Other Woman's Perspective

[attorneytom]

I guess time will tell !?

If it was that is indeed very sad ...

or.. maybe not ? Someone is struggling deep inside about life.

Tom

[verycrazy]

Maybe she is struggling with good and bad. I hope good wins out.
L

[25yearsmlc]

ditto VC. She may be struggling with her conscience and knows at some level she is rationalizing something she once deplored....and was a victim of....weird.
j-

[runningoutoftime]

I've read that too... sometimes it's a kind of subconscious revenge thing. Where, since it happened to them, they'll do it too. Also they see the OW who destroyed their marriage as having "more power" and end up replicating it... at a subconscious level that is.....

The other thing to be aware of is the effect on kids. For example, one thing I read is that sometimes women who get involved with married men have fathers who had affairs. They see mom as being weak and unattractive (not having husband's interest), while OW is the attractive one (that's who dad treats well and seems most interested in), and ends up being the "role model" of who they want to be since being loved, admired and attractive to men is so important to women -- particularly young women who are just trying on different roles. Very sad...

[25yearsmlc]

Hey VC/Running,

Very interesting theory about fathers cheating. I believe that and since you mentioned it, I can now recall several examples.

Here's a thought/question for you. We all talk about doing the right thing, being moral, responsible AND we also talk about being happy, finding joy and the pursuit of happiness, etc. I GENUINELY BELIEVE that I cannot end up happy IF I feel I did a selfish thing of significance. SO, IMHO, IF we choose the selfish way or hurt an innocent person knowingly, how is it possible to be happy?

Jackie Kennedy Onassis was quoted as saying something about motherhood that struck me: "If I fail as a mother, nothing else I do in my life will matter."

This is why I cannot seem to wrap my brain around H's behavior (No OW that I know of, knock on wood) the past 2 years. Very selfish and SEEMS to be oblivious to that. Just wants us to pick up where we left off before he left. Called me a "liar" for saying I was working on forgiving, b/c he says I have not forgiven him. Well, I am working on it, but him calling me a liar is so out of line, so hypocritical I almost laughed. Back to earth, do you guys get the question? Does 2sides? I mean, just thinking of HER for a moment....I cannot believe she is a good person AND would be happy knowing she was putting her wishes/passions ahead of others including the man she says she loves, b/c this A will end up damaging HIS life as well as the innocent child and GF...she did not sound evil, but conflicted. But the rationalizations are dangerous. When I did criminal law, I was often amazed at what people could justify in their minds. LOTS of bad things. So, I try to watch myself for that, the rationalizing and calling it the "right thing" to do, etc. Very dangerous.
Dangerous to our soul and dangerous to our own happiness.
j-

[runningoutoftime]

I think people are in different places in their heads at different times of their lives (i.e. teens, young adult, parenthood, middle age, etc...), and we all grow up with a different set of experiences and values; our parents, the things we watch on TV, our careers, the people we socialize with, our closest friends, genetics... everything can have an affect on how we gauge life. Seeking out happiness is very individual, and we do live in a society that doesn't necessarily discourage poor behavior. If your closest friends are all having affairs you might find it easier to participate, or at least come up with what seems like perfectly good reasons for engaging in one. Also, one can find ways to validate just about anything. Law is a perfect example of that!

[25yearsmlc]

Running,

point well taken. Not all L's are jerks but I really do hear so much about litigation for idiocy in our society, I feel ashamed of my profession at times. But then I remember that for every wacky Lawyer, there is a client in the office whining about being a victim and or wanting to punish someone, be "declared right", etc. Anyhow, to me, what makes someone a "truly good person" is consciously and consistently making good moral choices. We slip now and then b/c we are human. But we try to think of others when we make a choice that affects them. We are AWAKE and AWARE of consequences... Recently I was watching tv and noticing how Hollywood shoves their agenda down our throats and God forbid we object or voice discomfort with something, b/c then we are made to look extreme. I watched HGTV ( I have to figure out how to fix things anyway) the other day, I noticed that ALL 3 "couples" were "engaged" to be married but had already moved into their homes, one was pregnant and a 2nd one had a child from someone else Unmarried, etc.....None of the 3 couples got married before buying a house, which used to the norm. And 2 of the 3 were very vague about the wedding date. And they are on tv in front of millions advertising the fact that they live together NOW and MAY get married sometime....later....but please help us decorate...."

Then last night there were several gay couples. I am not homophobic but I do worry about what the messages are to the kids. Sometimes it is as if there are simply NO rules and NO absolutes, which means everything is situational and relative...and amoral. I feel as if vaues no longer have value, pardon the pun.

Sorry to preach but I sometimes notice what we are all sort of going along with in our social circles. I have said to one adulterous friend that I did not approve of her behavior, never wanted to be a part of it (as in being around her and OM) and did not believe that her H was "okay" with it. Later her H divorced her and I swear to God she complained that he had no "Fu-----" reason to leave her. All I could think of saying was, "well in fact the 'f------' is EXACTLY why he left you...." I told her she was playing with fire and got burned and she told me to basically keep that to myself. So, I said "fine, but don't ask for my approval either...." Point being, while I don't literally condemn her and I did not 'disown' her, I voiced my opinion and she heard it. I think if a few people told each adulterer or potential adulterer what they were really doing, there would be less of it. I just am tired of being silent about this stuff. I sure won't be if my kid acts out like a WAS... Okay, preaching over. thanks for letting me vent with my social commentary-
j-

[verycrazy]

I absolutely agree with you 25 yrs. I, too am tired of the rationalization of immoral people. I will never stand up and say adultery is okay, nor will I teach my child that being gay is just an alternative lifestyle. I also will not say that living together before marriage is alright, either. Someone has to step up and say that morality is not extreme. I am not homophobic either, I have no fear of gay people, I love all people, but I know it's wrong. If God said it, I believe he meant it. And I will be held accountable for what I teach my child. The Bible says it is better for you if a millstone were placed around your neck and you were thrown into the sea if you cause a little one to stumble. And that is what teaching the wrong morals or teaching none does to our children, it causes them to stumble.

This may sound extreme to some, but it's what I believe, and I will never deny my faith.
L

[25yearsmlc]

VC,

saying that "morality is not extreme" is a Great phrase. Granted, there are bigger things to worry about in the world, than couples living together before M, etc. And I feel hypocritical to feel this way, but if I were to date again, Way down the road--I think I'd want to KNOW that we were compatible in bed before making vows. Doesn't make me a slut but it is inconsistent with some of my other values. Since I hope never to confront this issue, I can shut up about it. But wanted to admit even I find gray areas. Still, even IF there are gray areas, there are also black and white ones too. There are absolutes. Love is good, hate is not. One thing I heard at a self improvement workshop (which was actually given by a therapist who was also a minister but never told anyone that in the workshop b/c so many people have baggage with organized religion) that was a modern way of talking about morality was this: "Broken agreements make messy lives." Ain't that the truth? The OW's perspective, when she is honest with herself, is strong evidence of that statement's truth. There IS such a thing as right and wrong.

My H is coming next weekend for d17's 18th birthday. So is my sil and niece so big talks won't happen. But that's okay. I think now for me and maybe you as well, is the time for just bonding with fun stuff done together, and building on it. Know what I mean? Renting some comedies to watch also. Laughing is SO important to do together, it's like mental foreplay to me. Well, these comments are better on a diff thread so I'll sign off this one for now. I notice the 2sided hasn't said much lately. I really hope and pray that she'll see her part in a bad situation, which could get so much worse for all concerned. Even if this guy is "the love of her life" (which I do NOT believe for a minute) it STILL would not be worth the pain she has inflicted.

Last note: My uncle left my aunt years ago, for another woman. Two things that might be of note to an OW are that 1) the OW married my uncle. A decade later she called my aunt to see if her H -my uncle- was there with my aunt. This meant he was still cheating on his wife, no matter who the wife was/is. My aunt said at that moment, she felt relieved to realize that if she had stayed married to my uncle, her M would have continued to give her heartbreaks. He had done her a favor. 2) even my uncle knew he'd caused a lot of pain in others. He confided in his mother, that "IF he'd known how much pain he'd be causing, he never would have left" my aunt. Food for thought.
j-

[verycrazy]

25yrs,
Even if two-sides doesn't respond, I hope she will read what everyone has said here, and get some idea of how the families feel and what they go through when an intruder steps into a marriage. and that maybe more than anything will let her see that she needs to step back out of the situation she has allowed herself to get into. I just couldn't imagine that she has too many friends to confide in, because they are probably afraid she will go after their H's or BF's. I imagine the ow in my sitch has friends who are probably a little wary of her, if she has even told them my H is M. But for them not to tell her she is wrong, also tells you the quality of people she surrounds herself with.

Yall must have a lot of workshops put there, I think I have read about others you have attended, and I wish we had more here. I guess that is why I read so many books, instead. And the saying "broken agreements make messy lives" couldn't be more true. Boy do we ever see it in every post here.

I think I will go to your thread and post there and dig up my old thread started by InPain, or as she has been called lately InBliss.

L