HELP!!!! INFIDELITY AGAIN!!!!

[Walking]

Hi Tam

You did really well in organising dinner with friends, calling about bowling leagues and trying to set up some new arrangements with the girls. I'm so proud of you for putting in place some mechanisms that will give you some down time from thinking about your situation/marriage. Well done.

I'm sorry he didn't talk to you this morning. I think his behaviour demonstrates the turmoil he is in more so than what he is thinking about you. He probably woke up, realised you were there and thought "bugger - I don't want to have to explain why I'm sleeping here - I'll just leave and I won't have to talk about it" - because that's what men do, particularly men who are in crisis. They avoid dealing with their feelings and they avoid having to justify their actions. You have already identified that about your relaitonship - you talk everything to death, he grabs a beer, focusses on peeling the label and replies without conviction. He just didn't want to go there today.

And you know what? That's OK. He can stop talking if he likes. It's kind of bad manners. It doesn't reflect very well on his state of mind, but it's his choice and decision to behave in that way and it reflects on him - not on you.

I'm really scared about my work. I just CANNOT focus - or I guess I refuse to.

Tam - you need to give yourself a break. You are beating yourself up needlessly about work/sleep/backsliding/dbing. There is no way that you can be working at optimal capacity when you have this stuff going on in your life. Can you just accept that for the time being? I know you still want to be perfect. I know that it makes you feel even more stressed that things are falling through the cracks - but just for today, no how about just for this week - give yourself a break. Do what you can - what you absolutely have to, and let the rest go. What's the worst thing that can happen if you give yourself a break? You make a few $$ less? You pay some penalty? Write it off. When you look back on this part of your life it's not going to be the calls you forgot to make that you reflect on. Please be kind to yourself over this - yes?

I need to be able to concentrate. I will ask the doctor about this when I meet with him again to see if there is something I can take to help with this.

Wow - if he has something that works for that - patent it!!! There is no magic pill my friend. There is nothing that is going to make this go away, except your diligent and concerted effort to put one foot in front of the other each and every day. You can do that, because you are strong and brave. You can do it, because it's part of the lesson you are learning.

Yes, again, sleep would be a good thing.

One of the things that really worked for me with sleep was to invest in some guided meditation and self hypnosis cd's. I kept them on my i-pod and I slept with my i-pod next to the bed, so if I woke up during the night, I would put one on and gently ease myself back to sleep.

I'm pleased you are going back to the gym too. Hard exercise certainly is a great aid to sleep. I often did 2 x cardio classes a day to literally wear myself to sleep. It worked and it helped me look great too. Exercise is also important for keeping the feel-good seretonin chemicals going in your brain - do as much as you can. Exercise until you drop.

In relation to the time frames he's putting on the business - 3 months - 3 weeks - hooey! He doesn't know if he's Arthur or Martha right now and he is grasping at straws, trying to link things together that seem to make sense - effectively putting in place ways to 'run-away' from everything that is uncomfortable for him in his life. When it comes to questions of how to deal with the business - you need to be very focussed on what you really want and need - forget what he's saying - he's not the boss of the decisions as they relate to your professional and financial future and he can't call the shots. Don't even go there in conversation with him.

Keep looking after yourself Tam. Keep writing here, maintain your hope. You are getting better every day.

[2940831]

As usual, thanks so much, Virginia. You are such an angel. It's so nice to have such caring people looking in from the outside who can give me some perspective on all of this crap...

I agree with what you and Lin have said about why he's not talking to me. I know he's in turmoil - even if he says he's not. He says he's decided he wants to be with her instead of me and that he doesn't want to be married to me, but the other day during my meltdown he said I could keep some hope in my heart, the next day saying that he hadn't given up on us completely yet. I just have to hope that he is confused rather than that he's made up his mind for good. At least if there is confusion and doubt I am still in the running, right?

I realize that the more I contain myself and be confident and fun yet aloof around him that he will eventually feel safer around me and not be worried about being sideswiped by my psycho questioning side all the time. That I realize will take time, and I just have to keep practicing it. I can only hope, though, that when we do get through all of this that we will be able to find a way to effectively communicate with each other. I hope that you all will help me with that when the time comes...

Regarding my work, I already HAVE been letting it go and just doing the bare minimum - since November! As you pointed out, I don't fail at things; I'm not a quitter. I'm a perfectionist and people count on me... That's the problem; it's not that it's only been a week or so that this has been happening; it's been months now... I have told H several times that I'm having such a hard time focusing on my work, and he has told me that that is all he CAN focus on. Well, good for him. I'm so glad that he can keep working away and do such a great job while my whole world is falling apart...

Referring to the doctor, he did tell me that one of the meds he gave me would help with my concentration - I guess it will calm my nerves some? I just haven't really felt that too much yet, so that is what I want to ask him about. The Xanax does wonders to numb me and put me in la-la land for a short time, but then it wears off, which I know is a good thing. I just feel like I need something to be able to keep my mood a little bit more even-keeled throughout the day.

Thanks for the ideas about sleep, Virginia. I think part of my problem may be that I've been reading my DB and other books at night before I go to sleep. Thus, I'm going to sleep with negative/challenging/etc. thoughts on my mind. When he was gone the first time, I usually watched some TV at night to get my mind OFF things, and I was sleeping much better. I may try still reading some at night but then either reading something lighter before going to sleep or watching a little TV. I'll see if that helps.

The mornings have been the worst so far for some reason. I usually wake up in a state of panic and have to take my Xanax to even start the day... I usually cry in the shower every morning - it's all I can do to just get ready to face the day.

Yes, I know exercising again will help. I also want to go out and buy some new clothes soon, too. I've been putting that off and really want to do it, especially now that I've lost some more weight! Ha! There IS some good that comes out of stress, right? NEW, SMALLER CLOTHES!!! LOL

I still don't know about the business. I'm really torn on that one. The other day he asked me about the old shredder we replaced in my office as far as what I wanted to do with the old one. He said something about whether I thought our assistant would use it. Well, we don't yet have a new assistant but were talking before and on the trip about getting one. I haven't brought it up since, as it doesn't really make sense to me to even go there right now. But HE's the one who brought it up. I just played stupid and asked if the assistant would be at the job site or at our office, and he said probably our office, so I said fine, to go ahead and put it in our office for the assistant and let it go.

He also told me the other day that it would be nice when I wasn't having to take so many calls from potential residents anymore after we get our project full. But then he said that he would have new purchases lined up for me to handle by then... I laughed and told him that I never get any rest, do I?

So when he says these things, it makes me feel torn. On the one hand, I AM glad that he is talking about the future of the business and doing it TOGETHER. On the other hand, I'm worried that he thinks that I'm going to be willing to end our R and continue on the business with him, and as I've mentioned, I don't think that is what I want. On the third hand :), I am hopeful that we will continue the business and that we'll continue it as husband and wife.

So, are you absolutely sure that it's not appropriate for me to tell him my thoughts about my potentially NOT wanting to continue the business if we don't stay together? Am I leading him on by not doing so? And am I even wrong to feel that I potentially don't feel like I want to continue the business without him? I just don't know...

I LOVE what we do in business together - we truly are a great team. And we're so very close to getting to the point where we wanted to be - that's why this is so hard. At the same time, a lot of the reason I did all of this business was for OUR dreams and goals, not for him to shatter those and share our good work with someone else. But he's angry at me for feeling that way. Do you think HE would enjoy working in the business while watching ME share that success with another man? I don't know; maybe he wouldn't care...

Anyway, I'm off now to read a gossip magazine before bed to see if that helps tonight... Thank you all again for supporting me and seeing me through this. I would honestly lose my mind without you...

[PennyMB]

Hi Tam,

Hey sorry I haven't replied when you needed someone. Actually this morning my H called it was my birthday and invited me to breakfast 60 miles away but I went. He was very complimentary about me loosing weight and having my hair done different that it made me look younger. I don't know if he was just being nice or met it. But I took it as compliment. What I'm getting to is that it is very hard to think that they have someone else to go talk to and see. But today for the first time since November for me that I had a calm feeling and just visited with him and joked a little . I didn't ask him about her except he had a new shirt that was little different than he used to wear and he avoided answering it so I know she gave it to him. When he left (he was leaving on a business trip) he gave me a kiss and then said hey come here give me another? Go Figure!!!!! He ask if I wanted to go buy something for my birthday because he hadn't gotten any thing but I said I would like to go get some clothes that fit ( i have lost quite a few lbs since Nov)of course that saved him from shopping but after he left I went shopping by myself and believe it or not I had a great time. I'm telling you this because, I like you, have just beat my self up and finally realized the only one I can control and change is ME...so I have tried really hard to work on me. I also had lost some of the independency that I had with my friends and they are good about inviting me but I had declined to wait and see what he was going to do and if he would want me to go. Now I'm trying very hard if I want to go ,I go do things a little at a time. We are also in a business to gether where I'm basically in charge of the whole deal while he is helping with a family business with his brothers because of a family accident that has also been hard on us that is where she stepped into our picture. The old support from some else then family and she knows are family. SO I also let some of our business and personal books go but had to keep up the part with the animals because they are counting on me. My full time job also has suffered alittle but I can see where I am getting ahold of my self. I know if I can do it, you can because you are a stong person. You just have to take a deep breathe and go on. Your friends will be there for you. I went on Wellbrutin for a while to help with the anxiety of it all and it did help.

My H does the same thing talking about the future of the business and so I know how hard it is to comprehend if they are meaning it or not. But you have to look out for you too and just think will this better us and me too. I would keep my thoughts to myself and it doesn't hurt to have a plan for yourself just in case. I have thought about this a lot.

You are not alone about crying in the shower. I do it too.

Try not to worry to much about him not talking to you. I think they don't want the to get into a debate or argument or they feel a little guilty about what is going on. You can't change him but just start being more of yourself and he will notice the change and who knows he might just start coming and saying something. Every little thing that you can change in front of him or on the phone he will start to notice just like my H did today. But you are making the change for YOU and not just for him. It is to make you feel better about yourself. My thoughts for me today, are did my H mean what he said or not. I guess I mean did we make progress or was he just being nice since it was my birthday. I also had the bad thoughts that did he call her as soon as he left me. Those are the thoughts that like you I fight. Remember when I said "GOd you got to hand this thought. I don't want to" It at least made me think someone else had and I could think POSITIVE thoughts. You have had those same thoughts when he called you honey. We have to hold on to that thought but not get to excited. small steps.
I am lucky this week because my youngest son is home for a few days from college. That is really nice and fun for me.

It is a roller coaster ride. You are strong and you are going to make it no matter what. The people here are so supportive.
Get some rest and Exercise takes away the tension even if it is just a walk around the job site when you get to feeling up tight. Call a friend and go to lunch while he still working.
BE independent. It is hard to find the real you and get it back I know I'm trying to find it. It is amazing you can let your self fall down that deep black whole and not realize it.
You hang in there. We are all here for you. Well it is 1:30 in the morning I couldn't sleep so I better get some sleep myself. Good Luck and REmember Patience and I CAN MAKE IT.

[2940831]

Hi, Penny --

First of all, HAPPY BIRTHDAY!!!! I'm so glad to hear that you had such a nice, rewarding, fulfilling day of so many accomplishments.

I think it's very positive that your H invited you to breakfirst, first of all. Secondly, the compliments on your figure and hair - and asking for a second kiss when you left?!?! Penny, those are all very positive things - great baby steps for him. You obviously made an impact both with your wonderful appearance and your bright, sunny, calm, care-free attitude. Good for you! Be happy about these baby steps, but try not to get overly excited about them so that you're not getting your expectations up too high. That is something I have to work on as well. I let every good thing and every bad thing that happens affect me to the extreme - the never-ending emotional roller coaster.

I think your H definitely meant those things he said to you as compliments. Think about it... Did he HAVE to say those things to you? Only if you had asked him "hey, don't you think I look great" would he have been forced to address those things. But since he was the one who complimented you on his own AND asked for the extra kiss - definitely positive things, Penny. Good job on your hard work.

Glad to hear that you went shopping afterwards and had a good time. I'm looking forward to that as well.

Sounds like our situations are a bit similar with the business situation. It's really hard. Sometimes I'm glad we work together because I know I'll at least have some contact with him, but other times I hate it - I think it would be easier if I couldn't see him, if that makes sense.

I know what you mean about wondering if he's calling her, seeing her, with her, etc. It's enough to drive you crazy, isn't it? Last night when he left the office, I knew he was probably going over there, and it just tears me up. But, at least I haven't been snooping by driving by her house and/or checking his credit cards anymore. That helps, but it still hurts so much to know that he is MY H and is spending time with another woman - and that I'm just sitting here waiting while he does it! It's really twisted...

Glad your son is home for a few days this week. Use that as an opportunity to do some fun things and keep busy and just let go of this for a while - give yourself permission.

YOU CAN DO THIS, TOO!!! Congratulations on a wonderful day yesterday, Penny.

[imLIN]

Okay....you sound much better...

About Tuesday night...you are doing that for you...no need to mention it to H..

As for parents...LEAVE IT ALONE...he has it in his day planner...he is a big boy...it is HIS BUSINESS...

I am just shaking my head that you can't see that even "accepting" an invitation to go see parents is a HUGE MISTAKE...I can only hope that you will make the right decision...I can't make them for you...you are an adult...but I can see the danger signs all over on that one...it is too soon...and look at what happened the last time...and to "make believe" that you two are a couple at his parents is going to be emotionally straining on both of you....Tam...really really....please DON'T GO...no matter what....I don't want to see you lose what you have earned....or worse, to lose him for good...

You asked...if he wants to be with her why doesn't he leave you for good if he wants to be with her???...because HE HASN'T DECIDED WHAT HE WANTS....this means you still have hope...you still have a chance...of course if you go to the parents (if he even asks you to still go)that could all change...for the worse...I have thought about it a lot and I can't see any good coming from that....but I see a lot of advancement and being able to show him how strong you can be if you decline to go...if you just let it go and stay home to work....

BTW...I don't always get to fall asleep in my H's arms...I asked him for some quality time last night...he replied "What does that mean?"....well he didn't get to bed until 1 am....I go to work at 5 am...so there was no time with him...it isn't rosey all the time....but it is getting better...and I will accept that...

Take care...Lin

[2940831]

Just wanted to check in and say hello. I got some better sleep last night. I set my alarm early to get up to go to the gym but felt so tired still when it went off that I just turned it off and gave myself permission to sleep in. I didn't wake up until 9:30! It was nice.

Didn't have to take a Xanax this morning! Yeah! Felt weak and thought I might should take one but wasn't weepy like usual, so I just let it go.

I got dressed up nice today and came in to the office. H's car wasn't here... But he's here now.

Of course he didn't even come in to say hello to me... So, I decided before he left without saying anything again that I at least needed him to see that I was dressed up and looked well-rested, right? So I got some bills out that I needed to give him and just went down to his office and said hi and gave them to him. He looks really tired today. Maybe he just woke up??? He didn't sleep here last night, so I'm sure he was with her...

Anyway, he made a joke about the spelling of our last name on one of the pieces of paper, and we laughed together. Then I asked him just a couple of business questions and then promptly went back to my office! Now that I've at least seen him today, I'm going to work hard on just staying up in my office and not approaching him any more today. We'll see if he does anything... I know it's going to take time of giving him space before I make any headway and that I can't get disappointed every time he just leaves... PATIENCE!!!

I'll be starting a women's bowling league in May, so I'm looking forward to that. I also heard back from my good friend that I called yesterday about getting a group of girls together weekly for girls' night. She thought it was a good idea, so we're going to organize that over the next couple of weeks, so that will be good.

I'm still hurting a lot today - the pain of knowing your H is sleeping with someone else day after day and that you just have to wait and be strong when you don't feel like it and put on a happy face when you don't feel like it - it's just so hard... Like I keep saying, I just want my life back - but a better, more stable and healthy life. I want PEACE in my heart again. I'm so very tired of hurting and feeling this brick on my chest day after day after day. And the controlling part of me that doesn't have any idea when or how this is all going to end is just killing me! PATIENCE.... PATIENCE....

I called Michele's office this morning to see if they have any way of knowing what therapists in my area have been trained on Michele's techniques. They said they no longer give out referrals, that that didn't always work out in the past. I got the name of someone through another therapist here locally who thinks she might have been trained in Michele's methods. I have a call in to her. Will let you know.

Today I'm going to work on doing some focused work for at least several hours. I am really getting buried in work and absolutely have to get caught up on some things. I'm going to ignore my phone for a good part of the day and just let it go to voicemail and return calls later.

Let me know what I should do about tomorrow night with the girls. Do I tell him about it?

Also, I have to pass right by his office if I leave the office. Do I just walk by him without saying anything if I leave and he's here? Or do I just politely say "see you later" or something like that? I want to be pleasant and not treat him like he's treating me in that regard, but I also know that I need to not be quite as friendly as I have been. What is a good compromise?

Oh, I've been meaning to tell you another thing that Jody said on our call. We got to talking about the guilt that H must feel. I told her that H has said that he doesn't feel guilty and that that makes him feel bad that he DOESN'T feel guilty. Of course that tore my heart apart... Jody said, "Well, I guess that's not the man you married then, is it?" She's right. There just is no way that he could not feel guilty for being in this situation. I can see it in his eyes - or I should say his lack of eyes, as he can hardly ever made eye contact with me if we're talking about the R. Business - great. R - no.

Well, I'm going to try to overload my aching heart with work now. H is still here, so I'm going to enjoy just being in his distant presence and stay isolated in my office and see how the day progresses from here...

God give me strength...

[2940831]

Hey, Lin --

Looks like our posts just crossed. Thanks for checking in with me. First and foremost, please just be thankful that you are able to sleep in the same bed with your H... Remember back to when you were sleeping alone every night? I'd give anything right now for H to want to spend even four hours in the same bed with me... Four hours will eventually lead to more. You have come so very far; I am so proud of you and admire you so much. The "quality time" will come. How long has your H been back home now? Hang in there. You have come so very far.

Regarding tomorrow night, isn't it important, though, for H to see that I'm not just sitting around belly-aching for him? I know I'm going out with my friends to give myself a boost, but I also know that he told me the OW is more outgoing than me, and I know he misses that about me, as I was more outgoing in the beginning of our R. I want him to see that I'm working on finding the old me again... Does that make sense?

Regarding the parents, I'm sure you're right. I guess I just want to see if he even WANTS me to go. It's that reassurance thing. If he at least wants me to go, even if I don't go, that helps give me strength. Maybe that's what I'm holding out for. I know I need to find the strength within myself. I haven't done anything yet and don't plan on doing anything today, so bear with me, okay? I hear what you're saying, and I'm listening attentively to your advice. I know that it's probably the wrong thing to do, but I hope you can see how my heart is torn. I'm not seeing H hardly at all right now, and to have the opportunity to spend a few days with him and his parents??? It's so hard. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do in terms of where we are at right now with everything. I just hope you can see how I'm struggling with this...

Keep giving me strength, you guys. I want to become a better person; I really do. I WANT TO WIN BACK MY H - and myself...

[2940831]

P.S. - H just left again. No goodbye, no nothing... This is absolutely KILLING ME!!!!!

[2940831]

You asked...if he wants to be with her why doesn't he leave you for good if he wants to be with her???...because HE HASN'T DECIDED WHAT HE WANTS....this means you still have hope...you still have a chance...

Lin, but he said he DOES know what he wants, that he doesn't want to be married to me anymore, that we're just going to stick it out for the next 3 months to get this project done. Yes, he agreed to just "be friends" for now and see if there is a spark that comes up in the future, and during my meltdown he said I could still hold out hope... I guess this just all means that he either doesn't know what he wants or he just doesn't want to hurt me...

[Heartbroken]

I am telling you now - you NEED TO LET HIM GO!!! Please go read my sitch (Now surviving separation) I did what you are doing - even with having read DB twice!!! I just pushed him out the door - it was not until I truly let him go that he even liked looking at me. We have made more progress in the last three weeks than the last 8 mos. Please Please Please get a grip - you will push him away for good if you don't. I almost did and it took me so long to finally get it!!! Let him go!!! He needs to see what the real life will be with OW before he can come back to the new you.... try, I know your pain - I had wished for cancer rather than losing him how pathetic was that???? I am so much stronger now and I will be fine with or without him. Please see my postings!!