I do not completely understand your situation but as an outsider I will jump in with my POV which is different and hopefully useful.
Instead of viewing her response as a tangent, look for what she may be saying in her e-mail. (Of course her response was tangential to your e-mail's content but not necessarily to HER issues)
"Is it that if I agree to do something I really don't want to do for you, that you will then believe I love you?"
So - the obvious questions for me the outsider, do you want her to do something she does not want to do and do you believe she loves you? If not, what is the risk at this point in time of putting it out there? IMHO, it does seem that the bigger issue is that you are not getting something you want from your W and that that issue makes you doubt how your W feels about you.
This is part of what I think you are feeling and , if so, it would be good to express to your W at this critical time in your M:
MsHD, In answer to this question of yours "Is it that if I agree to do something I really don't want to do for you, that you will then believe I love you?"
It is not that I want you to do something that you do not want to do; I want you to want to make love with me out of love for me. The second half of this question is even more critical to me. I do want to believe that you love me and I am not sure how to believe it.
HD
That is all I would write IF this comes close to capturing your true feelings. Everything else she throws at you is just noise and confusion which drives you off your main point. So the more you write, the more she can focus on tangential points. The only ways I can see she can respond to the above statement is to 1) tell you that she does love you (a good starting point), 2) tell you that she does not (pretty doubtful but I guess it would be better to know now), or 3) veer off into the question of how does she know that you love her. (Something that would need to be addressed also.) I think that any of these directions would be useful.
Oh and even more importantly, I have Kansas facing OSU in my brackets:) Of course being a big time Buckeye, I also have OSU winning!!
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
It seems to me that you need to start LIKING your W again. And even better, make sure she starts liking you back. Otherwise, it is going to be "just sex" and she is NEVER going to agree to it. Stop blaming feminism (even her faulty version) and start looking at your own attitudes.
It seems to me that you need to start LIKING your W again. And even better, make sure she starts liking you back. Otherwise, it is going to be "just sex" and she is NEVER going to agree to it. Stop blaming feminism (even her faulty version) and start looking at your own attitudes.
Hunh?? WTF??
Hairdog's attitude (at least as it has been communicated to us) has been patient (to a fault?), loving, respectful and calm. In return, he's gotten hypercriticism, attacks, sarcasm and rage from his wife.
Sorry to be so "black-and-white" but I just don't see where this is Hairdog's doing.
I would challenge you to find anything remotely brutal about any of the words I've exchanged with her.
You don't need to come out and say any harsh words TO her to make an impact on her. My H was the same way. Never said a harsh word but clearly was falling apart inside. And the words you write on this board HD clearly demonstrate your resentments and anger towards her. I'm sure she can feel that at home in your interactions, or lack thereof. But I think you are right, you are reaching your own breaking point right now and the tide is going to have to turn one way or another. Sorry she is battening down the hatches. LFL
IMHO, it does seem that the bigger issue is that you are not getting something you want from your W and that that issue makes you doubt how your W feels about you.
This is part of what I think you are feeling
I don't believe this is the actual problem. The actual problem is that MsHD utterly invalidates HD's desire for sex. This is exactly the same as telling him how he should or shouldn't feel.
She tells him that his desire/want/need for sex isn't legitimate and therefore it's not an issue she needs to address. She doesn't believe there's value in negotiating, compromising or discussing because she doesn't believe there's a problem, except in his mind.
She believes she understands his sexuality better than he does.
(edited to add...) KU still sucks.
Last edited by Burgbud; 03/20/0703:29 PM.
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fearless: It's hard to accept any advice coming from you, after expressing your delusion belief that OSU will defeat Kansas... however, your point is well taken. But wait: Why is it that, after two, three, four years of me doing everything/anything to try to show her how much I love her, that she can so easily deflect my wants/needs? My wanting her to want to make love with me out of love for me is a true statement. It's a concept to which she refuses to give any credibility. I'm trying to show her, by not dropping the issue, that she ignores it at her peril.
Choco, see my last post. How can you say HD is loving and respectful after knowing full well that he has been on this board for YEARS saying some very unloving things about his W? I'm not saying she is not a ball buster, but he needs to stop being passive-aggressive and step up to the plate. He seems to be doing that more now but it is still coming from a place of strong dislike for her. If he could gain some empathy and respect for her again, I think his M would have a chance of working. And she'd probably sense that at home and be more willing to have sex. But holding on to the anger is not going to get him anywhere but D court.
The actual problem is that MsHD utterly invalidates HD's desire for sex. This is exactly the same as telling him how he should or shouldn't feel.
BINGO.
Quote:
She believes she understands his sexuality better than he does.
Yes. And my fault-ridden personal philosophy, etc.
Also, with regards to how I come across to her, it's kind of peculiar, but I just spoke to her on the phone and we had a laugh about something going on with DD5. It really is like these email conversations are going on between two other people, at times.
The deal is, I really do enjoy being with her most of the time, and make no secret of that. We make each other laugh. We like similar things (food, entertainment, politics) and we both genuinely care for our DD5. There's plenty of good stuff here.
It really is like these email conversations are going on between two other people, at times.
Exactly! You are not being your honest and true self with her. You put on the "everything's fine" attitude with her like just now over the phone when all of this chaos is still going on between the two of you. It's just very "fake" for lack of a better word. There is no real intimacy and thus no sex/love.
If he could gain some empathy and respect for her again, I think his M would have a chance of working.
I actually have a lot of respect for my wife, and have been attempting to be more empathetic of late (over the past 9 months, actually, as she attacked my lack of empathy on or about July 4 last year). But this inferential leap:
Quote:
And she'd probably sense that at home and be more willing to have sex.
-is a dead end. She could think I'm a cross between Ghandi and the Dalai Lama, and she'd still say "no."
Yes, I say some pretty awful things about her here. This is where I come to vent, to get sh!t off my chest. I do this so that I can face her with a calm, loving attitude. It doesn't often make a difference to her, at least so far as her "desire" for me is concerned. She may or may not feel desire, I don't know. Her actions, however, clearly show that whatever desire she might feel, doesn't require any action by her beyond a nominal kiss or hug.
however, your point is well taken. But wait: Why is it that, after two, three, four years of me doing everything/anything to try to show her how much I love her, that she can so easily deflect my wants/needs? My wanting her to want to make love with me out of love for me is a true statement. It's a concept to which she refuses to give any credibility. I'm trying to show her, by not dropping the issue, that she ignores it at her peril.