What is next?

[MrsNOP]

Was I way off base telling her that it is a common trait of hers, to be some other place mentally during sex and during some make out moments? I said it as consideratly as I could with out glossing over the truth.

Lou, is kissing not an option? Lip locks can slow down talking.

I would suggest if you're facing her and she starts yakking that you gently put your fingers on her mouth and say "ssh, honey" or "ssh, later" with a kind tone.

Or if you aren't facing her or want a different approach, how 'bout a chuckle and something like "earth to BB, come in BB"? Of course, if she's never watched sci-fi movies that may fly right over her head. Just some thoughts.

MrsNOP -

[OG_Lou]

Your avoidance of making her unhappy sounds to me like you have a major hang-up with being the rescuer.
Born fixer here cobra. If I wasn't, the D would have been in 1987.

BTW, did she complain any of the physical discomfort that used to prevent her from having sex? What happen to that objection, or maybe was it just an excuse?
Physical discomforts:

1. Less natural lubrication so we use Astroglide.
2. Post menopausal and no HRT.
3. More UTI's as she got older till we found some steps to reduce/eliminate them.
3. Took tamoxifen for 5 years which depletes natural hormones made in the brain. Fewer hormones lead to poor vaginal lining flexibility. Typically women need more warm up time but have to want to have sex. What is needed is co operation from both partners. The H can't supply all the foreplay and direction to overcome the W lack of interest.
4. BB's basic feeling that once past a certain age almost all women don't like sex and if the H does, he has his priorities in the wrong place.
5. Other physical and mental problems,

So do you see some of the reasons I consider her predicament so carefully and feel some responsibility, to adjust my need for a sexual R with her, but not give up a sexual R all together.

BB is a little like Mrs. Choc. She wants to be chased but isn't interested in the full take down. Me on the other hand, I don't feel like chasing with out doing the takedown.

Several times this difference in sex drive feels like mother nature played tricks on both of us.

[OG_Lou]

Lou, is kissing not an option? Lip locks can slow down talking.
I do those things. Sometimes she doesn’t like much in lip action. Other times she seems to like kissing. She tells me she needs to have lots of free space around her mouth and tells me she feel claustrophobic if I kiss too long. almost a 180 from when we were dating, she couldn't get enough.

ssh, honey" or "ssh, later"
Yes, I have to do that more.

Or if you aren't facing her
I didn't know there was another position! J/K

Other positions used to be options but some of the options are off the list.

"earth to BB, come in BB"?
GOOD. I will do that!

she's never watched sci-fi movies that may fly right over her head. Just some thoughts
Strange, she watches the "Twilight Zone" but asks me how certain things in the show apply to one-another. No Sci-fi for her but I watch it after BB goes to bed or I can’t sleep sometimes.

[Lillieperl]

Lou, talking about other topics WHILE your H is fcuking you has nothing to do with whether the W likes sex or not!

If you were TALKING to me about a subject I didn't care one bean about, I STILL wouldn't interrupt you and go off on what happened at work to day or what I heard on the radio.

Are you saying that the fact that she doesn't like sex makes it okay for her to chatter about other subjects during the act?

[OG_Lou]

Lou, talking about other topics WHILE your H is fcuking you has nothing to do with whether the W likes sex or not!
I follow and agree with that.

I was thinking that how she overcomes some of dislike for sex. Yes/no/maybe, ever hear of someone zoning out because they didn't like sex?

If you were TALKING to me about a subject I didn't care one bean about, I STILL wouldn't interrupt you and go off on what happened at work to day or what I heard on the radio.
A mild form of changing the subject is common with BB. It is difficult for her to stick to the main topic.

Are you saying that the fact that she doesn't like sex makes it okay for her to chatter about other subjects during the act?
Isn't that what some people do when they don't like something, zone out? I am not saying it is right and I don't condone it.

I try to engage BB, to create an environment we can both be in and in the mood with me. It happens some time. Sometimes, instead of being some other place mentally, she falls a sleep.

I used to like to go in the hot tub with her, till the dogs had to be in on the deal and BB started to talk to them or made comments about them missing their mommy.

Sometimes when in the hot tub or on car trips, she would go on and on about something she didn't like at work, or about something else. I felt like I was being dumped on, so gradually I cut back on hot tubing, till we quit all together. I said hot tubing wasn't that enjoyable anymore and BB said that was the only time she felt she had my full attention.

Are you saying that the fact that she doesn't like sex makes it okay for her to chatter about other subjects during the act?
It is OK to talk about other things, but not to the point where if I kiss her, it feels like the outside event chatter is more important than being with me.

When she was in her shopping addiction mode, she would come to bed if I turned on the QVC program in the bedroom. I thought, she gets what she wants and I do too. At first I didn't mind her watching and the program didn't bother me. The years up to her spending $5,200 a year had me in QVC or me lady, decide now mode.

I was too passive then to tell her no TV. She watched the program about 10% of the time we were making out with me doing most of the making. That was 3 and 4 years ago. Bad habit, right.

It would be so nice if BB was there physically and mentally, and enjoyed sex. I often wish she would push back or lean into my moves. The 80/20 deal we have going on now, well it is better than nothing and sometimes I think not worth the effort.

[Cobra]

Lou,

I don’t get you at all. You complain mightily about BB and when I give you some ways you can break out of the standoff you’re in, you start to give out excuses for her. What do those 5 physical discomforts have to do with restoring intimacy in your marriage?

So do you see some of the reasons I consider her predicament so carefully and feel some responsibility, to adjust my need for a sexual R with her, but not give up a sexual R all together.

No, I don’t see any reason whatsoever how her “predicament” prevents you from breaking down your barriers, building intimacy and having more sex. Sorry, don’t see any connection at all. She just had sex with you, didn’t she? Did she complain or did you?

BB is a little like Mrs. Choc. She wants to be chased but isn't interested in the full take down. Me on the other hand, I don't feel like chasing with out doing the takedown.

Several times this difference in sex drive feels like mother nature played tricks on both of us.

Stop trying to find someone or something else to blame for your passivity. If you can’t see where you are standing in your own way, there is little more I can do to help you. Best of luck

[Lillieperl]

ever hear of someone zoning out because they didn't like sex?

Lou, I have 'zoned out' during sex... I'm not talking about zoning out. I'm talking about her chattering out loud about different non-pertinent subjects DURING THE ACT.

If I were zoned out during sex, I might think about something else, or fantasize about something else, but I wouldn't talk OUT LOUD.

[OG_Lou]

Reply to Cobra:
What do those 5 physical discomforts have to do with restoring intimacy in your marriage?

Those 5 things reduce the pleasure and/or increase the discomfort for most all women. Maybe Shmagic wants to chime in here a little. I remember her saying intercourse on a physical level was a problem for her

If you want first hand information from a female’s POV have a private or public exchange with someone menopausal, that has had a hysterectomy, had breast cancer, took anti-cancer drugs for 5 years, and can’t take anything that contains hormones, including bio-identical hormones.

No, I don’t see any reason whatsoever how her “predicament” prevents you from breaking down your barriers, building intimacy and having more sex. Sorry, don’t see any connection at all. She just had sex with you, didn’t she? Did she complain or did you?

1.The connection is reduced/lost when physical problems are introduced into the R.
2. I have moved in a direction to just do it, got thicker skinned, ignoring some of BB verbal resistance I would have really been concerned with in the past. I am less hesitant about pushing through her resistance.
3. I am doing the hand holding even if BB pulls back some because I want to, instead because I want to get her in a better mood

Sure BB had sex with me. I am not complaining about the fact she did or didn’t. I want more than tab "A" in slot "B" sex. It started out good but wasn't going well after a while. Same stuff, different day, BTDT but I want different outcomes.

I wanted to give a picture that things were going well up to a point, and that point was when the flow changed directions.

Maybe I over emphasized the disconnect/disappointment too much. I wanted to say to the readers that I was disappointed the sex wasn’t better but also say or imply I wasn’t going to continue having disconnected sex like I used to put up with at times.

I wanted to show I can do something different by being willing to end a session early and let BB know being disconnected was something I didn’t like.

I was looking for input, did I over do the termination process or over do letting BB know why I ended the sex earlier than normal.

I was giving an example to other people what it takes to forge through one’s own fears and what might be in store for them if and when they make moves to overcome their own and their partner’s resistance.

Several times this difference in sex drive feels like Mother Nature played tricks on both of us.
Just letting people know, as have others, people encounter problems in life, the older one is, the more sexual problems there are in the general population. Some of the problems might be a part of your R someday. Hopefully not. Just a heads-up.

Lil
Lou said ever hear of someone zoning out because they didn't like sex?
I wasn’t saying it is right, to zone out, but that I could imagine it happens for some people regularly, especially is they don’t like sex.

I might think about something else, or fantasize about something else, but I wouldn't talk OUT LOUD.
I agree, BB shouldn’t have been chattering out loud about different non-pertinent subjects DURING THE ACT.

I will do some more re-direction or something to let BB know those outside topics distract from the moment.

Thanks all for your input. I have to work the R with BB, one step at a time.

Lou

[Lillieperl]

Lou wrote

I wanted to show I can do something different by being willing to end a session early and let BB know being disconnected was something I didn’t like.

I thought you said you didn't want to stop mid-act because you didn't want to hurt her feelings. I'm saying that chattering during the act shows that she has no consideration for your feelings. I'm NOT saying you're justified in hurting her back, but you certainly are justified in ending the act and saying something (nicely) like, "Let's try this again when you're more into it. I'm just going to take care of myself right now so I can sleep." And then either MB right there or go in the other room and do it.

How is she going to know that her behavior is inappropriate unless you give her some kind of signal?


Re the 5 things. Since I'm post-menopausal (since 1999), I feel qualified to comment.

First, Lou, I disagree with this statement: Those 5 things reduce the pleasure and/or increase the discomfort for most all women .

1. Less natural lubrication so we use Astroglide.
I think everyone should use Astroglide. The stuff is miraculous. I know that for some women/couples there's a feeling of failure if she doesn't produce "enough" natural lubrication. Phooey! Buy the stuff by the gallon. It's fabulous. I have used it (when the opportunity presented) for decades.


2. Post menopausal and no HRT.
I'm post menopausal and also do not take HRT and have no intention of doing so. I haven't noticed any changes in my desire level or physical "abilities." I have longer/stronger O's than I EVER had in my 20's-30's (even when self-induced). Maybe I'm an oddball this way...

3. More UTI's as she got older till we found some steps to reduce/eliminate them.
Don't have UTI's so can't address this.

3. Took tamoxifen for 5 years which depletes natural hormones made in the brain. Fewer hormones lead to poor vaginal lining flexibility. Typically women need more warm up time but have to want to have sex. What is needed is co operation from both partners. The H can't supply all the foreplay and direction to overcome the W lack of interest.
No experience with this either.

4. BB's basic feeling that once past a certain age almost all women don't like sex and if the H does, he has his priorities in the wrong place.
This is absolute crap. It is HER opinion and HER experience, but crap WRT the general population-- and that's MY opinion based on me and my peer girlfriends.

5. Other physical and mental problems
Self-absorption, tunnel vision, emotional stinginess...?

Ill health on the part of one partner definitely changes the intimate zone of the marriage. I experienced this with my late H. The more I look back on that, the more I wish we could have overcome both our tendencies to pull away because his stuff was getting more and more scary/exhausting.

[MJontheMend]

So, BB talks about how the hospital eliminated parking places by enlarging the emergency room.

How 'bout saying "Yeah, baby, I'm soooo enlarged it's a f*cking emergency. I'm going to park my car and I don't care if there's a legal space. Gonna ram right through those concrete barriers so buckle up, BB."