Other Woman's Perspective

[Two Sided Coin]

When my husband walked away in 2004 (troubles in our relationship as well as an having an OW), I came to these boards to get insight and help on how I could fix my marriage. I went through all the heart break and pain that everyone one here is going through.

In the end, my WA spouse had made up his mind and stuck to it - we were divorced and have not had contact since then. It's taken me all those years to understand that I was fighting to keep a man that I probably -never- could have grown and flourished with if we stayed together; I'll always love him, but I honestly think I'm better off to have lost him.

Earlier this year, I went to work at a company where I met an incredible man that touches my heart in an intense, honest, sincere way no other human being ever has before. It was a physical and emotional connection unlike anything I've ever experienced.

Here's the punchline - Unfortunately, he's been with his girlfriend for 10 years and they have a daughter together.

You'd think having been there before and being in his girlfriend's shoes, I'd walk away as quickly as I could possibly move. Unfortunately, not so, because no matter WHAT side of the coin you're on, emotions cloud good sense.

According to him, he's simply fallen in love with another woman. As instensely and passionately as he feels for the woman he's ALREADY been with for so long. He can't say whom he loves more, or which experiences are more dear to him, because he feels it's a 'dead heat' for both of us. He just happens to have an intense connection with two people and is unable to decide which he should be with.

Obviously, things beween them have deteriorated because she feels very betrayed that he's in love with someone other than her. It's natural to feel as though YOU'VE done or not something to cause an affair, and my heart goes out to her.

In my defense, I've told him over and over again that I wish for him to be happy. I have never and will never ask him to leave her for me. If he needs to work on his relationship with his girlfriend so that the can stay together, I will not stop him - I will support his choice 100%. If he feels that working on his relationship with her is like being in a hamster wheel (lots of leg work and going nowhere fast), then I will support his choice to move out on his own and will be willing to have a dating relationship and see where it goes.

The problem is, folks, that picking one path is going to make a craving and yearning for the path he didn't go down.


I think my point in posting here is simply so that folks can understand that not every Other Woman is a souless hussy out to wreck homes. There are those of us that simply have had the luck of being in the right place at the wrong time. I'm definitely not condoning cheating, but sometimes things set into motion and it's easy to talk the talk of resisting temptation, but not so easy to walk the walk, so to speak.

[MuddleThrough]

TSC,

Sorry for your experience in your marriage, that must have been painful for you. I'm glad to hear that you resolved things in a way you seem happy with.

Thank you for sharing your perspective. I don't think many people here actually believe that OP are out to cause destruction. Rather I think we are generally of the opinion that the OP is convinced by the strength of the emotions that they can live with the destructive consequences of their actions. It certainly seems that you view things this way to some extent. It also seems that you are trying to absolve yourself of blame (and therefore guilt) by saying that you're not pushing your BF to break up his family. Your words say so, but your presence and actions say otherwise.

Are you in counseling?

Do you understand on a deep level why you are pursuing someone who's currently involved? This has nothing to do with the person you are pursuing and everything to do with you.

Do you think you could extricate yourself from this situation to allow him to come to a responsible solution without external pressure?

Thank you again for sharing your perspective.

[MrsNOP]

In my defense, I've told him over and over again that I wish for him to be happy. I have never and will never ask him to leave her for me. If he needs to work on his relationship with his girlfriend so that the can stay together, I will not stop him - I will support his choice 100%.

Do you realize that this "belief" is usually included in most affairs? In fact, many wayward spouses will tell the betrayed spouse how much their affair partner wishes them and their marriage well - IF that's what they want.

You're avoiding making the appropriate choice by throwing it back onto him. And in doing so you are making the choice to keep the affair going. And you're couching it in "I won't stop you", but you certainly aren't helping either.

Remove yourself entirely. Give the mother of his child a fighting chance.

MrsNOP -

[Two Sided Coin]

MuddleThrough -

I don't think it's a "blame game". We are all personally responsible for our own actions. Rather than absolve myself of blame, I simply point out that no one in MY sitch has been coherced or convinced into doing anything they are not 100% cognizant of and agreeable to. His choices are his choices and I have no power of them. My big "thing" is that I don't want to be with ANYONE that I have to convince wants to be with me, anyway - so I just drop the rope and give him breathing room.

There's an overhwelming theme that all spouses that have cheated don't know their own minds and feelings. They've done it simply because their first relationship was lacking some how. I've seen a lot of people get dispondant on these boards, insisting their their spouse couldn't -actually- be in love with the OP. Not too many people (from my reading, back then and again now) see that perhaps their SO really DOES have an accurate picture of what their emotions are, and are being honest with themselves. That, just maybe, someone never expected that lightning bolt of intense love to hit twice, but SUPRIRSE! It has, through NO ONE'S fault!


As for MrsNOP's suggestion that I remove myself entirely...he doesn't want that. We did try to have no contact for about a week, but HE decided that no contact between us made things worse all around. HE feels that talking to me and working on OUR feelings for each other helps him focus more on trying to find an answer to his confusion as to which way to turn.

In fact, many wayward spouses will tell the betrayed spouse how much their affair partner wishes them and their marriage well - IF that's what they want.

Yeah, I do realize that. And in how many percent of cases is it TRUE!? Seriously, why does it have to come down to two people FIGHTING over one spouse, when in many cases that's NOT what it's all about? Is it SO hard to believe that someone is actually willing to gracefully let someone else go if that's what THEIR heart is telling them needs to happen?


I'm not sure these perceptions are entirely fair, I guess, and that's why I felt the need to speak up.

[MrsNOP]

Yeah, I do realize that. And in how many percent of cases is it TRUE!? Seriously, why does it have to come down to two people FIGHTING over one spouse, when in many cases that's NOT what it's all about? Is it SO hard to believe that someone is actually willing to gracefully let someone else go if that's what THEIR heart is telling them needs to happen?

I'm not sure these perceptions are entirely fair, I guess, and that's why I felt the need to speak up.

Morals that change dependent on what best meets *your wants* aren't morals.

You are allowing your feelings to determine right and wrong.

You are willing to let your hormones and brain chemicals to over write what you *know* is wrong.

Morals that depend on what your adulterous lover wants aren't morals either.

Where are *your* morals in all this?

My heart goes out to the abandoned common law wife and the child she bore this man.

That you have gone through this pain yourself and then allow yourself to justify being the agent of that pain to another woman is reprehensible.

Is it SO hard to believe that someone is actually willing to gracefully let someone else go if that's what THEIR heart is telling them needs to happen?

*You* do what is right regardless of what someone else's heart is telling them to do.

If you had any compassion at all, you would cut off all contact with this man and give his existing relationship a chance to recover.

Surely you can see the sheer selfish blindness of coming here to justify adultery to people who are currently suffering from its effects? Doesn't that give you some idea of how off your current thinking is?

MrsNOP -

[MuddleThrough]

Rather than absolve myself of blame, I simply point out that no one in MY sitch has been coherced or convinced into doing anything they are not 100% cognizant of and agreeable to.

In saying this are you agreeing to be the reason for the breakup of your BF's daughter's family? Are you choosing to influence the situation such that this little girl's family is destroyed for the emotional gratification of you and her father? How much coersion is going to be necessary to befriend this little girl in the future?

His choices are his choices and I have no power of them.

True, but you can choose to be in a position to influence his choices. It seems you are absolving yourself of this by saying he's the one choosing.

My big "thing" is that I don't want to be with ANYONE that I have to convince wants to be with me, anyway - so I just drop the rope and give him breathing room.

I see, so you want the ego benefits of being chosen over his wife, just don't want to be responsible for convincing him. Let's be honest here, if winning out over the competition weren't a factor here, you wouldn't still be involved.

There's an overhwelming theme that all spouses that have cheated don't know their own minds and feelings. They've done it simply because their first relationship was lacking some how. I've seen a lot of people get dispondant on these boards, insisting their their spouse couldn't -actually- be in love with the OP. Not too many people (from my reading, back then and again now) see that perhaps their SO really DOES have an accurate picture of what their emotions are, and are being honest with themselves. That, just maybe, someone never expected that lightning bolt of intense love to hit twice, but SUPRIRSE! It has, through NO ONE'S fault!

You may be correct in saying that LBSs don't want to face the fact that the emotions their cheating spouses have for the OP are real. However, the fact is that they have these feelings and they are acting on them. They know that they feel stage 1 romantic love. This is not in question for me. What is in question is a matter of integrity (in the sense of wholeness). People that cheat are not involved in the affair relationship with personal integrity. Their emotions rule the day DESPITE their better judgement. This is not a responsible way to guide your life, not to mention those of family members. Yes, I'm sure you accurately know what your feelings are, as does my W, but they are not all that matters, and looking at these feelings in such a romantic way is almost delusional.

As for MrsNOP's suggestion that I remove myself entirely...he doesn't want that.

I suggested this too, and still do.

We did try to have no contact for about a week, but HE decided that no contact between us made things worse all around. HE feels that talking to me and working on OUR feelings for each other helps him focus more on trying to find an answer to his confusion as to which way to turn.

What about YOUR choice? You keep pointing to his choices, but he's not here, you are. Of course it FEELS worse to not have the affair going on, to not be feeling the rush of brain chemicals. I like this to a smoker saying "I'll have this cigarette and decide whether I want to keep smoking or not." Feelings are not all there is to a relationship. In fact, in almost every relationship the feelings subside and disappear. So trying to base decision about the future on the way you feel now is a bit absurd.

Feelings are responses. They are signals about what is going on around you. The feelings you both are feeling now are unquestionably influenced by the relationship your BF has with his daughter's mother. He may attribute it all to you, but he is demonizing the relationship he has with her and at the same time haloing your relationship. He is not looking at things realistically, and I have little doubt that if he decides to leave his family and commit to you he will experience buyer's remorse somewhere down the line. He will realize that it's not YOU he liked so much, but his own ideals projected onto you. Unmet needs that you are meeting make you seem like a godsend, a superwoman. You're not, you're a human, just like the woman he's cheating on. Eventually he'll see that in you too. Do you want to be back where you were in your last relationship? You're headed down that path. You're choosing to ignore red flags because of the short term benefits.

Yeah, I do realize that. And in how many percent of cases is it TRUE!?

Every affair couple thinks they are special.

Is it SO hard to believe that someone is actually willing to gracefully let someone else go if that's what THEIR heart is telling them needs to happen?

Yes. It is. It's called impulse control. It's kind of important for successful social living. Otherwise the rapist would have the perfect excuse ("my heart told me to do it") or the kidnapper, etc., etc. Listen, I'm not going to say that your heart should not have a great deal to do with how you live your life, but following your heart DESPITE your better judgment is self betrayal. You have a responsibility to be a whole person, anything short of this is dysfunction.

I'm not sure these perceptions are entirely fair, I guess, and that's why I felt the need to speak up.

I'm glad you did speak up, and I certainly respect your doing so. What I disagree with here is you impression of what our perceptions are. I think you are a great person and I think it would be terribly tragic if you were to waste however many years of your life it takes you to recognize that the red flags you saw meant something. I think you deserve the respect of being the only person in someone's life. Perhaps this guy really is the guy for you, and you for him. The way it's happening is not the way. Circumstances are not right. Maybe if you were to end contact with him the circumstances would work themselves out. Maybe you'll get the chance to know how you both feel without the baggage, without influences on your feelings that don't belong in a monogomous relationship. Either way, you will be showing this man TRUE love by giving him the space (whether he feels he needs it or not) to figure out what he needs to do for himself.

[runningoutoftime]

That, just maybe, someone never expected that lightning bolt of intense love to hit twice, but SUPRIRSE! It has, through NO ONE'S fault!

Well, if that's true, and there are other people you could feel intense love for, why waste your time and feelings on someone who is already involved in another relationship and in the midst of raising a child? As you've pointed out, you can always fall in love with more than one person. These feelings are obviously transient. I don't mean to sound flippant, but would that take too much effort? Is it just easier to go with this guy because he's convenient? Or the feelings at this moment are just too intense?

Just because you haven't "coerced" him into a relationship (I'm sure you haven't discouraged it), you do have a choice who you choose. Why bother with someone who is torn between you and another person? If he chooses you, he will come into the relationship with a huge amount of baggage and grief over the woman he has history and a child with, and who he will have left behind... or will "cheat with" while supposedly with you. If he loves her like you mention he does (he loves two women) that's almost certainly going to happen. He has had strong feelings for her before and will most likely have them again. My guess is you have a good chance of being part of a triangle for maybe a loooong time. Wouldn't you want more out of a relationship? Why share? Gosh, if I were single I'd want to be with someone who was free to love me entirely. Aren't you worth more?

[iluvme]

Two wrongs don't make a right. Obviously, this man is taken but he and you are choosing to destroy two other lives. No matter how you justify it, it is still wrong. You are enabling him and he doesn't have his morals in the right place. Would he want his little girl to go thru the same pain when she's married and have kids? I don't think anyone would wish this on her.

Do you love this man enough to let him go and do no contact?

[whatisis]

Sorry to jump in so late but you wrote "He just happens to have an intense connection with two people" No one just happens to have intense connections, those kind of connections take time and effort. The intensity is called infatuation and ALWAYS feels like you've found the one and only. In order for that intense connection to germinate and grow it takes time and watering. People aren't just knocked out of their socks one day, they see it coming and let it come! My W said "no one planned for this to happen" and I said "I guess aliens just sucked your brain out of your head and you had no choice but to cheat on me". Don't allow feelings to legitimize something that you know is wrong. When you say you will never ask him to leave his girlfriend or stop him if he says he wants to work on their R, you are trying to bargain with yourself, "See I am a moral person, look at what I am sacrificing, I won't be responsible for anyone else's pain by doing this" It's you playing mind games with yourself, understandably. It still amazes me how good people (I will assume you are a good person) will allow themselves to get tangled up in such situations that can ONLY result in pain for themselves and any others touched by it. It might be good to know that about 97% of couples in A's NEVER end up getting married and of the 3% who do over 90% end up in divorce. Frightening odds, like your chances?

[brandnewday]

Sometimes we need to be the bigger person.
We need to find our moral compass and regardless of how good or how right these intense feelings may "seem", we need to do what is right.

You are going to be labeled the homewrecker and your lover's daughter will forever be scarred by your relationship with her Father because of the devastation it will cause to their family.

But then again, what do you care?
You only care about your happiness.

I guess when your Husband cheated on you there was no pain on your part, no anguish, no feelings?

Have you forgotten so quickly how you felt when you found out about the OW in your marriage?

It is nice you wanted to share your perspective here, BUT you need to remember that you are posting in a place that is full of hurt and wounded people, most of them having had their lives turned upside down because of an affair.

You will not gain much sympathy here and will more then likely be the scapegoat for all of the pain people like you cause to the LBS.

Although it was quite brave of you to post, I don't think anyone really cares much about what the OW/OM thinks. They just want them out of their own marriages and to leave their family alone to heal from all of the damage caused.

Do the right thing....

Search your heart....

Walk away.