Yeah I should have said that part of the issue is: you are not getting something you want from your W and that that issue makes you doubt how your W feels about you. I agree that it may not be the whole or main issue.
Quote:
The actual problem is that MsHD utterly invalidates HD's desire for sex. This is exactly the same as telling him how he should or shouldn't feel.
Wouldn't the actual problem be WHY MsHD feels she needs to invalidate HD's desire? (My xH felt a need to totally invalidate my feelings because my hurt feelings caused HIM to feel extreme pain which he unconsciously needed to avoid to protect himself. Whew. It seems convoluted but it is what was happening in his head)
This is where I think both of them are probably part of this issue. Of course her extreme views on sex and men are an issue. This just screams to me as someone whose is not comfortable with being a woman. Has MsHD always had this extreme hatred and disdain for sex in their relationship? If not, then there are probably other issues where HD can help.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Yes, I say some pretty awful things about her here. This is where I come to vent, to get sh!t off my chest. I do this so that I can face her with a calm, loving attitude.
I guess that is my very point HD. Don't do that anymore. It's clearly not working, right? Until you can truly feel for her the way a loving H should feel for his W, the sex issue in your M is going to be the dead end you say it is. It's like there are two HD's inside you. The one on this board (probably the more authentic one) and the one you present at home (Mr Nice Guy). You need to meld those two parts of yourself into one. Just my opinion.
All right, Fearless, I'm going to pick on you a little bit because I know you and feel safe doing so.
Wouldn't the actual problem be WHY MsHD feels she needs to invalidate HD's desire?
Sure. But then you say...
My xH felt a need to totally invalidate my feelings because my hurt feelings caused HIM to feel extreme pain which he unconsciously needed to avoid to protect himself.
If not, then there are probably other issues where HD can help.
What were the other issues in your M where you could have helped?
What did you need to do to save your M and why didn't you do it?
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
This is where I think both of them are probably part of this issue.I admit that I am part of this issue. My threads are full of my admissions of fault. I'm just trying to figure out why I continue to put forth great effort on a daily basis to show her I love her in the ways she has clearly indicated to me, in spite of any faults she has, while my faults continue to be used as excuses by her to not put forth anything more than the most nominal of efforts? Of course her extreme views on sex and men are an issue. This just screams to me as someone whose is not comfortable with being a woman. Has MsHD always had this extreme hatred and disdain for sex in their relationship? If not, then there are probably other issues where HD can help.Early in the relationship, we did have some pretty good sex. She seemed to enjoy it, she initiated it some of the time, and although she seemed pretty conservative in her sexual repertoire (compared to my ex, and to some girlfriends), it didn't seem to be a problem at the time. And I made it quite clear that I enjoyed it and that I wanted to continue doing it.
I listened to a chunk of Mating in Captivity this morning on the way to town, and I heard something that made me have benevolent feelings toward Mrs. HD and a teeny, weeny 4-watt light bulb came on over my head.
One thing you have to say for Mrs. HD is that she will NOT have inauthentic sex. If she doesn’t feel like it, she bydamn won’t do it. Now she’s going about it in a heavy-handed way, but the fact is, she is holding y’all’s sex life to a very high standard, and she won’t put out until that standard is reached (which, granted, may never happen).
MiC talks about how Americans are very goal-oriented and driven. Even with the problem of sex and desire, we divide it into parts, apply practical solutions to each part, and voila! “the thing should start now!” She said problems of desire cannot necessarily be solved in a systematic, just-do-it kind of way (apologies to Michele). Desire is wild and cannot be manufactured or controlled.
If you happen to be in Borders and pick up a copy of MiC, read the case of Ryan and Cynthia (at least I think it’s Cynthia… the guy is Ryan for sure). Their SL had fallen off due to children, and they really missed the passion of their early pre-child days. (The sitch is NOT totally like yours.) Ryan started having fantasies about a mutual friend that Cynthia had gone to school with, Barbara. Both women had been in the Peace Corps. Cynthia came home; Barbara never did, and led a free, unfettered life—but she was also single, childless, and unanchored. Ryan developed a crush on Barb and couldn’t stop thinking about her. (This made me think of you saying you were ripe for an A—that feeling may not be a bad thing, although of course, acting on it would not be good). Ryan went out to dinner with the two women. After a bottle of wine, Cynthia started opening up to her friend about how she wondered if her life with Ryan and the kids was worth it. She felt confined, tied down. She envied her friend with her free life. Ryan was stunned. If they had been alone, he probably would have interrupted her, but since Barb was there he just let her talk. And of course, if they had been alone and not drinking, C probably wouldn’t have said anything. As she talked, he began to feel very close to her, knowing that SHE felt confined just as he did. He was hurt a little bit that she didn’t acknowledge the sacrifices HE had made and what he had given up for her (he gave up acting to become a lawyer), but the main effect of the experience was to enable him to see her as A Stranger… he lost his crush on Barb and wanted his w more than he had in ages. He also had the insight that if he had married Barb, he’d probably be lusting after Cynthia.
The question I would ask you about your W is: when does Mrs. HD feel MOST FREE?
You can't "should" feelings.... they are what they are
Huh? So we have no control over our feelings? We can't change our attitudes and thoughts to put ourselves in a better emotional place? Well I guess cognitive theory is wrong then. And when I said "should" it's quite obvious I meant typical loving traits such as respect, understanding, blah blah. Those are a given in most people's definitions of a loving M.
I'm wondering - do you see my participation in sex with you as part of my wifely responsibilities? If so, then let's call it sex, for that's what it is. I might be able to grit my teeth and force myself to do this if it's what you need to stay married.
Okay,now I'm mad. I'll meet you at the St.Louis "Morgan" this weekend.(There has to be some kind of booksale going on that I can use as a write-off.). I am willing to risk the wrath of MsHD in a womano-vs-womano showdown. It will be oldschoolradicalmanbashingfeminism vs. whatevermybrandoffeminismisthatletsmeenjoyf*cking. I will wear my power heels AND my new black dress that I almost pop out of. I predict that I will be flashing "V" for Victory and other things.
"Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life?" - Mary Oliver
We can't change our attitudes and thoughts to put ourselves in a better emotional place?
Being in a better emotional place is not the same as having control over our feelings. Trying to control your feelings, rather than simply accepting them for what they are, is a good path toward compulsion.
Well I guess cognitive theory is wrong then.
Is it possible?
And when I said "should" it's quite obvious I meant typical loving traits such as respect, understanding, blah blah. Those are a given in most people's definitions of a loving M.
You seem to be taking a lot of things personally today.
Stop WaitingFeel EverythingLove AchinglyGive ImpeccablyLet Go
