up with all the work. Acknowledge my achievements. I'm hard on myself. Reassure me that I'm fine the way I am. Tell me that you value my advice. Be fair and considerate, as I am. Apologize if you have been unthoughtful. It will help me to forgive. Gently encourage me to lighten up and to laugh at myself when I get uptight, but hear my worries first.
What I Like About Being a One
being self-disciplined and able to accomplish a great deal working hard to make the world a better place having high standards and ethics; not compromising myself being reasonable, responsible, and dedicated in everything I do being able to put facts together, coming to good understandings, and figuring out wise solutions being the best I can be and bringing out the best in other people
What's Hard About Being a One
being disappointed with myself or others when my expectations are not met feeling burdened by too much responsibility thinking that what I do is never good enough not being appreciated for what I do for people being upset because others aren't trying as hard as I am obsessing about what I did or what I should do being tense, anxious, and taking things too seriously
--------------- HD The Questioner (the Six) Questioners are responsible, trustworthy, and value loyalty to family, friends, groups, and causes. Their personalities range broadly from reserved and timid to outspoken and confrontative.
How to Get Along with Me
Be direct and clear. Listen to me carefully. Don't judge me for my anxiety. Work things through with me. Reassure me that everything is OK between us. Laugh and make jokes with me. Gently push me toward new experiences. Try not to overreact to my overreacting.
What I Like About Being a Six
being committed and faithful to family and friends being responsible and hardworking being compassionate toward others having intellect and wit being a nonconformist confronting danger bravely being direct and assertive
What's Hard About Being a Six
the constant push and pull involved in trying to make up my mind procrastinating because of fear of failure; having little confidence in myself fearing being abandoned or taken advantage of exhausting myself by worrying and scanning for danger wishing I had a rule book at work so I could do everything right being too critical of myself when I haven't lived up to my expectations
Honestly, when I try to picture you with someone else, I just see you being bored. There is something about MRS. HD's unavailability that just lights your fire.
In the world of healthy, wholesome, by-the-book sex, that would probably be seen as pathological and founded in low self-esteem.
I think you're going way overboard with this theory. I absolutely agree that power, aggression, selfishness, greed, lust and probably every other deadly sin can contribute to hot monkey sex but, IMO, a mature adult couple can act or play these themes out in bed without having to do them for real in their relationship. I knew the most lovely,loving nerdy couple (They both wore wool socks with Birkenstocks and thick-framed glasses) who were totally into S&M sexually. It's no different than playing King of the Castle or Doctor when you're a kid. I'm not even necessarily talking about full-blown fantasy play either. Just think about the moment in a sit-com when the wife turns to the husband and lowering her voice just a notch says "Come here tiger.". We all know what is going to happen next while we go to commercial break.
I wish I could do a better job explaining my perspective to you, HD. I feel for you so much with your thoughts about your daughter. I had to steel myself like you wouldn't believe to have "the talk" with my kids. You know that it's quite possible that if you do play this out the way that you know that it has to be played out you will have to have that talk with her. Just remember that it is quite possible that her response will be "Okay, can I have some ice cream now?". I'm not saying this to in any way devalue what you are trying to preserve but rather to indicate that it is possible that reality is or can be different than your current perspective is leading you to believe. For instance, not so long ago I felt like I was still sexually attracted to my STBX. Now I feel nothing or just a slight revulsion that I ever wanted to have sex with a man who was so frequently discourteous. What would you have, from your heart, advised me to do when my H said something as rude to me as what your W said to you? Be as much of a friend to yourself as you would be to me and do the same. Remember, we've all got your back.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
What theory? The theory that HD's lust for a woman who would have to grit her teeth to ML him IS pathological, or the theory that his lust is NOT pathological?
In truth, I don't have a theory, Mojo. I'm just observing the fact that in spite of the way Mrs. HD treats HD like dogsh!t (and has for YEARS), he can still look at her with lust, as recently as yesterday, AFTER the yukky email from her.
How would YOU explain it? That's not a rhetorical question... how WOULD you explain it?
Mojo wrote
Quote:
Now I feel nothing or just a slight revulsion that I ever wanted to have sex with a man who was so frequently discourteous.
How would YOU explain it? That's not a rhetorical question... how WOULD you explain it?
I'm sorry LP, I didn't understand what you were getting at. My answer to the question is very simple. If we work under the assumption that HD and I are somewhat similar than the reason that he is still "in lust" with MsHD is that he has an inherently high or at least normal sexual demand and he is allowing his moral compass to determine the limits of his sexual supply. As soon as he finds himself in a position in which he decides that he has the moral right to look beyond MsHD for sexual partners he will immediately lose his attraction for a woman who is so cold and callous in her sexuality. At least that has been my analogous experience. Of course, his situation varies from mine in that my H wasn't low drive quite in the same manner as MsHD. I actually feel somewhat sorry for my STBX because I believe that he will have great difficulty finding a sexual partner who will tolerate both his depressive LD and the dark end of his bandwidth but they say every pot has got a lid so maybe he'll get lucky.-LOL
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
As soon as he finds himself in a position in which he decides that he has the moral right to look beyond MsHD for sexual partners he will immediately lose his attraction for a woman who is so cold and callous in her sexuality.
I see your point. It's certainly possible.
Did I miss something... where did we get the idea that you and HD are similar?
Your STBX will probably find some 25-year old Goth with black fingernails, coming off a meth addiction, death-white skin, no job. He'll meet her when she is standing on a bridge at 3 in the morning getting ready to throw herself off, and he'll talk her down, take her for scrambled eggs and coffee. Then he'll find that she's escaped from the rehab facility where her rich parents keep putting her... iow she's Winona Rider in "Girl Interrupted" What I'm getting at is he'll find someone sadder than he is who makes him look/feel healthy by comparison. After all, the 4 in decline becomes a 2, the caretaker.
Or maybe he'll find an ex-matron from a prison... someone who's as strong-willed as you (with the same body) but with none of your jolliness or kindness. She's 15 years OLDER than he, and she'll grimly set about the mission of turning him into a goose-stepping productive member of society, with a 9-5 job, 5-mile runs before dawn, and a diet of rare meat and raw vegetables.
BOTH of these women will make him long for you and wish he could turn the clock back and do everything differently... but that's the natural, comfortable zone for the 4 anyway, so actually it's a win-win sitch all around.
I don't see your STBX and Mrs. HD similar at ALL. Other than the fact that both had low sex drives.
Mr. Wilson was very passive in his control. Mrs. HD is very active in her control. You and HD are similar in that you both have fantastic senses of humor, you are both very intelligent, fantastic writers, would set the world on their ears, very compassionate... but Mo.
Mr. Wilson did severe damage to your sense of self. Mrs. HD #1 did damage to HD, and Mrs. HD#2 is doing even MORE damage.
A person is only willing to accept abuse from another up and until they point they are willing to abuse themselves. You hit your wall. You know, now, where that point is. You are even having flash back moments....dressing room.
I know EXACTLY where I hit my abuse point with my xH. And that is not to say our spouses are inherently abusive people. It's just that with weak boundaries... it will happen... 'cuz we all just want to 'get along.' Getting along SUCKS. It will make wet noodles out of all of us.
Boundaries are the exilir of life. I guarantee you will have very strong boundaries on certain things in your next R. You will also find where your other boundaries are weak... and I'm willing to bet, given your intelligence, that you will fix it, no matter how hard.
Not to say that HD is not intelligent, nor can he see where he needs to draw boundaries. He knows exactly where to draw the line. He just doesn't want to, because he is a compassionate soul at heart. He is a lover, not a fighter. And he is --> <-- this close to his breaking point.
Break, I say. His life will change.
His projection upon his daughter and how she might feel if things go kaput... is HIS projection. He is letting an event that has not yet come to pass... influence his behavior.
Are you trying to say that by the HD losing interest, the LD will pick up interest and fill the void? I can see that being a theoretical possibility in some marriages, but I don't see it in mine nor in HD's. That's REALLY pushing my limit of credulity.
Cobra, the only thing I'm going to say in response to this is...when I do lose interest to an extent in my marriage, be it because I'm preoccupied with other things, or I'm physically tired...what have you. I've have noticed that my H's interest in sex becomes more pronounced. I know I am not dealing with a typical LD person, but when it comes to initating he is LD...even though he's improving.
I consider this "losing interest" as dropping the rope for me...in a sense it was my way of letting go of the pressure I was putting on "us", on my H. In the past year I've lost track of how many times he's stepped up when for whatever reason I've stepped back. Oh and I'm not saying that will work for everyone either...but I also haven't seen you or HD completely drop the rope either. Dropping the rope feels too much like giving up to us HD folks...so it's very hard for us to do in order to have it really have the proper affect on our M.
Or maybe he'll find an ex-matron from a prison... someone who's as strong-willed as you (with the same body) but with none of your jolliness or kindness. She's 15 years OLDER than he, and she'll grimly set about the mission of turning him into a goose-stepping productive member of society, with a 9-5 job, 5-mile runs before dawn, and a diet of rare meat and raw vegetables.
Well, this is certainly the woman who would fit the dark side of his bandwidth so you may be right. Actually, in a weird way, my STBX and MsHD would make a good couple.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
