Muddle, this sitch seems like a huge control struggle in which your S is the main casualty! I understand you don't feel that separation is the right choice, fair enough. But, what would happen if you said to her "I disagree with separation but if it is what you feel you must do then I will meet my obligations to our son and not stand in your way". Would that be violating your ethics? What does she need from you? If it is your blessing and how right you think her choice is, then of course she won't get it but otherwise what else? I have concerns about your W blowing one day and something terrible happening. What do you think?
There are elements there, I agree. As far as separation goes, I am not against it too much, but we would lose so much. I think part of the reason I'm so against separation/divorce is that we would be destitute. How would this help my son?
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, finances are important and in the midst of W's romantic fantasies that touch of reality often seems lacking. I know when my W says "if you want to leave, then leave" it maddens me because it isn't that simple! There are so many things to take into account, it's not just something that one person should impulsively decide and lay on everybody else. The kids need more than just two people doing whatever they feel like because it feels right or good. That's childish nonsense. So I understand your frustration in all this. Just because she wants it to be so doesn't make it such! Because you recognize this, you are the bad guy. Tough place to be. BTW, your son is right, you are right and she is wrong (but I'm kind of biased)
Today at lunch I spoke with my W about the plans for the evening. She had mentioned to me on Tuesday/Wednesday that her mother was having a party on Friday and that she was planning to attend. Great. Good to know. Sounds like fun. During this afternoon's discussion it became clear that W expected me to pick up our son from MIL's house. Not a problem, she's about a mile away from us. I'll swing by after work. I told W that I was riding my bike back to work so she should expect me around 6 pm (had to go home, get in the car and drive over there). She got upset and told me that was too late. I told her then that I would leave work about 30 minutes early to accomodate her. She didn't think this was good enough. She told me she wanted me to drive AND leave early.
One of the main reasons I was choosing to ride was because W was going out and I wouldn't get the chance to go to the gym tonight. I also only rode once this week, and my goal was 3 times a week. So anyway, W started to talk about how I don't care about her needs. Her needs don't matter. I only am concerned with what I want to do. I told her that I was interested in compromise, and that's what I was doing by leaving work early. I also told her that I was not prepared to do anything more because I didn't get any advance notice that she wanted something from me. She got upset and started telling me why I should have known she needed my help: "Every other times I went to a party at my mom's I have needed you to come pick him up early, right?" Not sure this is true, I don't remember. "You should have known I needed you to because every other time I did." "Why don't you use your brain and figure stuff like this out."
The way I see it, she didn't ask for what she wanted and rather than be wrong about something, she has to point the finger at me. She faults me for not being attentive to her needs. Sounds like one of the main issues in our relationship. So she went on and on talking about how her needs don't matter, how she doesn't matter. I told her I had to go, then rode my bike back to work. As I walked upstairs she was shouting about how much of an a$$hole I am and how she can't believe she married me. A year ago I would not have rode my bike. I would have done whatever I could have to accomodate her. Now that I'm not doing so she's upset. Is there a better way of going about negotiating stuff like this? Is there something I'm missing here?
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
Muddle, you know you tried to meet both parties needs, what she wants (in my estimation)is a partner with no needs whose world revolves around hers. Is that reasonable? Nope! You worked towards a compromise and SHE felt that wasn't good enough and wasn't willing to negotiate. Tough nooggies (is that a word?)!Oh, I forgot, real love means never having to negotiate Wow, if I could count how often I've heard "you should have known..." It's as if we are supposed to be focused compeltely on their world and have no needs of our own. Our minds should be completely focused on them! Now, something to ponder, probably by stating that you were unwilling to do any more than what you suggested because she didn't tell you earlier set up the "you should have known" exchange. Basically you said "you're wrong" and she responded with "no, you're wrong". Sounds like the old cycle repeating as you mentioned. How do you disrupt the cycle next time? It's worth thinking about.
It is worth thinking about. I want to make it clear that I believe in order to be respectful of my time, she ask in advance. She expected me to drop everything for her without getting my input on this. What if I had a meeting this evening? I should set the expectation on what my participation is in something, and she on hers.
Yes, this does come down to a right/wrong issue. Not where I want it to be. Thanks for your input here WI. What would you have said in this situation?
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
I think what happened, Muddle was that you said "I'm not willing to do anymore because you didn't give me advance notice" so it comes across as "I am punishing you for your misbehaviour". What you want is perfectly reasonable. I might have said "I was really looking forward to biking today, in future could you tell me a day or so ahead so I can plan my time accordingly" Would it have made a difference, who knows. I think the reason you didn't want to compromise was not because she didn't give you warning (though still a valid expectation) but because you wanted to ride your bike and she was attempting to thwart that in favour of her own needs. I'm just thinking out loud here, I wonder if you had of bent this time but made clear that you need warning in the future, would that have been acceptable to you? You would be meeting her need this time but also putting forward boundaries for the future. I also wonder if it's worth bringing this up with her a little bit later. "Hey, that discussion didn't go so well, both of us were unhappy with the outcome, how could we avoid this in the future? Could we plan things in a different way that works for both of us?" She might have a suggestion (like stick the calender up your butt )and you can put forward how you would really value getting a day or two advance notice. I know, I'm a dreamer but you gotta be something!
I get your punishment point. It was sort of a justification for my decision. I think a big issue I have had with my own satisfaction in this relationship is that I have not met my own needs enough. I all too often accomodated her at my expense. I decided that this is something I needed to change. I want to do it in a diplomatic way, but I don't think caving is the answer. She'll just push away at the guilt button until I cave next time if I do.
Perhaps taking this up with her later would be wise. My concern is that she'll treat this as she often treats our issues, by refusing to find solutions, but rather say something like "this is one of the many reasons we don't work". Mentioning fixing or solving seems to back her into that corner. It makes us adversaries. Don't know what I can do.
Thanks for your thoughts!
“No problem can be solved from the same level of consciousness that created it. ” – Albert Einstein
I hear ya, Muddle. True love means never having to fix anything either! Pure romantic clap trap but somehow our S's seem to believe it It's all supposed to be natural and spontaneous just like the rest of our lives are LOL! Hey, when you say "She'll just push away at the guilt button until I cave next time if I do" and "My concern is that she'll treat this as she often treats our issues" aren't you placing a pre-determined outcome on the interaction? So, lets say you do go ahead and bring it up and what you say happens, how would that change anything in your sitch? Would it cause irrepairable harm? No. Maybe what to do, if you choose to do anything (and I am not advocating one way or the other) is to approach it in a different manner, try a different method of bringing up the subject thereby throwing her off her game plan cuz I'm sure you guys have this present routine down to a fine art form by now! Again, just something to consider. BTW after all this time posting together you should have known I'd say this That's why we just don't work Muddle!
It's all supposed to be natural and spontaneous just like the rest of our lives are LOL!