Cobra, thanks for the lengthy reply. I know it takes effort in addition to time to post.
I don’t debate ideas just for the fun of it, so some of your oppositions to what I say on the forum, sound like point proving, which I tend to not see the value. I rather have global solutions. Here goes anyway.
An example is: That picture says yacht, not boat. That’s high livin’ Does it have a grill so you can cook up some vittles? Boat/yacht, I see the picture as hardware consistent with my version of boat material? Certainly not yacht material. It would have to be twice as long to be a yacht, don’t ya think?
Cook up some vittles? Sure if you can make a far" in a 5 gallon bucket. ( "far" southern/hillbilly pronunciation of the word fire) And what do you mean "grill", my car has one but it’s busted. I didn’t know you could use it to cook on!
That is humor. I like it Cobra.
I know you have your opinion and that I will respect. You say I deflect; I say I explain the history behind what happened or didn’t happen. Maybe I give too many details in one area and not enough of something else in my posts.
Lou, it occurs to me that perhaps you have a different idea of what leading means. IMO, leading does not mean trying to find the compromise solution that will make everyone happy. Sure, you might have to do some of that, but a real leader follows his beliefs, his values, his purpose, then gathers those around him who want to follow ideals. So the followers follow willingly.
That statement sounds like I just need to mentally dump BB wishes and wants, her pets and half the family, do my thing and if someone wants to follow me, good! If not, I should have little regard or feelings of obligation for the years we have been together.
I suspect you are saying I need to just lead how it pleases me, and BB will follow. To an extreme, it sounds like an excellent plan for a more skilled or almost perfect leader, if they attracted the correct type of follower. I have skills in many areas and some limitations and tend to work with what I see as reality.
I will admit I have what it takes to do a good job leading in many areas. I will also admit to some, not so skilled leadership areas. Then there is the case of having a spouse that would be considered a good/compatable follower. Not because the spouse is a good or bad person, but because each person wants something different. Then there is the added variable of which direction does this group go.
I have considered M’s a partnership, with one spouse doing what h/she did best, and the other spouse supporting that goal, or not outright trying to destroy a leaders goal.
I saw many of the male leadership marriages back in the 50/60’s. Some couples/spouses very happy and some unhappy. That was when there were “colored” and “white” water fountains in public buildings. My, how things have changed. (just some contrasting history) The concept of leadership vs independence changes too.
I hear you cobra, what does water fountains have to do with your M to BB? The water fountain example is just history.
It is strange how at one time people think one way and at another time think a different way. People look back at what they used to believe in and discover the old way isn’t what was actually correct or a realistic belief.
I listened to the mid-60/70/80/90’s “women are equals” “men are privileged” (e.g. had it too good at women‘s expense) speeches/sound bites, even enrolled in a “Women’s Issues” class in college about 1990. Oh, add in lots of co-dependency books too.
Now, women want leadership! Lead and they will follow? So part of society is back to a modified 50’s model. Sounds good, has some validity, according to what the women and men on this forum post, and what is also in some books. So what di I do with my 1950's "Home Economics" book that states: "Before yout h comes home, pick up the childrens toys, have dinner ready, and freshen up in the bathroom before he opens the door." Just kidding Cobra. I am point out how what is supposed to be right at the time, changes.
Well, I am here to learn and find/practice/develop some of those leadership traits/skills.
I think she agrees with your ideals, or she never would have married you in the first place. When we started our journey, our ideas were more compatible/similar than they are now. I will modify what we had that is usable and what we currently have and/or can make work. I also will dump some ideas that I have to make the R work.
NOP’s dance idea: I still think about it, but thinking is not doing.
Is NOP challenging me to quit being chicken?
If I do it then I have enough fortitude to break my usual MO.
It might shake BB up enough to lead to some type/form of marital improvement.
It might cause more distrust or resentment, for some time period but maybe that is good.
If I do it, it might look like I want female friends more or in addition to BB’s company, or it might look like more than me pursuing an activity such as dancing for the sake of dancing.
Other reasons....... but not now.
Tryingtohold You are responsible for your happiness not your wife Trying, my goal is not to make BB happy but for “US” to be happier and have more common, pleasurable interests and activities.
If she doesn't want to eat out because of that much anxiety then you could try this and say, "Honey I can see you are very stressed so I will take you home. However I don't mind cars or lines so I am going to go ahead and go. Would you like me to bring you something back?" Good solution to a former bad situation. The MC said something similar and added that sometimes I need to accommodate my W’s wishes.
So far, our partial solution is for me to push ahead with what I want most of the time and suggest to BB it’s what I want to do and tell her crowds have not been a real problem before, while acknowledging that she saying she has anxieties.
In another form, avoid telling BB her anxiety is inflated and don’t try to convince her otherwise. don't go intofixing mode.
On busy days like the days before and after Thanksgiving or the days before Christmas, I automatically go to the store alone. Other days I invite her but don't dwell on how many people are at the store. That is my accomodation to BB's problem sofar.
I didn't address all of the topics. I was playing grandpop. If anything was important you feel I missed, call it out. I still have $$$ work to do and am returning to it, along with disposing of a few things.
