First I want to tell you that I really empathize with your sitch. It is tough place to be and it seems the only way out is to wage all out war. But I learned that this is the impression that my wife wanted me and others to have. Her response to me when we got into a fight was always “Yeah, what are you going to do about it? Go ahead, do something!” So I did. She didn’t like it, she went into battle mode (which ended up being no big deal because she was already in battle mode). But it made her realize there are things I can do, and that I have the power and the legal right to do those things, and there is nothing she can do about it except leave. And she didn’t want to leave. She just thought she did. You’ve got to determine how much of your wife is bark and how much is bite.
How do you suggest I "directly address" these issues? Just a statement, like "I know you have problems with the way I have done x, y, and z. I see my part as a, b, and c." Resolved?
Basically, yes. That is how I did it. But back up a second. What is the basis for her saying you DIDN’T do something? What right is it of her to judge you in the first place? Even if you agreed to do certain chores, you have the right to not do them if you feel like it. She may not like it, but she has no right to tell you what you should do, how you should do it, when you should do it, or the quality of the work. You do it as you want and that is the end of it. If she doesn’t like it, then she can do it. The point is to break out of her control. The chore itself is NOT the issue. She needs an excuse to control you and is using the chore as an excuse. Don’t give it to her. Get the stuff done, but on your own terms. In fact, do it opposite to how she wants it done, but still get an acceptable result. Then YOU determine the standard to judge the work that is done, not her.
Help me understand. I guess I am having trouble figuring out how W is going to see anything as "resolved and settled."
No, and she never will. So don’t argue the point. Do what you think should be done to your reasonable standards and leave it at that. She will say she doesn’t like the way you did this or that. But you do it to your standards, then tell her you like it, that it is to your standards, and she is just arguing over preference. Tell her that. I don’t think “Oh” is good enough. I think you need to show a little more assertiveness than that.
She thinks like a bully. Bullies do not care one iota what the other person thinks or feels. You need to draw a distinction between her opinion and yours, and show her that what you feel is every bit as valid as what she feels (do not discount her feelings – that would be escalation). Don’t jump into the pit to argue over the chores, but do be more than willing to jump in and defend your right to do those chores as you see fit. I have even told my wife that she needs to respect me and my decisions in those areas, stop trying to micromanage me and BACK OFF. Those very words. Make HER think twice about challenging your decisions.
There is no way that I can, after that point, lead a "perfect" life. I will drop a ball occasionally. I may forget a meeting. I may blow off cleaning the house one Sunday because I was consumed with doing yard work instead. I may slip up and omit telling her something because I decide that I'd rather take a chance with her not finding out about it, than listening to her complain about something. And then, she will cite my current behavior, dredge up my similar behavior from the past, and we are (in her mind) back at square one.
So what if you slip up? That is your right. In fact, if you purposely choose to do a chore in the wrong way, that is your right. If you choose to skip mowing the yard one weekend because you have something else more important to do (like take a nap) that is YOUR decision, and your decisions are not open to question.
Do you see that your initial presumptions leave you open to criticism before you even do anything? You presume she has the right to treat you this way. So she does! Whose fault is that? Change your presumptions, make those new boundaries very clear to her, and then act as if the matter is closed. If she challenges the work, ignore her. If she challenges you right to make those decisions, be ready to defend yourself, vigorously (IMO).
I've been there before. I've thought to myself, "you know, Hairdog, you haven't farked up recently. You've done all your duties, done them well, haven't omitted or deceived. Haven't misspent. She seems happy." And then, if I initiate, there's always some other reason (back to the 'tired and stressed' or countless others).
Yep, and there always will be. The issue is not the chores. It is her fear.
So yeah, I'm willing to consider your plan, Cobra. I think, though, that it's more because I see my DD5 as being the one who suffers most if W and I split up, than because I have any expectation of anything resembling "success" with it.
This is not going to be easy for you HD. I am by nature more of a fighter than you. You will need something to shift you into battle mode. I think your daughter is the one thing that can do that. If you don’t go into battle mode now, you might end up having to do it anyway, at a later time. You need some controlled anger to take this on.
She has said fairly clearly what she is NOT willing to do, or not willing to agree to. What, if anything, is she willing to do/try/agree?
Do you really expect her to agree to anything? She won’t do so voluntarily. Part of the new marriage relationship will have to be built on a new level of trust. She needs to understand and feel what it means for someone to do something for her because they want to, not because she holds control over that person. She needs to understand that you have the power to decide whether you want to do your part, but that you will only do it if she in turn reciprocates. Tit-for-tat in order to build a pattern of mutual giving and slowly build comfort and trust. This is uncomfortable for her. She will have to deal with it. You need to hold her feet to the fire, give some support and encouragement, but let her experience how it feels on her own. Don’t rescue.
Some of you think I need to drop the sex issue.
I would drop expectations of sex within your mind, not hers. Your prospect of having sex anytime soon is zero to none IMO. Don’t frustrate yourself with false hope. But do keep the issue in front of your wife. Let this be another aspect of the overall relationship you want to have with her. Don’t hide it, keep it in the open. Just don’t expect anything right now.
I don't want to do that. I am at a place right now where I am very vulnerable to infidelity. And not because there are any immediate prospects on the scene. I'm just about to explode. Emotionally. Physically. I need to know how far she's willing to push this "unwillingness". Because, my compassion for her childhood, for her fears, for her sexual rejection, is not without limits. I think the crucible is here.
This is the tough part for you. Hold onto yourself the best you can. It is the part about Schnarch that I have problems with. You are in pain. Your wife is in pain. If you two can have that heart to heart and realize you both want the same thing, all she would have to do is tell you she understands you, she is working on it, and let you see signs of progress. You could do the same, in whatever LL she likes. That puts you two on the same team. That would ease a lot of your pain.
What makes this so hard is that she will not see her part of this. That is why I think appealing to her core hurts, going right past her defenses as if they were not there, will appeal to her. It will take some time for her to even know what you are talking about, but I think she will listen. IMO, this is about pulling back all the various deceptions and denials you both have. She won’t do it until she sees you do it. You don’t have her loss issues, so you should be better able to go first. The good thing is that she has shown signs of appreciation when you have done this before. So don’t be so afraid.
