actually I want to make it work with H for d9 and for me. Can't see never loving H. Stuck with that, so to speak. I realize I could love someone else and I really do get that. But What I WANT is to give it a try with him up there, with lots of sunshine breaks so I don't go nuts, and making something professional happen up there that feels meaningful, and eventually returning here, where it feels like home to me. Not worried about people's opinions on me staying in California or them thinking I'm selfish. (OK, I guess if someone actually told me I was doing something "morally wrong", it would bother me a bit) No, but I am a bit worried about d's perceptions of me going on up there--being a doormat, caving in, etc.
In the end, I have to go on gut b/c the pros and cons are variable and endless and not all that easy to assess accurately. It's like you said, "hold your breath and jump in". Regardless of certainties. I HATE MOVING AGAIN...but hey, we were in the military so it's not like I don't know how to do it. So yes, looks like I'm going up there. If a betrayal of some sort happens between now and then, OR after, I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I will not fall apart or go through this again, no matter what. Like you said, (or someone) "this MLC/LBSer thing is pretty much a once in a life time deal".
How are YOU and your H doing? Any anger triggers? And suggestions about handling them? A PMA is essential and really really easy to say. Not so easy to have. Can you give me the name of that other forgiveness book you recommended? I have one called "total forgiveness" but I think I need one with practical suggestions for dealing with the "surprise" triggers. Those things ruin my time NOW and that is just not okay. Same with going up there with a crappy attitude in front of d9. Hence the need to "get happy" with it. What most helped you with your H and feeling that you could trust enough to go forward? I know, NO guarantees and there never were any anyhow. Thinking there were guarantees was always an illusion. Got that. But just as there are red flags to us about bad things, there are signs of "making it" too. I know I don't want to be in a sitch like this again in 10 years. Man, life is toooo short. Already just have one kid left at home....can't believe how fast that went. See, there are times I wish I did have 8!!
Last but not least, I read somewhere about LBSers having MLCs of their own later on. I know I'll never give myself a label that justifies doing lousy things. But I think we LBSers do focus so much and so long on reconciling with WASs, we overlook the other things going on within. Like for one, when the WAS is gone and we don't know what the hell is going to happen, many of us GAL and start moving forward as if the WAS is not coming back. There starts to be an awareness that Not ALL things are bad without WASs there. In fact, we start to see the upside of making choices without having to think of our partners wants, or someone else's needs, etc. We start doing things we always wanted to do, pursuing new interests or old ones we had cast aside b/c we had new duties and had to care for our families, accomodate the spouses needs, or somehow had just let slide, erc. WE change. WE grow.
About 6 months ago I started to ask myself where I would like to live if I could live anywhere I wanted to...for the first time in 25 years, I just thought about myself, taking d9 with me and maybe teaching English overseas one semester a year, changing jobs/careers, marketing my screenplay here, moving back east to family, and getting my master's in theater, maybe a teaching credential. etc. I started to feel pretty good about my future, with or without H. Started directing and did some productions that went really well. Better than I could have hoped. Really helped provide a sense of direction, pardon the pun.
So, now that "we" are working things out, it changes things. I think it's what the guy meant when he talked of a MLC for the LBSer. He had moved on and when his wife came back he didn't know wth he wanted anymore. I'm not in that position, but I understand it.
Let me know what's going on with your business and what's the sitch with your H working from home? How is THAT going? And your older daughter with H, how is their R? What helped/hurt their R?
Hope all is well. Still, NO to Brazilian waxing....oooowwww just thinking about it. But hey, I AM....well, let's just say I'm "well groomed." Thanks for all your support. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Last but not least, I read somewhere about LBSers having MLCs of their own later on. I know I'll never give myself a label that justifies doing lousy things. But I think we LBSers do focus so much and so long on reconciling with WASs, we overlook the other things going on within. Like for one, when the WAS is gone and we don't know what the hell is going to happen, many of us GAL and start moving forward as if the WAS is not coming back. There starts to be an awareness that Not ALL things are bad without WASs there. In fact, we start to see the upside of making choices without having to think of our partners wants, or someone else's needs, etc. We start doing things we always wanted to do, pursuing new interests or old ones we had cast aside b/c we had new duties and had to care for our families, accomodate the spouses needs, or somehow had just let slide, erc. WE change. WE grow.
J, It is all very different and I presume everyone goes through their own different issues.
I think that there are times when I ask myself what the hell I am doing. Not because I don't love my Husband, but because I didn't make any conditions or require anything of him.
Actually I did make one request. I asked that for the first year he is home that nobody, including his Mother or mine would be allowed to come and visit. He agreed.
He is not the same man that walked out of my front door, he is different and in some ways better. I have not asked questions, and when he shares bits and pieces, I listen or I may say "how did that make you feel"?
The thing that gets to me at times is that he doesn't really understand the full extent of what happened to our family or the damage that was done to me or the kids.
It is not my place right now to tell him, I want him to take things slowly, when he is ready emotionally. I have changed alot. I am more easy going and less neurotic. I am no longer riding everyone's arse and being the task master. I am learning to let things go as much as I can.
I guess one of the biggest things that goes through my head is the reality of things. I was supposed to be the most important person in his life and the fact that he really did leave me and act as if he didn't care about me or the kids or worry about what would happen to us.
I sometimes think that maybe it should be my turn now to be free. Maybe I should get on a plane and go find myself. To be carefree and spend money frivolously and act like a teenager.
Could I ever walk out of the door and not look back? Sometimes I think I could but there is strong sense of responsibility and moral fibre in my being that prevents me from taking these thoughts to the next level.
From what I understand all of the things that go through my head are perfectly normal.
I try to look at this whole MLCBS as a season in my life that is basically over and a new season is begining.
Hope that made a little sense to you.
((((Faith))))
By the way, the book you were asking about is called How Can I Forgive You?
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
I understand exactly 100% of what you wrote and feel identical feelings. THAT is what has confused me all this time. I feel that H just wants to pick up where we/he left off and move forward and be " a better husband" (his words)....and that.... is... that.
I mean, this was not a weekend getaway he went on. This was not One bad choice. And it shook/cracked and damaged the FOUNDATION of my core and our M. It had tremendous impact on our older daughter and our son for sure. I also think d9 to a lesser extent (who can say who was the most hurt??) D17 said today she does not have "deep" discussions with H. I asked if it's b/c he doesn't bring them up or b/c she does not want to have them with him. She said, "both." Recall when she said she was "glad she no longer cares about" H? Ouch.
SO, conditions.....yep, I know what you mean. Yet we don't want to spoil the "now" moments by "dragging up the past" as H would say. But I really wonder wth conditions we can do anyhow. "Don't lie again", "Don't make secret decisions and ignore my wishes again"??? "No more Leaving"??!! Seems damn reasonable to me. But there are times that H gets mad at ME for any complaint or negative comment and says things like "Why should I feel guilty?" Later on he'll apologize and act normal again. But most of his apologies are dragged out of him or said begrudgingly.....that's how I take it anyhow. I think maybe I want him to "really really get what he did". But is that alright, and even if it is alright to want, how does one do it?
Right now, I just avoid R talks unless he brings them up. He does btw. But it's all lovey dovey without gratitude for me sticking this out. Just "looking ahead b/c we have a Great future....we're great together...."etc. Other times he brings up financial problems that we now have B/C of HIS choices....and it gets hard for me not to say "of course we're broke you idiot, you spent ALL of our savings!" But instead, I listen to him say "WE" have to cut here and there and "budget" and "plan" together....(Now there is a "we"). So there is a lot of anger holding me back and I have to lose it soon. Hence, venting here....
I also think the thing holding me back from just going up there to try it out, is that it felt like the last thing on earth I should do FOR him....b/c he'd been so selfish. But see, then that seems punitive. Not really forgiving. So here we are, swinging from one end to the other. Reconnecting in love and thanking God, and hating h the next minute, or at least not knowing who he is or why I loved him so much. He is a stranger to me in so many ways now. I think I'll follow your lead and not react to the people he brings up from the life of his I don't know. Also don't want to ask much about any OW, since I don't have much evidence of one and he denies it strongly, why pry?
I am not the same woman I was. I am a better woman b/c of this. Lately I have been backsliding in MY personal growth program, reverting to old ways of feeling like a victim of H's selfishness.....okay, I was a victim of his selfishness. But I do want closure in SOME form, and I want to live onward, no more looking back... And I want my PMA back, the one I had when I really detached from all this.
Basically saying, everything you wrote has been inside of me, and in some ways holding me back. The sense of injustice makes me feel no real closure. I'm standing in the doorway and hoping the earthquake passes....if these mood swings are anything like menopause, bring on the drugs.... j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
J, The book really does help us to understand what it is that we need.
It explains things in a way that I can not really explain myself.
I think what both you and I want is some type of validation and heartfelt apology from our Husband's acknowledging that what they have done to our families was beyond selfish, it was destructive, even assinine (sp).
We may get one, we may not.
I do know that it was my choice to accept my Husband back into the family. I didn't have to but I do love this man and I also want normalcy for my children.
They have all been through so much already that I feel by allowing my Husband back it will also be good for them, not just me.
There are no guarantees J, none at all. We can only hope that their MLC taught them to appreciate their family and the blessings that they have.
I do know that I hate the lonliness and the stress of being a single Mom to so many children. BUT I survived and I became stronger then I had to be and I learned so much about myself.
I will NOT ever do this again, if he decides to leave again I will not be standing. I am no longer afraid.
That is the difference between who I was and who I have become.
There can be no testimony without a test. I am praying to go through this test and come out the other end with a new and better marriage then before.
It looks like he only wants to look forward, and not look back. Maybe it is all the guilt he feels. And I wonder if he was always this way about apologizing, some men seem to feel less than manly if they have to say I'm sorry. Maybe if you two are one day living together again, he will gradually start to open up to you with these feelings. Yall probably have to almost get to know each other again. And he is now saying "we"; that's a good thing, isn't it? L
first, B- all I can say to your comments is "Amen". I really do want a heartfelt apology and some genuine insight on his part, about how miuch he hurt me and our children and the M. Like you said, though, might not get one. Sometimes I think, "what the heck am I doing with him if he isn't "getting it"? But like you, I love my H, warts and all, and I do think it'll help d9 a lot to have us both in the same house getting along. Hopefully H won't spew about my not working outside the home again, which was his excuse for having to get the 6767th credential....blah blah blah. If I can get a job that helps people or is creative, I'm all over it.
VC, in a way you are right about the apologies. H was always pretty reluctant though not completely, to apologize for something. When he was sorry, or wanted to make up, He'd be affectionate and make peaceful overtures or gestures and yet not say anything. I am a "words" person and need to hear an apology OR something that tells me you won't hurt me again that way. H would see that I was still upset (talking now of the past in general) and act as if I was "holding onto my anger." Well, yeah I guess I was. But I honestly feel and believe that if I got the heartfelt regrets/recognition of whatever it was and it not happening again, I'd drop the matter. It's when you aren't sure that they really get it, when you fear that it means it could happen again at any time b/c to them, whatever it was just wasn't that big a deal....THAT"S when it's hard to just let it go.
I told my H the other day that when he says something about the past 2 years that indicates his regret, or that he wants to make up for lost time with the girls, IT HELPS!! H said, "really?" Me: Heck yes it helps. So I think he'll say that stuff more. Geez, how could it not help?
Gotta go and talk to the principal about why d9 is so late all the time. It's me and my disorganization and maybe depression. So hard to get up in the morning b/c I don't sleep well.
Thanks for posting guys- j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Yeah, that not sleeping well is a bummer. As for the being late, that is one thing I have had to work on, too. And being unorganized, I am at the top of that list.
Tell me about it, if my H ever says anything about regrets about his past behavior, it would really help, but I think he, too, just wants to look forward.
It sounds like you are thinking more positively, and maybe with a little anticipation about things.
J- I can understand the sense of being betrayed - I think almost all of us on these BBs feel them strongly one time or another. As for the focusing forward part of your husband, remember that men (for better or worse) like to fix things. Until such time my WAW dropped the bomb, I have to admit that I had no clue as to what "listening" needed to be. Even now, there are times when I have to restrain myurge to fix during conversations with her. It is a hard thing to understand - try and have him read the 5LL book (you seem to have a good enough relationship that he should be able to do so), and explain what your LL is to him - I know that it would be best if he already knew (hey, I am still scratching my head over what my wife's LL is - classic guy, go figure). In his own mind, he might be feeling that he has already apologized and being the guy that he is, he wants to move on (part of the fix). Have a good day, and do get some sleep..
I'm doing alright today. H is coming for d17's birthday (18!) and just want to have some good bonding time together. Logistics of moving up there are so overwhelming I can't go there. Don't have to now either. Focussing on d17 right now. Hoping she and H will heal their R with time and get close. She always was the "neglected" one, in his life. His residency in her early years, (she used to be afraid of him b/c he was home so little she didn't know him) and then these past 2 years. It is a good thing that children are so forgiving. thank God. j-
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
