Journey of a Happy Heart 2

[always_14]

Oh yes..I wanted to add and agree with COG.

I would jsut state the financial facts. Not stuff about disrespect, etc. It's lost now, and anyone can figure that out, and he probably knows it.

Just keep it to the point, about finances and timing. About the windows the vacation and whatever.

You will just get frustrated making a point to someone who cannot take it now.

[princess_nic]

Thank you Always and Was2.

Always -

I do not want to separate out any money w/o a legal agreement b/c I don't want to set a precedent. This is impt b/c of the question of whether or not I will receive spousal support. I have to be very careful about that.

I have been trying to get the windows done since before Christmas! No one has come to measure yet, and I called again just two weeks ago.

Was 2 - I am planning to go the LS route. I don't think I'm ready for a D yet, although I don't really expect a massive turnaround from H. I can assure you that I'm not rewriting history; I have journals that can attest to that. I am talking to a combination IC/church leader, which has helped a lot. We have been praying about this for several months. She and my pastor are very supportive of my doing whatever I need to, to stay healthy.

Thanks,
N

Edit:

Whoops forgot COG!

Yeah, I figured I'd have to leave that out. Darn. I would stil like an apology though.

[princess_nic]

Not stuff about disrespect, etc. It's lost now, and anyone can figure that out, and he probably knows it.

What's lost now? His respect for me? That's what I'm trying to make him see. He does know that he's not behaving respectfully, though; he's just not man enough to do it.

You're right though; I'm just frustrating myself.

[always_14]

Yep...

The fact that he is not acting respectfully is apparent to anyone, and I suspect even him in his MLC-fogged brain. But, it's justified in that brain too, and not so disrespectful. I really think they honestly don't see it that way either, or don't want too.

Regardless, when they're in the fog, pointing out the obvious, I feel, isn't heard, and also fuel for "see, this is why I can't be with her." Either way, it's pointless and a loss.

So, save the frustration and keep it to the facts.

[amd]

Re. the email: I think you should scratch the cell phone part and everything in purple.

Re. the windows and vent: can that be paid for right now, as Always suggests?

Re. fear of divorce: Me, too.

Nicola, only you know if this is the time to be done. The fact that you know that you love him, that you are not in love with him, and that associating with him brings you down is pretty telling. It's OK to be done!

Love you, Nic. Be well.

[I_Still_Love_Him]

Hi Nicola
I copied my email to you here:

Actually, I was reading your thread last night before heading out to curling and I couldn't respond as I had to run out. As I was reading it, I cried and felt your pain; actually I'm tearing up again here at work. This seems to be the reality for many of us now and MLC or not, sometimes we need to wonder how long must we stand for. We could stand for 5, 10, 15 years and they may not come back and we will have lost precious time. I honestly believe that if we are meant to be together with our WAS, whether we meet someone else or not, it will happen.

Know that your H is so very lost and many of them are and he doesn't know what he wants. By the time he figures out that what he had is what he really wants, it may be too late (and probably will be). I am really sad about the news and I know that you are the better person. Don't let his actions change who you are. Be strong.

It was nice talking to you tonight. You did sound better and while I know you will have difficult moments, know that you WILL become stronger. IMO, you need to take care of yourself and your kids financially and yes, it will mean filing for a LS. Filing for a LS does not mean you will be D and you do not need to file for D unless you decide to remarry.

I believe at this point, your H feels that you will be there waiting for him and while you may still decide to stand, filing for a LS is to protect you. In many cases, when a spouse files for a LS, the WAS may start realizing the reality of what is happening. He may actually start feeling like the LBS and may have second thoughts. Of course, this may not be the case and you should not file for a LS in hopes that this will happen. If you file, it is for your protection.

Before you agree to what you want, know what you are entitled to; you may be entitled to more than you think. I'm not sure how different the laws are in your province from mine. I'm not suggesting that you take your H to the cleaners (although he would deserve it as there is no amount of money that would be enough for the pain he's put you through) but you should go after what the law entitles you to.

Know that even if your H never returns to the M, it was not your fault. Yes, we all play a part but you have stood for longer than most people would have. Trust me when I say that he will never be happy in a long term R because he will never be in one. He will have multiple short-term R only until the "in love" phase fizzes away and then moves on to another R. He has not grown past adolescence and when he finally does grow up, he will realize how many years he wasted. You, OTOH, are so much stronger, wiser, have integrity, morals and are an overall good and beautiful person.

As for your email, I would suggest that at this time, you simply deal with the financials and LS. You have to still maintain a co-parenting R with him and need to stay amicable. I agree that you can set some boundaries with respect to OW not being present at family functions at this point.

God does have plans for you, your kids and yes your H too and you have to believe that what is meant to be will be. You WILL have that happy M that you want with a man who will love and respect you, I know it.

Call me anytime you need to talk. I don't have little ones and am usually up late.

Make it a great weekend and enjoy the ballet tomorrow night.

Much love to you,
ISLH

[I_Still_Love_Him]

Hi Nicola,

Don't know if you've followed DDC's thread but this is a sitch that seemed like it was really over with no possibility of reconciling. He's on the way to winning his W back. Like we spoke yesterday, sometimes, we just need to let go and if we're meant to be together, we will.

DDC's thread

Hugs to you,

[neli]

Nicola.. You have done so well though all of this. You have truly given your 100%.

H is looking out for him. He pretends to have moved on with his life but like you said, he is a coward that is not doing anything legally about it.

Have you seen an attorney? What are your legal rights in Canada?
H is angry with himself. This OW will not benefit from him, she will be hurt also. Maybe in the same way, maybe in a different way.

you have to stand for you and your kids just like you have been doing. What does your gut feeling tell you to do? Listen to it.

Neli

[princess_nic]

First I want to thank all of you for caring and responding.

I had a bad day yesterday, and thank you ISLH for talking to me on the phone. Also FIB--many thanks. You both helped me a lot.

Yesterday, I stupidly called H, which only led to worse feelings. I will repost my narcissism post above:

Thank you very much all of you.

I have checked out some sites, and have read your comments carefully.

At this point, I really don't know about my H. He has always shown some traits of the "soma" narcisist, who uses sex to get women. He has always been very flirtatious and gone from woman to woman (till me, which lasted 16 yrs, or 14 if you include the A he had at the end).

Wonder, what you said really spoke to me. My H is high-achieving, yet felt like a fraude and was constantly afraid of losing his job, or thinking that others were out to get him. He was on meds for anxiety.

Yesterday, he said some strange things to me:

Me: Sometimes I feel really sad that I couldn't be the wife you needed. Do you? That you couldn't be the H I neeeded?

H: No. I am who I am; you are who you are. We didn't have the tools we needed at the time [true--but that doesn't make you sad??]

Me: I also feel guilty about some of the things I did, and I wish I could change them. Do you feel like that?

H: No. I don't like to feel guilty, so I just don't think about anything that might make me feel that way.

Me: I have asked your forgiveness for specific things that I did in our marriage that were hurtful, and you have told me you forgive me. I don't know if you really do or not, but that doesn't matter. It would mean a lot to me if you could apologize for the things that *you* did. Maybe you could write it down; I think that would be easier for you. I only want you to do this if you feel in your heart that you want my forgiveness. [he has never taken responsibility for his part]

H: [this was the shocker] Well, I'm not the kind of person that asks for forgiveness; it's not in my personality. I don't need it.

H: But I can give you a heartfelt *acknowledgement* b/c I certainly did do some things I shouldn't have.

Me: ok



So--he says he's really worked on himself, yet he can't face his guilt, has no regrets [although maybe that's healthy], and doesn't feel the need to apologize or ask for forgiveness.

He told me at one point shortly after he left that he doesn't know how to love, there's something really messed up inside him, he doesn't feel empathy. He said three months ago the same thing: he can't be in an intimate R b/c he can't share himself, there's something very messed up about him. Then, w/in a couple of weeks, he was dating someone knew (w/o telling me until I found out a few days ago). When I asked him about everything he'd said, he told me, "It changed."

The thing is, he had a one-night stand 6 years ago, and was wracked with guilt. He told me that he was so relieved when he went for his final AIDS test after 6 mo that I went with him and he truly felt forgiven. This was a year and a half ago that he told me this! Yet he's not the kind of person who needs forgiveness?

Wonder, I think you are right: he's back into his crazy world since he's with someone new. I don't really think that the "right" person can really take all those feelings of emptiness and inability to love away. But maybe I'm wrong. Actually, that's what hurts the most--maybe I'm wrong and it really is all about me.

Gosh, I didn't mean to go on so much on this thread. I'm going to repost this on my own thread.

I don't even think it really matters, anyway, what his "diagnosis" is. Whoever and whatever he is right now, it's not for me.

Thanks again,
Nicola

The time has come for me to move ahead with the LS. I will see my new lawyer (my original one is now a judge!) and also a financial advisor. After that, I will tell H that I'm ready to see a mediator. I want to get this show on the road. It will be hard--I know that--but at least I will be going somewhere. I have left the control of this situation up to him for too long. I am still writing cheques with his name on them! I still have to tell him if I have a big expense, so he knows. This does not make sense. I think I may have to make some boundaries wrt him being in the house when this is done, but that can wait.

In the meantime, I am going to work out an agreement on my own, with the things I want for sure--the non-negotiables.

Yesterday and today, I took a tranqulizer. I haven't had to do that during the day since he left. I am so sleepy, yet I have a lot of work to do. I will have to find a way to get it done w/o going to sleep!

This is the hardest thing I've ever been through.

Amazingly, H also said some things yesterday that I was happy to hear:

"This is hard on everyone."

"I feel like I've ruined your life, too. But that's not true." [In response to my saying that I felt like he'd ruined my life, and he said it wasn't true.]

At least this shows some humanity.

I am beginning to suspect that he's not really in MLC, or that if he is, it is just exacerbating problems that were already there.

He's right that we didn't have the relationship tools that we have now. I still think it's possible to go back and repair it, but he doesn't. And if he doesn't I MUST let this go.

I know there could be some kind of sudden turnaround, but I don't expect it. I just have to get out of this limbo right now. My heart just can't take it anymore, and I have to be able to take care of myself and my children.

Well, I guess I've gone on long enough!

I hope you all have a good day.

[princess_nic]

Just had to have a nap b/c I took a Rivotril that just knocked me out. I can't believe I'm back to that again.

Anyway, I forgot to add something to the long post above.

I know that my H loved me at one time. I can still see the love in his eyes, and the spark that is now gone. That look has been gone for a few years now, but it was there for longer than he remembers I think. Only gone the last five years, and he's been out of the house for 1.5 of those.

He is not a monster. He may be messed up, as he says, or he may just have been really depressed. He may indeed have found someone with whom he can be happy. A woman who has skills I didn't, and now he has skills he didn't. I only wish it could be us. But if ever I say that (and I'm not in DB mode anymore, so I have), he gets angry. Maybe it makes him feel guilty. Anyway, I guess analyzing isn't going to get me anywhere. It doesn't matter. It's over for him, and it needs to be over for me.