Those 5 things reduce the pleasure and/or increase the discomfort for most all women. Maybe Shmagic wants to chime in here a little. I remember her saying intercourse on a physical level was a problem for her
If you want first hand information from a female’s POV have a private or public exchange with someone menopausal, that has had a hysterectomy, had breast cancer, took anti-cancer drugs for 5 years, and can’t take anything that contains hormones, including bio-identical hormones.
Lou, if this true, why does she only have sex with you after you have put your foot down and withdrawn from the M. Her pattern is very consistent and I can’t see any correlation to physical symptoms. The only thing I can see is reduced frequency with some minimal amount of time between acts.
1.The connection is reduced/lost when physical problems are introduced into the R.
This is simply not true. Physical problems do not mean emotional connection has to fall off. Sex does not drive EC, it is the other way around. You know that. This is a deflection. I would expect this response from BB, but why is it coming from you?
2. I have moved in a direction to just do it, got thicker skinned, ignoring some of BB verbal resistance I would have really been concerned with in the past. I am less hesitant about pushing through her resistance.
Good.
3. I am doing the hand holding even if BB pulls back some because I want to, instead because I want to get her in a better mood
Don’t worry about her mood. That is hers to overcome. Don’t let your guilt give her a way out.
Maybe I over emphasized the disconnect/disappointment too much. I wanted to say to the readers that I was disappointed the sex wasn’t better but also say or imply I wasn’t going to continue having disconnected sex like I used to put up with at times.
I understand your motives and I agree with you. You should not have to put up with robotic sex. But consider who you are working with and all her issues. The disconnect, the talking during sex, is not about you, it is not a way to withdraw from you, or a way to hurt you, it is not her trying to be rude or selfish, it is about her being scared to face intimacy and her way of protecting herself. If you can see any validity in that statement (and I think you really need to step back and see why I say that) then your next question should be why does she feel that way and what role did you play in allowing that state of mind to come about?
I know there is a lot of stuff that comes from FOO, but earlier in your marriage you say BB was enthusiastic about sex. That does not sound like someone who has FOO related sexual issues. Sometime during your marriage she developed these defenses. They could be related to FOO issues (and probably are) but they may have been triggered by a slow, long disconnect between you two over the years. Johnson, in her book about adult attachment, says trauma can develop in this way too.
Could it be the BB has always been an insecure person and over the years she has had to steel herself over one crisis after another (at least to her they might have been crisis, to you or me they were nothing). This would only make her withdraw and self protect more. Now she is so scared she can’t even come out of her shell for something that should give her the greatest comfort of all, having sex with you.
Your description of her anxiety over winter electrical supply, food storage, the security of her future retirement, the compulsive shopping (sort of like a squirrel storing of a hoard of nuts for the winter), all seem like anxiety driven behavior to me.
You are an emotionally detached person Lou. You know this. It is not bad, it is just who you are. But BB needs more that just your stability and your reliability. Remember Dieda says the man’s objective is his purpose, but concerning the relationship, he must share his success with his woman to give her security. Do you think BB would say you do this? Why don’t you ask her?
I wanted to show I can do something different by being willing to end a session early and let BB know being disconnected was something I didn’t like.
I understand your intent. Your method, in light of BB’s anxiety, is not giving results.
I was giving an example to other people what it takes to forge through one’s own fears and what might be in store for them if and when they make moves to overcome their own and their partner’s resistance.
Yes, it is scary. Would it help you feel less anxious if BB understood what you feel and tried to help you feel more supported? This is a serious question………. Think about it…… of course we would all want that right? BB wants that too.
YOU go first and give it to her. This means you have to talk to her, a very open, honest heart to heart talk. It is hard to do this, and even harder for her. But this is what she wants more than anything else. She has just withdrawn so far into her shell, she can’t find her own way out.
She might also be filled with resentment that you have not tried to pull out before now. So when you try, she might push back. Expect this. She does not trust why you are doing this now. What changed in Lou to suddenly start caring about her feelings? Is this just the latest ploy her learn at one of those meetings to get more sex? Do you see where I am coming from on this? That is why trust is so important, as Mrs NOP always stresses.
But THIS is the core of leadership. THIS is where you truly take the role of the man. THIS is where you show her that you are fighting for her, that you care for her, and she can restore her faith in you. There is nothing she can do to help you in this. This task is all on your shoulders and yours to bear alone. Be prepared first.
Several times this difference in sex drive feels like Mother Nature played tricks on both of us. Just letting people know, as have others, people encounter problems in life, the older one is, the more sexual problems there are in the general population. Some of the problems might be a part of your R someday. Hopefully not. Just a heads-up.
I will do some more re-direction or something to let BB know those outside topics distract from the moment.
Excellent!
I have to work the R with BB, one step at a time.
I don’t think this is necessary, the one step at a time part. Don’t limit your pace by what you THINK she can endure. She might surprise you, once she can reconnect. So be sure a slow pace is not to protect yourself. Do the 180, step up the pace. Once you get some momentum, do not let it go. Be prepared first.
Thanks all for your input.
Sometimes you frustrate the hell out of me Lou, but I am still behind you!!!
Reply to Lil I'm NOT saying you're justified in hurting her back, but you certainly are justified in ending the act and saying something (nicely) like "Let's try this again when you're more into it. That would have been better than what I did. At least what I did, wasn't to gloss over the situation like I sometimes do.
I am looking forward to a do-over and won't wait several weeks.
And then either MB right there or go in the other room and do it. I think MB right there would be looked upon as an insult and doing it in the other room sort of chicken.. I should have stopped and redirected.
I think everyone should use Astroglide. The stuff is miraculous. I like it too. BB has some reservations about it but has not come up with anything different. I have some thoughts about taking her to an Adult-store and looking around.
1. ..I do not take HRT and have no intention of doing so. I haven't noticed any changes in my desire level or physical "abilities." Smoking! WTG! ^5. Lucky doll!
Some women are lucky and I am glad you are one of them. I read stories post menopausal females (PMF) posted, saying the felt liberated and extra sexual=110% sexy. On the other end of the scale I read about other women think/feel like life is over for them=0% sexy. If you are in the top percentage, I would say BB is in the lower 25%.. Her being picky, and me catering to her doesn’t help. I see what I have to continue doing.
2. I Don’t have UTI’s so can’t address this. Before; Burns like heck when you pee. Pee every 3 miles till you arrive at the clinic to see the Dr, sit in the clinic’s waiting room, get checked out, drive to the drug store for meds, then relief was at hand.
Now; I got a pee kit from the clinic and some Uristat http://www.uristat.com/shorthed.htm Now it’s burn to take a pee sample, take the uristat=burning stops, drive to the clinic, wait your turn get the exam/give them the sample, fill a Rx, go home.
In the before case, it was emotionally difficult to see BB go through the whole burning phase. For a while, most of the time we had sex, the memory of what happened last time she had a UTI took most of the pleasure out of having sex and the emotional connection that should normally have been there turned in to more anxiety every time we had sex. Some anxiety is there for BB even though she has not had a UTI in over a year.
3. Took tamoxifen for 5 years which depletes natural hormones Some women tolerate it well, some don’t and some couples call it the Divorce drug. When BB was on it for 5 years, she tolerated it well, a little vaginal drying, but not much. She started taking it 10 years ago and quit taking it 5 years ago. So what is the problem you/I ask myself? Supposedly it has long term effects and damages some tissue and makes a person age faster.
I can’t prove it is a problem for BB and I can’t say it isn’t a cause of some of her problems. I read some/most women get past this problem but “some women” doesn’t mean BB will fit their pattern.
4. This is absolute crap. It is HER opinion and HER experience, but crap WRT the general population-- and that's MY opinion based on me and my peer girlfriends. It would be nice if BB had friends like yours. Hers are in the other camp, that talk what a problem it is to be older. You want some female company???? BB would love your cats and dog. Just kidding.
5. 5. Other physical and mental problems Self-absorption, tunnel vision, emotional stinginess...? Some reality and lots to do with her pickiness. Looks like I have more work to do on myself and cut back on some pampering I do.
Ill health on the part of one partner definitely changes the intimate zone of the marriage. My hat is off to you for all of the things you did for your late H.
The more I look back on that, the more I wish we could have overcome both our tendencies to pull away because his stuff was getting more and more scary/exhausting. I can imagine it would have been a big help to have something similar to this forum.
Lil, my reply was mostly information from what I have read and experienced, and not intended to be excuses.
I am still interested in BB seeing the world of sex and emotional connection in a bettwer light, for her and myself.
Mojo How 'bout saying "Yeah, baby, I'm soooo enlarged it's a f*cking emergency. I'm going to park my car and I don't care if there's a legal space. Gonna ram right through those concrete barriers so buckle up, BB." Well, that is how a good top acts and feels. Wish I would have thought about something like that the other night. Jenny, when I read that I almost cracked up. Very good come-back. No excuse, but when BB’s top barely gets off the ground, if I get going too high, I lose her.
Onetime I did the acting fake (real for me) noises, moans, OOOOOOO’s pre orgasmatic sounds some female porn stars do. I was about to cum and was tired of the “mister reserved” delivery I sometimes do (fairly vocal most of the time) that one time. I got loud because I wanted to. I was hoping BB would be thrilled. I don’t know if she was. I do know it didn’t scare her off like I was concerned.
I got the typical “I hope the neighbors didn’t hear that” from BB and my response was “I hope they did.”
Cobra, I have more work to do today so have to get back to it. thanks for the reply. My reply tomorrow.
