2)Get her in touch with her feelings and what she really wants (which is to be loved). Awfully presumptuous of me to try to get her to do this, don't you think? She'll either decide to do this for herself, or not.
I agree that it is presumptuous. But I also think it a forgone conclusion that she will not do this if she doesn’t have to, and if she doesn’t the marriage will not advance. This appears like a lose-lose situation and is what I was facing too. But as my W and I faced the real threat of D, I think we both came to realize that if we did not want the marriage to fail, we both had to get in touch with our feelings and our vulnerability. We had to step into that crucible and make a choice. I don’t know if MsHD can do that, but then it becomes your call as to whether you can live with her avoidance.
3) Get you two on the same team by appealing to her needs. I'm trying to show her we're on the same team. I've been playing by her rules, and it hasn't brought us together. I can SHOW her that we're on the same team by being honest with her, and by being true to myself.
Playing by her rules does not mean you are on the same team. You are on HER team. She has got to share ownership, share the rule making, share authority, etc. I am assuming that will be scary for her. So before she can share those responsibilities, she needs to feel safe. That is what I was trying to do.
I understand that you are trying to be true. She says she wants you to do this, but her meaning of “true” is for you to see HER truth, not yours. Your truth is a threat to her because it undermines her control and causes her to see things she does not want to see. That will make her hesitant to share power, which is how she feels safe. It is a nice little catch-22 she has woven for you and a thin line for you to walk.
But as my W and I faced the real threat of D, I think we both came to realize that if we did not want the marriage to fail
cobra, do you think it's a given that MRS. HD does not want the marriage to fail? If you think she wants the marriage not to fail, what is your evidence of this?
I don't see what other position you can take. If you assume she does want the marriage to fail, then this is all pointless. But I also think she would have left by now. I also agree with the reading between the lines by Blackfoot that she does not want the marriage to fail. She just doesn't want to give up control.
That also brings up another question. HD, if it came to D, do you think she would fight for full custody of your daughter, or 50/50, or nothing? Would it be too overwhelming for her to keep up her work pace, plus manage the home, plus take care of your daughter at least 50/50? It seems like she would have way too much on her plate. How do you think she would react if this were to happen? Could she manage?
Quote: ------------------------------------------------ Loving role model to stepkids? She has all but given up on caring for any of their well-being, for which she blames their mother. Despite the fact that my ex poisons the kids' minds against W, she gave up on them shortly after this list. ------------------------------------------------
When you have time, would you mind elaborating on this?
Thanks, -NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Quote: ----------------------------------------------------- That also brings up another question. HD, if it came to D, do you think she would fight for full custody of your daughter, or 50/50, or nothing? -----------------------------------------------------
Not to answer for Hairdog, but my guess is that she would go for full custody.
-NOPkins-
I will ferret out an affair at any opportunity.
-An affair is the embodiment of entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. -An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
Being a lawyer, that would be her default position, but I wonder if she really would want all the responsibility. It might mean having to cut back some on work, and she seems most devoted to that. So I was wondering just how joint custody would affect her.
My wife would absolutely hate having to split time with the kids. She could learn to adapt, but she would hate it and I think that is her biggest fear. I you can't have a spouse who regrets a failed marriage for her own sake, then I suppose having a spouse who hates losing the kids, at least part time, is the next best thing, as far as deterrents to divorce go.
cobra, do you think it's a given that MRS. HD does not want the marriage to fail? If you think she wants the marriage not to fail, what is your evidence of this?
cobra replied
Quote:
I don't see what other position you can take. If you assume she does want the marriage to fail, then this is all pointless.
Cobra, here you're doing to me the thing that irritates you when others do it to you. I was asking a literal question: do you think it's a given that Mrs. HD wants the marriage to succeed; if so please give your evidence.
You answered my question as though I had stated that I have already come to the conclusion that Mrs. HD does not want the marriage to succeed. That may or may not be the case, but in any case, please answer my question.
I'm assuming this is a partial answer:
Quote:
But I also think she would have left by now.
It seems to me that what hairdog needs to do at this point is to establish plainly and clearly to his satisfaction out loud in the open on the record for both of them to see with no misunderstanding that Mrs. HD does indeed want the marriage to succeed, that she does NOT want a D. Judging from her last email, that is not a given. I believe her desire to save the M needs to be made explicit.
He is making a simple request for a behavioral change, or at least the prospect that there is likely to be some behavioral change in the future. She has said she will not commit to that change. So what WILL she commit to, if anything? If she will not commit to anything, then what is the evidence that she wants the marriage to succeed? The fact that she hasn't left yet is clearly not very strong evidence. That can just be inertia.
She has got to stick her neck out in some miniscule way at some point.
Lil: I don't think she wants it to fail. Mostly because of DD5 - W is likely very concerned about DD5's adoption/abandonment issues, and, truth be told, she knows that I am a good father and certainly better to keep around than to have all those issues to have to deal with regard to DD5.
Nop: Early on, the kids truly seemed to embrace W. As they grew older, a combination of their mother's anti-MsHdog diatribes (which they shared with me) and my W's personal brand of "tough love" (intolerance for messes, many household rules, criticism) and later, some actions they perceived as preferential towards DD5, strained the relationship. To her credit, W tried many times to be inclusive/loving toward them, but she often felt betrayed by their habit of telling their mom everything that was going on at my house, and hearing it somehow regurgitated negatively by my ex to W over the phone, or over a phone message, or via email.
I tried to foster the relationship, to smooth things over between all involved (trying to be the peacemaker), but it's gotten more and more difficult over the years. It's not an openly-hostile relationship. It's just that some "family dinner nights" are cooler than others. Sometimes, my older son lets slip a negative opinion of W, my younger son lies to her about something and never hears the end of it (where does he get THAT from?), or DD11 parrots something she heard from her mother. It's wearing. For a parent, like me, it's just part of parenting, and it's become old hat for me to ignore the messages I perceive coming from exW, and deal with what's real. It's harder for W. Still, if she were able to take things less personally, as she did earlier in the relationship, it would be easier for everyone.
With regard to custody, who knows? If she stays in this town, I could see her willingly sharing custody. Her family connections are a couple states away, and I suppose it's possible that she would want to move there.
Currently, the division of time spent with DD5 is generally, M-F, W spends about an hour and a half in the morning, getting her ready for school and driving her there. I pick her up from school at about 4pm, and we are usually together until W comes home around 7pm. DD5's bedtime is 8. You do the math. The weekends are W's time to spend with DD5, but often, I'm part of the activities.
