They just want the (other person's) feelings to go away.
While it may seem that this is the case with conflict/intimacy avoiders in many ways this is just a result of a fear of their own emotions . Even more than anothers emotions their own strong feelings are trying to be negated, they are afraid of their own feelings. I used to be like this avoiding conflict because I did not know how to deal with the anger that would arise inside of myself.
I think this is a good point... they want the other person's feeling to go away because the OP's feelings are stirring up their own feelings. It's their own painful feelings they want to go away.
I used to be like this avoiding conflict because I did not know how to deal with the anger that would arise inside of myself.
There's also another option. Cobra, you'll like this one.
FOO.
I grew up in an alcoholic home. Strong emotions meant that an explosion was just around the corner. When I left home, one of my personal goals was to have a peaceful home. I even get uncomfortable at department stores when a customer starts getting loud and obnoxious to the poor minimum wage cashier.
People start expressing strong emotions, I immediately move into peacemaker mode.
When I'm angry I tear up. It's embarrassing so I avoid doing it. In an intimate R I'm not so embarrassed by the tears so it's not so stressful to have conflict and feel angry.
I've noticed a lot of the men on the BB are conflict avoiders. Is this because they too would tear up as kids when they got angry? It's even worse for a guy.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
I grew up in an emotionally volatile home. Both my parents liked verbal conflict; my father was a lawyer and a logical arguer; my mother would fight him on an emotional level. I was both intrigued by the drama and frightened of it. My brother escaped but I remained part of the triangle, where I was often the "judge" of their interactions.
Like Mrs. Nop, I remember thinking to myself when I was young that I really wanted a peaceful home. I married a quiet conflict-avoider. I felt in control. However, I missed the verbal sparring of my childhood, and found myself provoking my H. He never reacted in the way that either of my parents had, and it was confusing. So I would up the ante. This pushed my H even further away, and he would become jerky and sarcastic in return.
A huge 180 for me in my marriage has been to drop the drama. We are civil and kind and polite to each other now, and it is so different. It's a wonderful positive change, and I am still getting used to it. But I still miss some of the verbal stimulation from the past...maybe that's why I hang out here!
Is this because they too would tear up as kids when they got angry?
For myself it was the fact that I would loose control and want to destroy things and become violent. That's how I learned that men express anger. I never saw my parents fight I saw them loving most of the time the only negative emotions I would see would be my father loosing control of his anger at inanimate objects but knowing his history other men were often included.
I had very little idea of how heathy conflict works in a relationship, the idea that anger equals a loss of control and the expression of masculine anger is the use of physical power. Conflict is very stressfull becasue I am trying to control an anger that I feel will become destructive. What on the surface may look like passive behavior is in many ways a fear of my own power.
I think this is a good point... they want the other person's feeling to go away because the OP's feelings are stirring up their own feelings. It's their own painful feelings they want to go away.
I grew up in an alcoholic home. Strong emotions meant that an explosion was just around the corner. When I left home, one of my personal goals was to have a peaceful home. I even get uncomfortable at department stores when a customer starts getting loud and obnoxious to the poor minimum wage cashier.
People start expressing strong emotions, I immediately move into peacemaker mode.
MrsNOP,
Why do you move into peacemaker mode? TO protect yourself? I thought you mentioned younger siblings so were you protecting them too?
I ask because my xH was "afraid" of strong emotions and would move into peacemaker mode too but by being the "funny guy". In his family there was no strong emotions EVER shown so it seemed that he was just afraid of the unknown.
I think you also alluding to wondering about this issue in my childhood by asking if my mom was ill growing up.
For me, I am comfortable with strong emotions. My mom and I would argue strongly and things were always okay between us - well in the end they were (the guys can laugh at me but we might be yelling loudly and arguing but we always ended with understanding each other, sometimes crying, hugging and saying I love you). HOWEVER her relationship with her parents had some issues and definitely I believe she felt "dominated and unaccepted" by her father (which she consciousy worked to NOT do this with her children - and she was very successful) And in turn I would watch her be extrasensitive to things she did not need to be whether it was from my Grandfather, Dad, me or anyone else. This is where I would JUMP in and try to HELP her. She NEVER asked this of me. She also was probably unaware of it in many ways other than I could soothe her by explaining how something really was not about her. This may have started as early as 5th or 6th grade. I know with my grandfather I could see how differently his words affected her. WHile he could critique me, about hair, clothes, etc., it never really cut me to the quick like it did with her. Just watching it bothered me to see her LET my grandfather's "idiotic" personal opinions affect her so deeply. I always tried to help her out. I also had to try to explain my actions as I grew older. When I did not continue going to church in college, I slowly realized she felt it was a direct statement about her - meaning that I "judged" her as a person and had decided that I did not approve of her and therefore would not go to our church. She NEVER directly stated this. It was something I had to uncover because I could tell she was deeply affected by my decision to move away from the church. She could not explain but because I took HER FEELINGS so seriously I took the time to understand how she felt and figure out why. Then I explained that I appreciated the church and I thought that she was a wonderful person, mother and wife and I did think the church was a positive thing for her. I also told her that while I was not going to church at the time it was more about where I was in life and not a statement about the church or her. She understood this and I felt it gave her a personal relief to know it was not about her. This may seem like a small example but I hope it gives context to some of my communication, personal approach to situations and background.
First I want to control myself because I saw my mother out of control and did not want to be that way. Second no one shamed me or forced me into a (at times) desire for perfection. I just saw that if I tried hard enough and was good enough, I could help my mom at times. Third taking time to listen for underlying emotions and being considerate of those feelings is what helped me have a successful relationship with my mom despite the typical teenage girl years of which I am mortified of some of the things that I still did to my mom despite my desire to not hurt her. Fourth, I spoke in analogies a lot to my mom and had to be explicit and wordy to get through to her at times but I always stayed with it until she would understand. (Of course I never really thought about the fact that she was also giving by being willing to stick with it also!)
At the same time I developed some compassion for others that were not like me. WHile I will stay with a story and listen and try to understand the reason why, I do not expect that of others. I most definitely appreciate it but it is not expected. In the end I loved and adored my grandfather despite some of his behavior. He really did not mean to hurt my mom. He loved his family. My dad said that Grandfather's mother was a very similar personality as my Grandfather. By the way strong women in my family back at least 3 generations and all had good marriages. Of course the men were pretty strong too!
I think this is such an interesting subject because you start to see that the same environments can have different effects on people while different environments can casue the same effects. However I think that in the latter case it can be critical to understand the differences in the development because I am sure there are still slight differences in effect due to the actual underlying issue.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Question for Corri/Fearless/whoever feels like answering, in regards to your discussion about your SO making statements about how you should feel, or why you shouldn't feel a certain way. I'll admit I have been guilty of making statements in that vein on occasion, and I can see how such statements are unwise at best, manipulative at worst. How about the following statement?
"Given that we are married, if you have no sexual desire for me, can you see how that is a problem?"
Chrome,
I know I'm a bit behind on this one but I still wanted to make a few comments of my own. Also I do not know much about your sitch so I may not capture your sitch's issue. I'm just going to write about what I think (assume :)) you mean based on the above paragraph alone. You'll have to judge and let me know what you think.
I found this to be an unwieldy question that states an issue and position without directly stating it. I did not feel like this was a genuine question. Please do not take this personally because you probably mean this genuinely. I am just say saying that I probably would not hear it that way. It comes across as a bit of a trap to "get" your wife to agree with you and your W may interpret it like that. (Please be honest with yourself and think about whether you may at least be doing it subconsciously)
So, after reading this "question" of yours, what do I think you really want to say? "I feel hurt and bothered that we do not sex. I feel like you do not have a desire for me and that is painful for me." No question really just a statement and see what she asks or how she reacts. The hard part, I assume, would be that you would put your feelings out there. Another hard part is that it is essential that you do not WANT anything from your wife after she says this. Do not expect her to comfort you, understand what you just said, jump your bones , etc. This is about you giving her knowledge. If you haven't done this before, she may not even know what to so with your statement. She may still try to switch it back to the old communication but I would stay firm and just say "this is how I feel whether you mean for me to feel this way or not" Let her soak in that statement, the honest communication and the choice she may need to look at making later.
While some might see statement of emotion as unmasculine, I actually think it is very masculine. What is masculine about being afraid of your feelings and passively emoting those feelings anyway? For me the passive emoting seems much more feminine that out right stating your emotions.
Full disclosure - I was never an LD wife so I cannot speak from that view. When the men here comment about their lack of sex, I am sypathetic because I think that sex is and should be part of a healthy marriage. At the same time there are the ups and downs as with everything in life and marriage.
By the way,I just read your original question to my friend. She is recently divorced. Her xH left her and one issue they had was his need for more sex. She did recognize it as a problem for him but he was "good" at making her feel that there was something wrong with her and by pressuring her constantly and passively. Anyway when she heard the question she scrunched her face up and said " what is he asking?" She said she immediately felt on the defensive to that statement - FWIW.
I think there may be a lot mroe potential for communication here if this has been the way you communicate with your wife. But let me know what other critical information there is with your situation.
But what is happiness except the simple harmony between a man and the life he leads? ~Albert Camus
Like NJ I grew up in a verbally volatile home with a lot of witty intellectual sparring as well as straight forward rows. No-one backed down easily, but the person with the best made "case" was generally thought of as having won. We weren't particularly sore losers about it even as kids. My first LTR was with a guy who also enjoyed the mental exercise of having a good argument about something and who would also allow himself to be convinced if you were convincing enough. Life was never peaceful in either of these situations and sometimes it could get very stressful especially if the emotional undercurrent was negative.
So when the R with xBF broke up I was ready like NJ to live in a peaceful home
Quote:
I married a quiet conflict-avoider. I felt in control. However, I missed the verbal sparring of my childhood, and found myself provoking my H. He never reacted in the way that either of my parents had, and it was confusing. So I would up the ante. This pushed my H even further away, and he would become jerky and sarcastic in return.
A huge 180 for me in my marriage has been to drop the drama. We are civil and kind and polite to each other now, and it is so different. It's a wonderful positive change, and I am still getting used to it. But I still miss some of the verbal stimulation from the past.
And I can certainly relate to this.
Fearless said: In (her xH's) family there was no strong emotions EVER shown so it seemed that he was just afraid of the unknown.
Again this is just like my H. He grew up in a home with no conflict, if his parents needed to have heated discussion they would go and sit in the car. To me this could only have increased H's fear of conflict
I do miss it. I miss being able to have a fun argument without rancour where you admire each other's skill at making the points and I miss being able to come to a negotiated settlement about something by arguing and hearing each other's case. I HATE the fact that H uses feelings to trump logic.
If someone won't engage in the debate, feels angry because you are "contradicting" them (i.e. have different POV) and then tells you you have no right to invalidate their feelings of anger .... that to me is just like a kid taking his ball home because he's losing the game. You don't do it, and everyone knows you don't do it, no-one tells the kid he's entitled to those feelings they tell him to get back to the game and stop being a sore loser.
Fran
if we can be sufficient to ourselves, we need fear no entangling webs Erica Jong
, etc. This is about you giving her knowledge. If you haven't done this before, she may not even know what to so with your statement. She may still try to switch it back to the old communication but I would stay firm and just say "this is how I feel whether you mean for me to feel this way or not" Let her soak in that statement, the honest communication and the choice she may need to look at making later.